Proposal: 2013-2014 Trade Deadline Talk - Part Deux - Kane, Wheeler & Patches

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

These dmen need 5-7 years to become valuable commodities.

And meaningful NHL playing time...

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Plus Shero can't piggyback off of Shero's draftees anymore. We don't have a Goligoski or Whitney that would fetch us a nice return. We have Matt Niskanen and a bunch of unknowns with little value. That's the problem with his stupid drafting philosophy. These dmen need 5-7 years to become valuable commodities.

Sid and Geno are wasting the prime of their careers here. I think so highly of them for not demanding a trade.

Not every retired superstar can say one day, well I played on a line with Pascal Dupuis!!

 

[Tumty]

Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline 1h
Barring a dramatic change, I see no chance #CBJ even attempt to re-sign Marian Gaborik, will look to move him at trade deadline or sooner.

Cmon shero, make some moves. There is good guy in our bottom 6. I mean no way that dupuis is moving in bottom 6, he is too good. Right Dan?

No, but seriously. What u think would be the price for gabo?

 

[mpp9]

Marian Gaborik solves very little here.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Marian Gaborik solves very little here.

Third-line left wing, woohoo.

 

[Tumty]

Marian Gaborik solves very little here.

Yeah. We have scored 3goals last 3games. In boston series zero. You think guys like dupuis, kunitz and jokinen will be enough?

 

[Darth Vitale]

This. You hit the wobbly pops early today, DV?

I may be having a bad week. I blame lack of sleep. And the gub'mint.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah. We have scored 3goals last 3games. In boston series zero. You think guys like dupuis, kunitz and jokinen will be enough?

Did you forget who the Pens' coach is? Did you forget how he used Iginla last season?

In theory, Gaborik's goal scoring would be huge for the Pens. In theory. In reality, DB won't break up the KCD line, so Gaborik would be playing with Malkin and Neal and, likely, that line would struggle like the Iginla/Malkin/Neal line did because of its lack of physicality/grinder/puck pursuer/forechecker.

If Bylsma ever smartened the **** up, Gaborik could be an asset to the Pens. Unfortunately, there's a better chance Gaborik ends up playing with Brandon Sutter than he does in a position to succeed here.

 

[Shrimper]

People seem to also forget that Gaborik carries a what, $7m cap hit?

Yeah, we can't afford that.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Gaborik is not the winger you are looking for.

 

[Ogrezilla]

the cost of the trade doesn't matter for Gaborik, we can't afford his cap hit.

 

[Shrimper]

Gaborik is not the winger you are looking for.

But yeah, Gaborik isn't what we want.

 

[Captain Hook]

Yeah, I don't see Gaborik being a fit here. The cap hit is too high like others have said. I doubt Columbus wants to retain much salary or cap hit in a trade of him unless a team is willing to completely overpay them to do so. I don't think I'd like the price tag on Gaborik anyway.

I don't believe the Pens are as married to KCD as others though. I can see them going out and getting Sid a winger if Dupuis continues to struggle. It was just hard to justify making a switch there last year when Dupuis was having a career year. Not to mention Sid being out until game 2 of the playoffs. The team really didn't have time to experiment with different line combos in the regular season because of the injury.

 

[TheBeardofJustice]

We screwed ourselves when we extended Bylsma, backed Fleury (even though he's been pretty good so far) and then extended Letang at 7+M per. Signing Dupuis and Kunitz to multi year deals were quite bad as well.

We have FAR to much money tied up in 3 players. Sid is the only guy i would riot about if he ended up in another city. He is the franchise. I'd HATE to lose Malkin but if we got a king's ransom of young elite player(s) picks why not consider it? Malkin costs a ton, can disappear for long stretches and quite frankly makes to man dumb decisions in the offensive zone anymore. Again, i love the guy, he is an elite player but not a guy who mark untouchable. Same thing with Letang, although i've always thought he was overrated.

You can talk all you want about slumps but Malkin is simply not playing anywhere near a 9M per year player. Letang hasn't come close to looking like a 7+M player.

We have zero prospects of note at W and that is a major problem considering we have next to no W's worth a damn long term outside of Neal and Bennett.

You simply can't tie up the money we have in 3 players with the cap like it is and have the depth across 4 lines and 7 or 8 deep on D to succeed.

Malkin would net a massive return and Letang slightly less. You could fortify this team for years with the right players/picks coming back our way. Not to mention you'd likely be clearing a ton of cap space at least in the short term (think 3-4 years).

Call up Toronto and work out a package involing Kadri, JVR and somebody like Rielly, Reimer, or Gauthier thrown into the mix

Move Letang+Bennett+pick for Yak, Eberle and say Klefbom or Nurse

Could you imagine Bylsma gone and having the following top 9?

JVR-Crosby-Yak
Neal-Kadri-Eberle
Kunitz-Sutter-Dupuis

Then you let Orpik walk (replaced by Dumo), move Nisky and let Despres log serious minutes. Dupuis and Kunitz are where they should be. You could switch Eberle and Yak until Yak gained more experience but i think he'd score 50 a year with Sid personally.

