2013 New Jersey Devils (Team/Player Discussion)- Offseason FA and trade talk Part V

[BrodeursCups]

And not only did Parise screw the Devs by leaving, but he also screwed his future production. He won't sniff 70pts again in his career. It's a situation where the player and team would've been better off remaining together. Duh, right?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I hate how he keeps bringing up the penalties. yes, they blow. they are irrational.

but add them into the original trade.

Niklas Bergfors
Johnny Oduya
Patrice Cormier
1st round pick (penalty)
3rd round pick (Penalty)
$3 million dollars (penalty)
1st round pick
2nd round pick

for

SIGNED Ilya Kovalchuk
Jon Merrill

I still make that trade.

 

[JimEIV]

Sure the 2 years at $6 million were a bargain, but the flip side of that bargain will be upon us in the not to distant when we are paying a 34 yr old guy $11 million dollars.

But I don't bemoan the contract, I understand overpaying players is a part of professional sports. And these overpayments are a matter of degree, and I don't see Kovy's deal as egregious.

Who's contract is more egregious? And who's egregious contract will still exist after the next two amnesty buyouts?

You can bet your life savings kovalchuk's will still be there... but DiPetro, Luo go, Richards,

 

[Scott04]

Sure the 2 years at $6 million were a bargain, but the flip side of that bargain will be upon us in the not to distant when we are paying a 34 yr old guy $11 million dollars.

But I don't bemoan the contract, I understand overpaying players is a part of professional sports. And these overpayments are a matter of degree, and I don't see Kovy's deal as egregious.

Ovechkin will be making $10 mil a year when he's 34 (in 7 years) with the deal he signed in 2008. Lecavalier will be making $10 mil a year when he's 34 in the deal he signed in 2009. Thats how contracts were structured in that time frame when they were signed. The only guys that aren't making such extreme numbers at the age of 34 are the ones that were more cap circumvention with the extreme divebacks and were let go (Zetterberg making $7.5 at 34, Hossa making $7.9 mil at 34, etc)

 

[JimEIV]

I hate how he keeps bringing up the penalties. yes, they blow. they are irrational.

but add them into the original trade.

Niklas Bergfors
Johnny Oduya
Patrice Cormier
1st round pick (penalty)
3rd round pick (Penalty)
$3 million dollars (penalty)
1st round pick
2nd round pick

for

SIGNED Ilya Kovalchuk
Jon Merrill

I still make that trade.

That is basically your entire pipeline for the next 3 to 5 years right there ...sorry, talk all you want Kovalchuk is not worth that price.

 

[devilsblood]

He's making $4 million over cap in salary on a $60 million payroll, bfd. Every team's star player has years like that under the old system in their prime where they're making a couple million over cap salary. Parise and Suter are getting $6.5 million over cap in salary the next couple of years lol.

And if the Devils had offered the $6.6 million contract initally I doubt they get dinged to the extent they did on the penalty. They didn't get dinged the penalty for that, they got dinged the penalty for trying to get him at $6 million per over a longer term. And for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and paying the piper for other shady cap issues in the past (Matvichuk, Mogilny).

If anything the penalty was more than what they actually gave up for him in the trade.

The next 4 years he's making almost $5mil over his cap hit. In relation to $60 mil that is significant. And certainly a darn good player can be had for $5 mil.

And again I don't blame Kovy for the contract. That's on the team, but let's not act like the $11 million he'll be making over the next 5 years is a bargain.

 

[apice3*]

Brodeur is 15th among goalies in terms of salary and 42nd out of 50 goaltenders in terms of save%.

#RuiningTheDevils

 

[NJDevs26]

The next 4 years he's making almost $5mil over his cap hit. In relation to $60 mil that is significant. And certainly a darn good player can be had for $5 mil.

And again I don't blame Kovy for the contract. That's on the team, but let's not act like the $11 million he'll be making over the next 5 years is a bargain.

You're also tacitly assuming they'll remain a floor team or close to it the next five years with the same $60 million payroll. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. If they do then yes the $11 million will become an issue.

btw Zajac is making $2.2 million UNDER his cap number next year, so that makes up a chunk of the difference for a season. I ain't getting into two and three years from now, finances/cap/other contracts could change that equation by then with the lack of players under contract after next year.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Oh make no mistake, I do honestly believe Kovalchuk is a terrible hockey player who is ruining the Devils organization... and make no mistake I do believe anyone 6'3'' 230lbs avoids body contact at all cost is a pos...and make no mistake I do believe that any player that constantly puts his team in difficult situations with bad decisions doesn't belong in New Jersey....

The fun part for me is you'll's denial of these facts and the the fact that you'll defend this sorry excuse of player no matter what....you guys can see Kovalchuk commit twice as many turnovers as anyone in the league and make an excuse for it.. we can have the worst pp in the league and you'll blame whoever the coach is running the pp...we can miss the playoffs for the first time 2 of 3 years in the last 20+ years and the reasons will be many but never the guy who can't score an even strength goalwhile playing 26 minutes a game.

Of ****ing course it's the teams fault!!!! Who's fault is it? Bettman's? The arbitrators? Like they offered the idiotic contract?

I have asked you this before Jim, but you conveniently never answered...why do you continue to be a fan of an organization that so clearly does not meet your standards in regards to who its' franchise players are? Because that's what Kovy is, one of our franchise players.

This is not a rhetorical or sarcastic question. I genuinely want to know (and I think I probably speak for many other posters in this regard as well). It is truly baffling and I think it's what frustrates so many here.

I'm not even going to get into how flawed your opinion on the entire matter is. I think the fact that you are literally the only member on this entire board with such extreme negative views on this topic speaks for itself.

