Speculation: 2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings Version II

[Leafidelity]

This is my proposal nonetheless, what do you guys think?


Morgan Rielly (5th overall 2012)
Tyler Biggs (22nd overall 2011)
Stuart Percy (25th overall 2011)
2013 1st round draft pick


Alex Ovechkin (1st overall 2004)

Helllll no. I dont see what gutting our system does for a player Kessel has outperformed the past two years.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Hey guys I was watching the game and noticed Ovechkin sucks now

We should trade Rielly and our 1st for him

 

[DocWithABigDeke]

I don't always post, but when I do I make sure it's an awful thread.

 

[7even]

Not bad, not good.

A big hearty "meh" from me.

 

[RealisticLeaf55]

If Ovechkin did not do good on a defensive system before, why would you try now and again? Massive contract for a player who just looks like he does not care. He needs to rough it out with Oates and find some common ground. Ovie will bounce back with the caps. No reason to destroy our strong farm and raid the cupboards for a guy who does not fit our system.

 

[Leafidelity]

Rielly is instrumental to our PP ever becoming good. That's his place to shine.

 

[stakesishigh]

Hell no.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Call me crazy BUT Ovie coming to Toronto wouldnt be such a bad thing: The guy has mad skill, the problem is he's lost his desire/passion. I think being in this intense market will rekindle his drive, plus when he's firing on all cylinders he's a lethal scorer who can be nasty out there on the ice (something thats a turn on for Carlyle).

 

[DD03]

Do people ever think about the other teams line up?

 

[Defense]

If Ovechkin did not do good on a defensive system before, why would you try now and again? Massive contract for a player who just looks like he does not care. He needs to rough it out with Oates and find some common ground. Ovie will bounce back with the caps. No reason to destroy our strong farm and raid the cupboards for a guy who does not fit our system.

A defensive system? If Carlyle can get Kessel playing as well as he has defensively I'm sure he can get Ovy to buy into the systems. Ovechkin has had 4 different coaches in his career in Washington and has seemed to now just really struggle from a slow start. Can Oates light a fire under Ovys butt? Time will tell. I just think Carlyle as a players coach would gel well with Ovy.

Rielly is instrumental to our PP ever becoming good. That's his place to shine.

Ovechkin would not help our PP? Lol Kessel feeding Ovy one timers with his underrated passing! Or even Kadri would be sick.

PP Unit 1
Ovechkin - Kadri - Kessel
Phaneuf - Gardiner

I believe trading these 3 prospects in Rielly, Biggs, and Percy does not really destroy our farm as they are still playing in junior, not on the Marlies yet. It does take away from the cupboard may it be oreos, but i believe we stack our team with offensive dynamite, our organization with money and a positive outlook on our team to ultimately win. Not wait for another 5-10 years when our kids are ready. And with Ovechkin in our line up that 2013 first rounder would likely be 16th overall or higher as we will march into the playoffs with or without him.

 

[Leafs2013]

Just speculation and a proposal guys, after watching Ovechkin tonight, although he got 1 goal on the PP he was pretty awful. It got me thinking if this guy is still untouchable. Then on the main board I read the Ovechkin trade value thread. Like I posted on the main board, he's still the face of that franchise and puts Caps fans in the rink. Basically untouchable. A coaching change or some major trades would happen before Ovy is moved. A lot of fans are proposing garbage for Ovechkin even though its true he's slumping and has an expensive lengthy contract. It got me thinking... He still is one of the most talented players in the world 27 years of age, and a change of scenery may get him going again.

Why does Washington do this? Simply because they are in last place right now 1-5-1 and have a shot to bomb for 1st OVERALL Seth Jones or Nathan MacKinnon. Ovechkin has the priciest contract in the league and his work ethic has been questionable when he is on cold streaks. This allows Washington to rebuild and have a scary future.

Why do the Leafs do this? This is Alexander Ovechkin folks. Alexander the Gr8. Won the Calder Trophy, 2 Hart Trophys, 2 Rocket Richard Trophys, and an Art Ross. In the highlight reels and the games we've seen him play, especially how he kills his slumps against us, we all know how dynamic he is! This guy has scored 50 goals or more 5 times. He would help put us in the playoffs and indeed make us a playoff team. Ovy has a nice resume, even with 59 points in 51 playoff games. Goaltending and D is still questionable but Ovy would make our forward crew set.

And don't forget folks Phil Kessel has play making skills with 45 assists last season which doesn't necessarily scream the usual sniper to me. He can make plays and Ovy can finish. If Kessel had amazing chemistry with Lupul, well why wouldn't Kessel have insane chemistry with Ovechkin? With this acquisition maybe a hot ticket item free agent of Getzlafs class may become interested in playing for the upcoming powerhouse. This move would help us get one step closer to a cup as contenders in 2-3 years if we find our number 1. Can Ovy handle the pressure in Toronto? Well if Kessel can handle Leaf fans under the scrutiny of the media, Ovechkin would do marvellous. He has seemed to strive under pressure and has shown up for big games. Even his career stats against Toronto are just solid, 42 points in 27 games including 23 goals. Ovechkin just strives under the spotlight. He would also make MLSE tonnes of money and would just kill jersey selling records.