Let's say you got Reimer with Kadri and JVR in a Malkin deal.....you'd have a legit person to outright take over for MAF or at least push him if he's not sent packing.

Plus you'd have one of Klefbom or Nurse, Maatta, Pouliout, Despres, Dumo along with a few vets like Martin and Scuderi as rocks going forward on D.

Just some thoughts out loud. Pipe dreams i know.

Ho Lee ****. That is a nice roster you got there. This is one of the only armchair general manager situations where I could honestly see the other team accepting the trade offers and the team working. Kudos.

 

[66-30-33]

First Bylsma has to go, THEN improve the team. What's the point improving now? Bylsma would use him out of his comfortable position, or place him on the third line.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Come on now with this Gaborik talk. Let's use some common sense here.

First, the Pens can't afford him.

Next, common sense should tell you that Gaborik would play on the 3rd line or benched with the Pens. He has no sandpaper to his game. He doesn't hustle both sides of the ice. He's not a Bylsma player.

Glass and Adams would be higher than Gaborik on Bylsma's personal like list.

Bylsma's idea of a 1st line winger is Cal Clutterbuck.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Come on now with this Gaborik talk. Let's use some common sense here.

First, the Pens can't afford him.

Next, common sense should tell you that Gaborik would play on the 3rd line or benched with the Pens. He has no sandpaper to his game. He doesn't hustle both sides of the ice. He's not a Bylsma player.

Glass and Adams would be higher than Gaborik on Bylsma's personal like list.

Bylsma's idea of a 1st line winger is Cal Clutterbuck.

I'll give Disco a little more credit than that. I figure he dreams about guys like Dustin Brown and Milan Lucic.

 

[jmelm]

I am on board with the Sutter to Canucks for Kassian talk, but I think the Canucks would need to add to get Sutter, Sutter has proven to belong in the NHL, Kassian hasn't, as of yet. Only reason he isn't in the AHL is because the Canucks gifted the Sabres a top 6 center in the trade.

I would be happy with Sutter for Kassian and the Canucks 2nd or could Shero get more? Maybe throw in Jeffrey as well and get Jensen + Kassian and a later pick, like a 3rd or 4th. Or a different prospect in addition to Kassian, not many of the Canucks forward prospects are impressive, the one that is, is likely untouchable in Horvat.

....

Or am I wrong here?

Yes, you are somewhat wrong because VAN values Jensen really highly. Great example of using draft picks properly, though, because if the Pens really wanted a Jensen or Rattie or Rakell or Brett Ritchie, they could have had them instead of Morrow in the draft.

Also, Vancouver, in the last 2 years, has drafted Brendan Gaunce and Bo Horvat. So their long-term weakness at the centre position has been addressed, and in the interim, Santorelli has been really good. I'm not saying definitively that there's no trade to be had there, but it does make it less likely. Also, while I like Kassian, and while I'm not averse to trading Sutter, I would want more of a sure-thing than Kassian for Sutter. (Kassian for Samuelsson++ or a 1st rounder or something, maybe, but for Sutter I would want someone like a Jacob Silfverberg, even if we had to add).

AND, IF we trade Sutter, Jeffrey has to be the guy to take his place. So throwing Jeffrey in with Sutter creates a massive hole for us at centre. I do believe Jeffrey has the ability to be a very good 3rd line centre, which is why I'm open to trading Sutter for the right return, and vice-versa, but we can't trade both of these guys. Our other centre prospects are just WAY too far away and there's not a sure thing amongst that bunch.

I've been hoping for a Sutter/ Kulemin trade since the summer. With Bolland going down it might be easy to pull off now.

Then try to pull off...

Depres and Kobasew
for
Chipchura and H Samuelsson
....

Ok, that's a HORRIBLE proposal. I think Kulemin could be a good fit here, but not a snowball's chance in hell is he worth Brandon Sutter, especially when he's going to be a UFA at the end of the year! Are you on crack?

Also, I'm all for trading Despres, but ONLY if we get a BLUE-CHIP prospect. Samuelsson is a nice player, but he projects more as a really good 3rd liner, or perhaps a decent 2nd liner, and is NOWHERE close to helping out this team now. He'll need at least a year or 2 in the AHL before he's ready, whereas Despres could either garner us an NHL ready player, a better prospect, or could play in Orpik or Niskanen's spot if the Pens had the balls to trade one of those guys. If Despres goes, it should be for an a guy like Etem, Silfverberg, Smith-Pelley, etc... And I would rather add, even a lot if necessary (i.e. a 1st round pick, etc.) to a package to get that special winger that we need.