 

[JimEIV]

Brodeur is 15th among goalies in terms of salary and 42nd out of 50 goaltenders in terms of save%.

#RuiningTheDevils

Your attempt at sarcasism is dumb.Brodeur has a lot to show. ... What record, championship, league award, name on cup does Kovalchuk have to show for his massive salary? And that IS the point.

 

[devilsblood]

Who's contract is more egregious? And who's egregious contract will still exist after the next two amnesty buyouts?

You can bet your life savings kovalchuk's will still be there... but DiPetro, Luo go, Richards,

Figure either of the boys up in Minny will be less likely to earn their $$$ at the age of 35 then Kovy will. And Lecavalier making $10 mil at 35? 8.5 at 36?

There will still be plenty of overpayed guys out there even after the amnesty dust has settled.

 

[Scott04]

Your attempt at sarcasism is dumb.Brodeur has a lot to show. ... What record, championship, league award, name on cup does Kovalchuk have to show for his massive salary? And that IS the point.

The same ones that Parise has to show for his massive salary.

What do I win?

 

[guitarguyvic]

That is basically your entire pipeline for the next 3 to 5 years right there ...sorry, talk all you want Kovalchuk is not worth that price.

Bergfors and Cormier turned out to be busts. A 3rd and 2nd rounder is hit or miss, but can be replaced via other trades. Kovy himself is a first rounder.

That leaves you with one first rounder that you probably can't replace. Hardly "the pipeline for the next 3-5 years".

 

[Scott04]

Kovy won a Rocket Richard once.

 

[Czech Trio]

That is basically your entire pipeline for the next 3 to 5 years right there ...sorry, talk all you want Kovalchuk is not worth that price.

You don't make that trade and what does this team look like? No elite forward. But yeah maybe the 1st rounder will become the next stud (or Corrente) and I'm sure Bergfors and Cormier would have been stellar on the Devils.

The Kovalchuk trade is a good one. You underestimate what Kovalchuk does for this team.

 

[njdevils1982]

with new mods and all how is this time bomb still ticking well after a grand of posts.

 

[njdevils1982]

Kovy won a Rocket Richard once.

*tied for one with a current rag mistake and a cup slutty

 

[Scott04]

*tied for one with a rag dbag and a (now pens) cup slutty

In today's terms, yes. But... Nash was on Columbus at the time... if that matters?

#StillCounts

 

[BrodeursCups]

The same ones that Parise has to show for his massive salary.

What do I win?

Parise started off scorching hot with 9pts in his first 5 games. His final 43 games he had 29pts and was invisible for long stretches. I watched most of the Minny games this year because I still enjoy watching the guy play, but it was a largely mediocre season. When he slows down its not going to be pretty because he will create far less turnovers on the forecheck and his shot is garbage.

And that was followed up by him no-showing another playoff series..

 

[njdevils1982]

In today's terms, yes. But... Nash was on Columbus at the time... if that matters?

#StillCounts

never liked nash to begin with. iginla was likeable. now....no thanks. seen bourque do it......had enough of that crap.

 

[Scott04]

never liked nash to begin with. iginla was likeable. now....no thanks. seen bourque do it......had enough of that crap.

I didn't mind Nash when he was in Columbus... mostly because it was Columbus and my attitude was "who cares what goes on there?" Now though it should be obvious how I would feel. I wouldn't have the same disdain for Iginla if he was traded to a different team, but meh. I'm indifferent there too because it didn't work out for him. We'll see where he signs next for what kind of an opinion I would form there.

 

[NJDevs26]

I hate how he keeps bringing up the penalties. yes, they blow. they are irrational.

but add them into the original trade.

Niklas Bergfors
Johnny Oduya
Patrice Cormier
1st round pick (penalty)
3rd round pick (Penalty)
$3 million dollars (penalty)
1st round pick
2nd round pick

for

SIGNED Ilya Kovalchuk
Jon Merrill

I still make that trade.

See to me the trade and the penalties are two seperate entities. Lumping them together as one is just another way to make the Kovy acquisition/contract look worse than it is. We got the penalties for a contract that doesn't even exist.

 

[njdevils1982]

I didn't mind Nash when he was in Columbus... mostly because it was Columbus and my attitude was "who cares what goes on there?" Now though it should be obvious how I would feel. I wouldn't have the same disdain for Iginla if he was traded to a different team, but meh. I'm indifferent there too because it didn't work out for him. We'll see where he signs next for what kind of an opinion I would form there.

remember......ray missed on the first attempt and resigned with colorado only to .....well..........2001.

time will tell if iginla tries the same thing.

man, i really hate pittsburgh ....how sad is it that ive chirped young kids with pens gear on?

hockey fan huh.......ill give the gears to them

 

[Scott04]

remember......ray missed on the first attempt and resigned with colorado only to .....well..........2001.

time will tell if iginla tries the same thing.

man, i really hate pittsburgh ....how sad is it that ive chirped young kids with pens gear on?

hockey fan huh.......ill give the gears to them

don't remind me of Ray Bourque. I liked the guy until 2001

Is it bad that I take some solace in the fact that he's fat now?

 

[guitarguyvic]

My favorite argument of his is the Johnny Mac season. "Kovy's first full season and Parise got injured and the team played awful and missed the playoffs". **Conveniently ignores that Parise played the first dozen games when the team looked absolutely atrocious, then just continued that atrocious play after his injury. Was the team supposed to IMPROVE after losing one of it's two 40 goal scorers? Then conveniently ignore the fact that Kovy led the team in an amazing second half run that almost got the team into the playoffs, without Parise, which was in fact an IMPROVEMENT without Jim's golden boy. Also conveniently ignore that these events mirrored the coaching situation.

Clearly these are logical arguments for Kovalchuk's ineptitude...amiright?