2013 Expectations & Thoughts

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Tender Rip

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Feb 12, 2007
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I don't think it can be stated enough, for our system to work in the postseason, we need to have sustained pressure in the offensive zone. Giving Sid/Geno players who can help them torch the opposing defense.

That is true, sort of, but isn't sustained pressure in the offensive zone how most teams score their goals and win PP's? More cagey teams than us just try to make the most out of the times they have sustained pressure rather than force things to pressure all the time.

We had lots of sustained puck possession in the Montreal series, but not as many great chances as we'd want because we were getting kept to the outside. Much the same was true for the Tampa series, but that one was different due to not having Sid/Malkin.

Against Philly on the other hand we had all the possession, pressure and chances one could wish for offensively and we scored an amount of goals that should not have made it possible not to move on to the next round.
But we didn't have balance, we didn't have structure, we didn't have a goalie, we didn't have a pk and we had no answer to Philly's aggressive play behind our net. The latter I fear a lot against any future opponent with our current D-cast.

Maybe I'm misinformed, but our style of hockey is playing defense in their zone. Forcing them to deal with our skill, grit and speed.

I don't think you are misinformed. That's what Bylsma always says, and he is responsible for what is our style. The problem here is that on the biggest stage this style doesn't seem to work; we are not that gritty either (particularly on D, which is both undersized and relatively soff) and outside of Sid and Malkin we just don't have that much skill... very little infact.
We don't play a skilled game of hockey as such, we are a fast transitioning team with the two best players in the world on it.

In my opinion it doesn't matter that the puck is in the oppositions' zone 60% if we can be counted on to lose our **** with regularity when the puck is in our zone and can never seem to adjust to the pain our opponents are bringing. Before we solve our defensive frailties, both from a system/personnel point of view, we can forget about winning anything. Never mind zone time and offensive nous.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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May 28, 2006
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I just want to add that I feel really good about the Staal trade. If we had re-signed him at 6 mil per, we'd be playing short a scoring wing for Sid and Geno's entire prime because of cap constraints.

His deal opened up a ton of cap space, and Sutter should replace everything Staal brought in the defensive end and more (last year). In fact, even though he doesn't have Staal's size, strength or shot, I actually prefer Sutter playmaking, so maybe he'll give our 3rd line a little different look in the offensive end.

Pouliot and Dumoulin are very promising too, of course, but even if they don't reach their potential I think this could end up being a net win for the Pens. Replacing Staal's defensive virtues at a fraction of the cost gives us so much more flexibility moving forward.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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I just want to add that I feel really good about the Staal trade. If we had re-signed him at 6 mil per, we'd be playing short a scoring wing for Sid and Geno's entire prime because of cap constraints.

His deal opened up a ton of cap space, and Sutter should replace everything Staal brought in the defensive end and more (last year). In fact, even though he doesn't have Staal's size, strength or shot, I actually prefer Sutter playmaking, so maybe he'll give our 3rd line a little different look in the offensive end.

Pouliot and Dumoulin are very promising too, of course, but even if they don't reach their potential I think this could end up being a net win for the Pens. Replacing Staal's defensive virtues at a fraction of the cost gives us so much more flexibility moving forward.

That is a point about the trade not thought of overly much. The trade was not Sutter, Pouliot and Dumoulin. It was Sutter, Pouliot, Dumoulin and whoever we use those several million in saved cap space on, as the Pens are a team that does spend to the cap. That said, it is an interesting point to make but is just a cherry on top. Very few were upset with the trade at all, in fact quite the opposite. The only question at all was how the 8th pick was used.
 

cheesedanish87

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Jun 27, 2012
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I just want to add that I feel really good about the Staal trade. If we had re-signed him at 6 mil per, we'd be playing short a scoring wing for Sid and Geno's entire prime because of cap constraints.

His deal opened up a ton of cap space, and Sutter should replace everything Staal brought in the defensive end and more (last year). In fact, even though he doesn't have Staal's size, strength or shot, I actually prefer Sutter playmaking, so maybe he'll give our 3rd line a little different look in the offensive end.