This is my proposal for a major move. We are ready imo, to let go of some futures. With emerging Gardiner on the back end as our potential puck mover, we can afford to move 18 year old Rielly an intriguing top prospect who won't be ready for another year or 2. How many young offensive defenseman are in the top pairing around the age of 20 in the NHL right now? Gardiner when he was playing 20+ minutes last season as a rookie has shown his high hockey IQ with the brilliance of smooth skating.

This is quality and quantity together that helps solidify Washingtons prospect pool and puts their rebuild mode in full stride. Plus we take on Ovechkins cap hit of 9.5 million that Washington can save for investment. Biggs I believe would be a good piece with Tom Wilson also coming up for the Caps as tough power forwards. And Percy and our 1st round pick are other quality pieces. Don't forget Washington do have some pretty looking prospects in Filip Forsberg and Yevgeni Kuznetsov to add the equivalent of 4 1st rounders.

This is my proposal nonetheless, what do you guys think?


Morgan Rielly (5th overall 2012)
Tyler Biggs (22nd overall 2011)
Stuart Percy (25th overall 2011)
2013 1st round draft pick


Alex Ovechkin (1st overall 2004)


FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Tyler Bozak ($1.500m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Mikail Grabovski ($5.500m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($0.851m) / Matt Frattin ($0.925m)
Leo Komarov ($1.200m) / Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Mike Brown ($0.737m)
Clarke MacArthur ($3.205m)

DEFENSEMEN
Mike Kostka ($0.600m) / Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m)
John-Michael Liles ($3.875m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($1.250m)
Cody Franson ($1.200m) / Jake Gardiner ($1.117m)

GOALTENDERS
James Riemer ($1.800m)
Ben Scrivens ($0.613m)

BUYOUTS
Darcy Tucker ($1.000m) / Colby Armstrong ($1.000m)

This is exactly the kind of mentality that gutted the leafs in the 2000's and the reason why they've been out of the playoffs for the past 8 years.

Trying not to sound mean because everyone has the right to their own opinion and fantasize about what they want for their hockey team, but if you're gnna be realistic and looking for input, this is just silly in so many ways.

First, in your line projections you just gave up 4 first rounders for a guy you put on your second line? Second you gave up 4 first rounders (one of them being defensive blue chipper) for a slumping overpaid superstar that brings similar elements to what we already have in Lupul n Kessel? Third, We just traded a top dman for a skilled big body left winger. Fourth, in an NHL where the cap is going DOWN next year, 4.25mil is > than 9.5m for a skilled, big bodied left winger on the second line. I'll admit JVR is not Ovy, but JVR, Lups, Kessel and even Kuly togther form a pretty decent core of top 6 wingers... and if we bump this in 2 months, maybe even Frattin, but we'll see.

Ovechkin is an awesome player when he wants to be, but he is not what the leafs need. And certainly not at that price.

Our best bet at this point is to hang on to our picks and prospects, maybe even try to swap Mac for a first or a good prospect if a team is desperate enough. Battle out the rest of this season and by some stroke of luck get into the playoffs by taking advantage of a short season, get some playoff experience. Then in the summer, throw everything at Getzlaf and maybe even Perry. Wheel and deal for a goaltender (possibly Luongo if its not done by then) and ice a very competitive team in 2013-14.

 

[goonx]

Ovie is my favourite player but lets face it, we dont need another winger and any reasonable trade starts with kadri+ or gardiner+

Maybe both.. Were giving up a lot prospects but lets face it, if you were the caps, i wouldnt take our spare pieces. There arent even any roster players in the trade. Other teams will beat that offer quite quickly. Unrealistic proposal IMO

Kessel+, kadri+gardiner+, JVR+

You cant get generational talent with trades like these. Maybe 5 first round picks for the next 5 years would be the start

Hes not producing right now but dont under estimate his market value. Hes the one that sells out the tickets in DC.

 

[TheSilencer]

Hey guys I was watching the game and noticed Ovechkin sucks now

We should trade Rielly and our 1st for him

Took the words outta my mouth.
No to the proposal.

 

[goonx]

Kessel to Nashville
for
Wilson + 1st + 2nd

Grabovski + Franson to Vancouver
for
1st + Kassian + Ballard

MacArthur + D'amigo to Whoever
for
2nd + 5th

1st(25-30) + 1st(15-20) + 2nd (40+)
for
1st (top 5) + 3rd

-----
1st overall Mackinnon
4th overall Drouin

Kassian(size being the reason)-Mackinnon-Drouin
Lupul-Kadri-Jvr
Kulemin-Wilson-Frattin/Komarov
Brown-Mcclement-Biggs/Devane/Broll

Lol what...