 

[jmelm]

Change here will ONLY occur when we hire someone new to run the team, and then a new coach. THIS regime is not interested in what you're saying, jmelm. This regime needs to find enough minutes for the likes of Brandon Sutter, Tanner Glass, Craig Adams, and MAJOR minutes for Pascal Dupuis and Chris Kunitz...two complementary players turned into CORE forwards by this regime.

If Hossa said "yes" to our contract offer, we probably wouldn't even be having this problem or conversation. Sure, that means we would have probably needed to trade Staal sooner, but we would have got a comparable return of young talent anyway.

And remember, when you say "this regime" don't forget that Mario Lemieux still has a lot of say and was the one who encouraged the Hossa trade. And Shero is a smart guy. I don't believe these guys don't recognize the need we're talking about here, and would like to see Crosby have his "Jari Kurri" or whatever. So I really believe this is more of an issue of not making intelligent drafting decisions (primarily trading away too many picks and prospects for rentals), as well as not having the cap room to pick up a guy like Setoguchi (who could have been had for one of the draft picks we gave up for Douglas Murray or whatever), or going after other guys. This problem will eventually get solved, this year or next, but it's frustrating as ****** in the meantime.

Gaborik is too high of a price for the Pens.. Please no more rentals

Indeed, we HAVE TO STOP trading away draft picks or prospects, unless it's for players we intend to retain. But...

Marian Gaborik solves very little here.

Disagree here. We probably can't afford it, but I'd roll the dice on Gaborik in the summer as a UFA because that's exactly the TYPE of player we need -- a legit game-breaking goal scorer who can be a threat with one of our great centres, or even without a skilled guy, like a Sutter on his line. I think the aim should be to try to find a younger & cheaper version of that type of player via trade.

I think if you threw Dupuis with Sutter and Beau with Sid, we're one trade away from having a contending roster.

The idiot behind the bench won't do it unfortunately.

It's 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other to simply do a switch of wingers like that. But if we could have Bennett--Sutter--Dupuis playing on the 3rd line and had a guy like, just for example, a Hossa playing with Sid, we would have the depth, secondary and elite winger for Sid that we need to compete with the best of the best.

You have to remembering something though: You can call Bylsma an idiot all you want, but he's not the one making the trades. We're not in a situation like the Leafs were with Pat Quinn or whatever where we've got a Coach who is also the GM behind the bench. Bylsma is trying to do the best with what is given to him, and what we've given to him is basically a brick of Swiss Cheese: there are some holes in this line up. I'm not saying Bylsma is great, but he is not the one making player-personnel decisions that are the reason we're weak; rather, it's Shero not making forwards a priority and, if necessary, clearing the cap space of an Orpik or Niskanen to bring in a forward like a Brunner or Setoguchi or whoever. Shero has to make the move, and not for another rental, as mentioned.

 

[Til the End of Time]

i find all this trade talk to be pointless, as long as hcdb is at the helm.

we saw what happened when shero acquires appropriate pieces-- idiot hcdb does the worst possible job utilizing him.

im not going to get excited or worked up or waste time thinking about any acquisitions until bylsma is gone. shero could acquire king henrik and the idiot coach would start maf instead, so whats the point in talking about possible additions to the team?

 

[mpp9]

So this is the Hawks forward lineup.

Sharp-Toews-Hossa
Saad-Pirri-Kane
Bickell-Shaw-Versteeg
Bollig-Kruger-Smith

vs.

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
D'Agostini-Sutter-Beau
Glass-Vitale-Adams

I like to hope Shero doesn't think those two rosters are comparable.

 

[lastcupever75]

Come on now with this Gaborik talk. Let's use some common sense here.

First, the Pens can't afford him.

Next, common sense should tell you that Gaborik would play on the 3rd line or benched with the Pens. He has no sandpaper to his game. He doesn't hustle both sides of the ice. He's not a Bylsma player.

Glass and Adams would be higher than Gaborik on Bylsma's personal like list.

Bylsma's idea of a 1st line winger is Cal Clutterbuck.

i'll take him on the 1st or 2nd line on this team in a second. thats whats missing in our top 6.

 

[Captain Hook]

I think Gaborik would fit well with Sid. He has Dupuis' wheels and 10x the skill. I just don't think he'll fall in the Pens price range.

 

[Tender Rip]

i'll take him on the 1st or 2nd line on this team in a second. thats whats missing in our top 6.

Magic pie in the sky fixes all! FTW!

Lets continue plugging evident holes with players who have significant salaries but do not actually fit the needs we have.

I really like Gaborik's skillset, but acquiring him would be just as stupid as resigning Dupuis to a 3,75 million dollar contract.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So this is the Hawks forward lineup.

Sharp-Toews-Hossa
Saad-Pirri-Kane
Bickell-Shaw-Versteeg
Bollig-Kruger-Smith

vs.

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
D'Agostini-Sutter-Beau
Glass-Vitale-Adams

I like to hope Shero doesn't think those two rosters are comparable.

Pens have Crosby and Malkin, so that automatically gives them a superior roster. At least that seems to be the mindset with this organization.