Pouliot and Dumoulin are very promising too, of course, but even if they don't reach their potential I think this could end up being a net win for the Pens. Replacing Staal's defensive virtues at a fraction of the cost gives us so much more flexibility moving forward.

Ya I agree and the biggest thing with the staal trade is that if the season gets canceled he would of been a ufa next year and we would of got nothing for him.
 

#66

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That is a point about the trade not thought of overly much. The trade was not Sutter, Pouliot and Dumoulin. It was Sutter, Pouliot, Dumoulin and whoever we use those several million in saved cap space on, as the Pens are a team that does spend to the cap. That said, it is an interesting point to make but is just a cherry on top. Very few were upset with the trade at all, in fact quite the opposite. The only question at all was how the 8th pick was used.
Good call. The freeing up of money is huge in a cap world.

Another thing Sutter brings is a RHed face off man. With Sid winning face offs, Malkin getting better and Sutter mixing things up... the Pens should be way above average in the face off circle and a little more well rounded now.

Getting up to Tenders post... I think a huge issue with the Pens offensively is that they usually come down the ice, make plays and score from one side of the ice or the other. Not that they're not good but goalies like Halak and Rolo were made into star crushers because they only really had to play half of the net. I'm still POed at that TB series. Roloson was coming 10' out of his crease and the Pens would never have anyone go back door. It was just shoot, shoot, shoot right into the logo. I know Sid and Malkin weren't in the line up but the Pens looked like a hig school team. Meanwhile at the other end MAF is doing splits and going side to side on every play.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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That is a point about the trade not thought of overly much. The trade was not Sutter, Pouliot and Dumoulin. It was Sutter, Pouliot, Dumoulin and whoever we use those several million in saved cap space on, as the Pens are a team that does spend to the cap. That said, it is an interesting point to make but is just a cherry on top. Very few were upset with the trade at all, in fact quite the opposite. The only question at all was how the 8th pick was used.

True, but even though we were content with the return since Staal was on his way out one way or another when his contract expired, there was a general feeling that we were a worse team in the short term because of it. I don't think that's the case, if Shero can put those extra cap dollars to good use.
 

wgknestrick

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Aug 14, 2012
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That is true, sort of, but isn't sustained pressure in the offensive zone how most teams score their goals and win PP's? More cagey teams than us just try to make the most out of the times they have sustained pressure rather than force things to pressure all the time.

We had lots of sustained puck possession in the Montreal series, but not as many great chances as we'd want because we were getting kept to the outside. Much the same was true for the Tampa series, but that one was different due to not having Sid/Malkin.

Against Philly on the other hand we had all the possession, pressure and chances one could wish for offensively and we scored an amount of goals that should not have made it possible not to move on to the next round.
But we didn't have balance, we didn't have structure, we didn't have a goalie, we didn't have a pk and we had no answer to Philly's aggressive play behind our net. The latter I fear a lot against any future opponent with our current D-cast.



I don't think you are misinformed. That's what Bylsma always says, and he is responsible for what is our style. The problem here is that on the biggest stage this style doesn't seem to work; we are not that gritty either (particularly on D, which is both undersized and relatively soff) and outside of Sid and Malkin we just don't have that much skill... very little infact.
We don't play a skilled game of hockey as such, we are a fast transitioning team with the two best players in the world on it.

In my opinion it doesn't matter that the puck is in the oppositions' zone 60% if we can be counted on to lose our **** with regularity when the puck is in our zone and can never seem to adjust to the pain our opponents are bringing. Before we solve our defensive frailties, both from a system/personnel point of view, we can forget about winning anything. Never mind zone time and offensive nous.

The problem is not with our style or system, but how little confidence each and every player has in our goaltender. They are tired of him letting wristers in from the blue line or flopping around on routine plays.

You'd probably stop digging a trench if I constantly shoveled your dirt back in. This is how the players feel with MAF. Every defensive mistake looks to be catastrophic when you goaltender only saves 70-80% of shots. You cannot look at any of the last 3 Pens playoff failures and say that MAF played a good series and gave the Pens a chance to win.