You want mckinnion and drouin to play on the same top line in the nhl for their rookie season?

One heck of a way to destroy young talent.

 

[Defense]

This is exactly the kind of mentality that gutted the leafs in the 2000's and the reason why they've been out of the playoffs for the past 8 years.

Trying not to sound mean because everyone has the right to their own opinion and fantasize about what they want for their hockey team, but if you're gnna be realistic and looking for input, this is just silly in so many ways.

First, in your line projections you just gave up 4 first rounders for a guy you put on your second line? Second you gave up 4 first rounders (one of them being defensive blue chipper) for a slumping overpaid superstar that brings similar elements to what we already have in Lupul n Kessel? Third, We just traded a top dman for a skilled big body left winger. Fourth, in an NHL where the cap is going DOWN next year, 4.25mil is > than 9.5m for a skilled, big bodied left winger on the second line. I'll admit JVR is not Ovy, but JVR, Lups, Kessel and even Kuly togther form a pretty decent core of top 6 wingers... and if we bump this in 2 months, maybe even Frattin, but we'll see.

Ovechkin is an awesome player when he wants to be, but he is not what the leafs need. And certainly not at that price.

Our best bet at this point is to hang on to our picks and prospects, maybe even try to swap Mac for a first or a good prospect if a team is desperate enough. Battle out the rest of this season and by some stroke of luck get into the playoffs by taking advantage of a short season, get some playoff experience. Then in the summer, throw everything at Getzlaf and maybe even Perry. Wheel and deal for a goaltender (possibly Luongo if its not done by then) and ice a very competitive team in 2013-14.

I'm not a coach and I don't do the lines, for all it matters it could be Ovechkin - Kadri - Kessel. You and I both know Ovechkin is a proven 1st liner. I don't think Kessel or Lupul have reached superstar status with both not having a single season over PPG yet. You see Rielly, as a future number 1 D? Maybe in 5 years and Kessel will be 30 by then, 30! Do these players help our playoff chances this year? Next year? Ovechkin would help push us for the cup, that being if we can find a goalie. Competitive in 2013-2014 well that is the last year of Kessels contract plus we want to be contenders.

However I do understand your opinion that OV is not what we need and I do agree he comes at a high price. But if an elite player of his caliber can be had, I believe its safe to go all in. MacArthur would be expendable and it doesn't hurt to have 3 lines rolling in our top 9 with our 3rd being our 1st right now.

You say throw everything at Getzlaf and Perry? 1) We don't have Brian Burke , 2) would Anahiem really let 2 elite players walk for nothing, 3) there are 28 other teams that would be interested in their services, likely resulting in a bidding war, therefore a 7-9 million range cap hit.

 

[legendinblue]

Wouldn't touch Ovechkin with a ten-foot pole.

 

[Leafs2013]

I don't think Kessel or Lupul have reached superstar status with both not having a single season over PPG yet.

Kessel not a superstar? Seriously? Top 6 scoring in the league...Thats not a superstar to you? And Lupul is a legitemate 1st line, ppg player, and a great leader... if you wanna knock him for any reason, atleast make it about his injuries. Anyways I'm not gonna make this into Kessel or Lupul vs. Ovi since were not talking about swapping Kessel or Lupul for Ovi, we're talking about adding Ovi to them.

You see Rielly, as a future number 1 D? Maybe in 5 years and Kessel will be 30 by then, 30! Do these players help our playoff chances this year? Next year? to be contenders

Could you please point out where I stated that Rielly will be a #1 Dman? I said "blue chip prospect" which means "a can't miss prospect"; doesn't mean he's gonna be a #1, just means he'll likely make a very good NHL player, at worst a top 4. And it's not unrealistic to think that he'll get there at somepoint in the next 2-3 years. Not to mention guys like Biggs, Percy and whoever they draft this year that you're basically ready to just throw away for what you consider to be a legitimate stanley cup team that is missing Ovechkin and a goaltender. Those players could end up being clutch guys like Lucic or M.Richards or J.Carter (drafted late 1st round and second round).

Ovechkin would help push us for the cup, that being if we can find a goalie.

Ovechkin couldn't push the Washington Capitals to the cup, a team that had Backstrom, Green, Carlson, Semin, Laich, Alzner etc... way more depth that Toronto has now and way more playoff experience. What makes you think he'll be able to push the Leafs to the cup? Oh yes, goaltender, badaboom badabing = Stanley Cup. Guess what, having all the talent in the world doesn't guarantee anything. Look at VAN, SJ, PHI (pre-trade). The team needs to grow chemistry as the players mature and develop and battle in the playoffs before they can make a legitimate run at the Cup. And what if they don't happen to win it this year or next year, what then? Blow it up again? You just wasted 2 years, plus another 3-4 after the fact developing prospects (which is where we are now).