Our D has changed quite a bit over the last 3 years, but there is 1 constant no one wants to blame.
 

Jag68Sid87

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Oct 1, 2003
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Well, at least we have a guy in Vokoun who might be able to plant Fleury's ass on the pine for an extended period of time if he hasn't fixed whatever the hell is ailing him.

And I also have a lot of hope for Jeff Zatkoff. I think he's been one of those under-the-radar goalies that could emerge late in his 20s.
 

Jag68Sid87

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on the subject of MAF, does anyone know where he is or what he is doing?

literally have heard nothing from/about him since that awful game 6 in phila.

I could be wrong, but I don't think he's played any hockey, other than that charity tournament set up by Max Talbot a while back. Not sure if that was one game or more (for Fleury).
 

wgknestrick

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Aug 14, 2012
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on the subject of MAF, does anyone know where he is or what he is doing?

literally have heard nothing from/about him since that awful game 6 in phila.

I hear he is practicing his puck handling :laugh:

Most people would be Rocky montage training after that embarrassment. MAF is probably doing burnouts in his Lambo.
 

Darth Vitale

Dark Matter
Aug 21, 2003
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He has picked up and moved his wife to the remote jungles of Micronesia, getting far away from the Canadian press and HF boards fans.
 

wgknestrick

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Aug 14, 2012
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Well, at least we have a guy in Vokoun who might be able to plant Fleury's ass on the pine for an extended period of time if he hasn't fixed whatever the hell is ailing him.

And I also have a lot of hope for Jeff Zatkoff. I think he's been one of those under-the-radar goalies that could emerge late in his 20s.

I agree with TV. Best UFA signing Shero has made...ever.

Zatkoff is our best goalie prospect, but that doesn't say much. WBS still has been posting terrible ES SV% as a team. (probably mostly due to Tiffany Amber)

http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1412
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
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On the topic of Iginla, I think we can put that to bed. The Flames haven't dealt him yet, and chances are they never will. Plus, they should soon have all the playmaking help he will need...in guys like Baertschi, Gaudreau, Markus Granlund and Mark Jankowski to add to what they already have in Tanguay and Cammalleri, plus Cervenka and Hudler. Roman Horak is having a breakout AHL season, too.

Sure, in a shortened season they might completely stink and finish dead last...but all that would do is give Iginla another great talent to play with (Seth Jones or Nathan MacKinnon or Jonathan Drouin, et al).

I think Iginla will retire a Flame.
 

wgknestrick

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Aug 14, 2012
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On the topic of Iginla, I think we can put that to bed. The Flames haven't dealt him yet, and chances are they never will. Plus, they should soon have all the playmaking help he will need...in guys like Baertschi, Gaudreau, Markus Granlund and Mark Jankowski to add to what they already have in Tanguay and Cammalleri, plus Cervenka and Hudler. Roman Horak is having a breakout AHL season, too.

Sure, in a shortened season they might completely stink and finish dead last...but all that would do is give Iginla another great talent to play with (Seth Jones or Nathan MacKinnon or Jonathan Drouin, et al).

I think Iginla will retire a Flame.

I don't think he goes anywhere either. I also question why we'd want him (and his salary cap hit). He is not quite an elite player anymore IMO and I don't see him playing for much under his 7mil hit to make it attractive / his production.
 

mpp9

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Dec 5, 2010
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On the topic of Iginla, I think we can put that to bed. The Flames haven't dealt him yet, and chances are they never will. Plus, they should soon have all the playmaking help he will need...in guys like Baertschi, Gaudreau, Markus Granlund and Mark Jankowski to add to what they already have in Tanguay and Cammalleri, plus Cervenka and Hudler. Roman Horak is having a breakout AHL season, too.

Sure, in a shortened season they might completely stink and finish dead last...but all that would do is give Iginla another great talent to play with (Seth Jones or Nathan MacKinnon or Jonathan Drouin, et al).

I think Iginla will retire a Flame.

Depends if the guy wants to win a Cup before he retires. Not seeing a chance that happens in Calgary in the next few years.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Calgary should put Iginla on the market...should've done it awhile ago, in fact. They're not winning a Cup with him, he's declining, and they could get a great return to kickstart their crappy prospect pipeline.

But with Feaster at the helm, who knows what they'll do.
 

mpp9

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That is true, sort of, but isn't sustained pressure in the offensive zone how most teams score their goals and win PP's? More cagey teams than us just try to make the most out of the times they have sustained pressure rather than force things to pressure all the time.

I just think our system will look a hell of alot better with D-men who have been developed for quick puck retrievals, mobility and keeping plays alive in the offensive zone. Far more so than guys like Martin or Orpik. And having talented hardworking linemates to flank Sid/Geno will keep the puck out of our end. Pretty simple IMO.

I just get pissed when people say Sid/Geno don't need more than what we currently have to support them. **** that. Load up. They'll dominate that much more. And our team defense will look that much better for it.

Against Philly on the other hand we had all the possession, pressure and chances one could wish for offensively and we scored an amount of goals that should not have made it possible not to move on to the next round.
But we didn't have balance, we didn't have structure, we didn't have a goalie, we didn't have a pk and we had no answer to Philly's aggressive play behind our net. The latter I fear a lot against any future opponent with our current D-cast.

I'd say the single biggest factor (aside from Fleury) in that Philly series that worked against us was our inability to make the right decisions with the puck at the right moments. Dupuis not getting a puck deep leading to Simmonds burning Martin. Geno trying to play east/west in the neutral zone. That can be corrected. If it's not, DB deserves a boot to the *** on his way out.

Giving more minutes to our youth on D and adjusting how we defend against strong forechecking teams like Philly is what I'd do.

I think we had alot of quick transition, alot of goal scoring, but not exactly alot of constant pressure on Philly's defense. From a personnel standpoint, if we're going to stick with our style of play, I'd be looking for Sid's RW so we have two lines that can absolutely dominate. Someone who can make plays and throw hits. A RHS presence on the PP would also help to spread out opposing PK schemes and give a guy like Letang more space at the point. And thus leading to far fewer SH goals. Which was another huge factor in the Philly series.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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Well, at least we have a guy in Vokoun who might be able to plant Fleury's ass on the pine for an extended period of time if he hasn't fixed whatever the hell is ailing him.

Would Bylsma do that? I mean, we fans hope that's the case if Fleury struggles. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not sold that if Fleury was stinking it up coming to the playoffs that Bylsma would install Vokoun as the playoff starter.

He may be quick to hook Fleury in a game, or even give Vokoun a start after a rough Fleury game. But I'm not sure Bylsma sees it as a 1a/1b tandem. Until I see otherwise, I think he sees Vokoun as just a better backup than Johnson who can play 25 games a year instead of 15.
 

Jag68Sid87

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Oct 1, 2003
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Would Bylsma do that? I mean, we fans hope that's the case if Fleury struggles. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not sold that if Fleury was stinking it up coming to the playoffs that Bylsma would install Vokoun as the playoff starter.

He may be quick to hook Fleury in a game, or even give Vokoun a start after a rough Fleury game. But I'm not sure Bylsma sees it as a 1a/1b tandem. Until I see otherwise, I think he sees Vokoun as just a better backup than Johnson who can play 25 games a year instead of 15.

Bylsma may have less job security than Fleury, so he needs a good start to this shortened season.
 

Til the End of Time

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May 18, 2003
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I could be wrong, but I don't think he's played any hockey, other than that charity tournament set up by Max Talbot a while back. Not sure if that was one game or more (for Fleury).

so if that's true, what does everyone think of that? honest question, is it concerning?

obviously some starters are over in europe, and i've read stuff about various north american goalies involved in informal scrimmages and camps over here.

are there other starting goalies that have dropped off the face of the earth?
 

UnrealMachine

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Jul 9, 2012
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Taking some extended time off could be the best thing right now for Fleury, provided that he is staying in shape and doing on-ice workouts. I don't think it will hurt him much considering there are goalies who have to take extended time off recovering from major injury or the like. He's certainly in a better position that those folks.
 
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