However, the point you're making, and I'll respond to it accordingly; Is that we need to bring a top player into our team because we lack a "True Superstar".

I agree to a certain extent. If we had a realistic shot at winning the cup this year, or next year, or even the one after that and all we we're missing was a power forward scoring left winger, then I'd be on board with ya. But not in 3 years, because in 3 years Ovechkin would be 30, and according to your logic that is when they stop being able to be competitive and win stanley cups. Getzlaf fits this bill much better than Ovechkin and will likely be a UFA this summer, which won't cost the Leafs 4 first rounders.

You say throw everything at Getzlaf and Perry? 1) We don't have Brian Burke , 2) would Anahiem really let 2 elite players walk for nothing, 3) there are 28 other teams that would be interested in their services, likely resulting in a bidding war, therefore a 7-9 million range cap hit.

1) Umm how is Brian Burke relevant? Because Getzlaf and Perry just love Brian so much and would only sign here cuz of him? Guess what, players sign where the $ is and Toronto has the cap space and the available cash to make those investements. Something that 28 other teams don't all have. 7-8mill for Getzlaf or Perry is likely what the market will bear... where do I sign? 2) If Anaheim had control of that, they would have had them signed by now. The fact that they arent yet, indicates that they are likely going to test free agency. This isn't guaranteed, but on a probability scale... yes (i.e. Parise, Sutter, Schultz). And just to sweeten it up a bit, Perry is from southern ontario and spends a lot of time here in the off season. You follow? (i.e. Parise - Minnesota). But you're right, 28 other teams lol

So you see my friend; trading away prospects and picks that could turn out to be gems down the road, for a player that we don't really need and likely won't bring us the cup in the short run is not a very smart investement.

Keep the pick, keep the prospects. In 1-2 years time, when most of them have developed to a point where we can better judge to their true value and can better assess the state of the team as a whole (including playoff experience hopefully), only at that point would it make sense to make a trade for high impact player like Ovechkin. Till' then, please stop making ridiculous proposals.

 

[legendinblue]

Seems to me the Preds could really use Kessel. Not sure if they have what we need though, I'm not familiar with their prospect pool at all.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Seems to me the Preds could really use Kessel. Not sure if they have what we need though, I'm not familiar with their prospect pool at all.

Its not good enough up front where we need the help. From them I've seen.

Wilson
Watson
1st

Wilson has not panned out like expected. Its not too late but there needed to be more glimpses at this point. If he isn't succeeding under Trotz, don't think he would under Carlyle. Watson projects as a solid 3rd liner. That first will be 20th or more. Not good enough.

 

[tony135420]

Never been a fan of Ovechkin. I see him as a "me-first" type of player.

I would be much more interested in what it would take to acquire Backstrom from WSH.

Not that I believe either is available, but since we're shooting for the stars why not talk about something that's more of a pressing need.

 

[slozo]

I would say no to that original proposal . . . mostly because I and any sane GM would never trade Rielly (as others pointed out, you don't deal blue-chip d-men), and mostly because . . . Washington would for sure require a piece or two back to put in their line-up.

I would consider dealing, say, MacArthur and Colbourne and you'd have to throw in a very high draft pick or a great prospect. Or another serviceable young guy like Kostka maybe?

And yet, Washington wouldn't do that deal probably - Ovechkin would have to really slump further, at any rate, to do that deal.

So in the end, knowing what would be asked for / what we'd have to give up . . . no. I love the way Ovechkin plays in terms of hitting and tenacity . . . and he is still an 80 point guy when motivated I think, and certainly has the potential for another 50 goal season still if all is well. But his salary and trade asking price I feel would still be at that A+ Crosby/Malkin level, and surely he has fallen well below that now.

 

[notdoneyet]

We NEED two key pieces

a solid big center for Phil - Bozak is in way over his head on the first line
he is a nice complimentary piece but never will be a true #1

A solid defensive d-man who stays at home and can take the body while logging
25 minutes a night with Dion.

Add these two pieces and keep playing the system and the kids and we will
be surprised what this team can do.

As far as trading Phil, when we do its another hole to fill, a really big hole.

 

[ULF_55]

Just speculation and a proposal guys, ...

This is my proposal nonetheless, what do you guys think?


Morgan Rielly (5th overall 2012)
Tyler Biggs (22nd overall 2011)
Stuart Percy (25th overall 2011)
2013 1st round draft pick


Alex Ovechkin (1st overall 2004)

...

I'd only make one change ... Malkin and 2013 top 5 protected.

Just kidding, I'll wait and get Malkin UFA after next season.