2012 re-draft

[Romang67]

Unfortunately, neutral fans aren't the most informed bunch.

And TOI/G? All that shows is that he's gotten more of an opportunity. The rotation between Leaf coaches and how they used Rielly will show inconsistencies in those numbers as well.

I stand by my earlier argument that Rielly is stronger, faster and just as smart as (if not smarter than) Trouba and he's proven he doesn't need a booming shot to score goals in this league. Trouba's a fine defenceman and may even be a number 1 someday, but there is no way in hell I'd trade Rielly for him and it has very little to do with homerism.



Pointing out Trouba is overrated, which has been pretty obvious for the better part of two years, is hardly embarrassing me. I'm just posting what everybody already knows.

And being honest, I doubt Trouba did much evolving this season. I didn't see him taking any major steps forward that's for sure.

I like how you ignored that he had to fight for that ice time with Myers and Byfuglien.

Oh your burning hatred for Trouba. It must be hard to see him continually rise to the challenge.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Right now it's between Trouba and Lindholm for me with Fil Forsberg rounding out the top 3. I'm expecting a big bounce back from Yakupov though. He has the talent and the work ethic, just has been caught in a bad situation. Once Eakins was fired he had some hump and had a bad shooting %. Now that they have McDavid and a real coach I think he will do well.

 

[Romang67]

I must say that it's weird that it's always certain fans from a certain team calling Trouba overrated. Them and practically no one else. And then they call fans that "overrate" Trouba uninformed. Curious to say the least.

I mean, it's just the vast majority of hockey fans and their eye test, as well as statistics, that disagrees with their assessment. I'm sure they have no underlying agenda for popping into all these threads to call Trouba overrated.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Atomos you're off base here, Trouba is a total stud. That's not people putting down your guy. Just recognizing what Trouba has accomplished so far. He's risen to the occasion and looked comfortable playing 23:19 a game.

 

[wahsnairb]

Forsberg
Lindholm
Trouba
Maatta
Galchenyuk
Rielly
Murray
Yakupov

but I think Murray will end up being the best from this class

 

[Atomos2]

I like how you ignored that he had to fight for that ice time with Myers and Byfuglien.

Oh your burning hatred for Trouba. It must be hard to see him continually rise to the challenge.

I don't see the point in that comparison. Are you trying to say being near the top of the league in TOI/G because you're challenging for ice time with Myers and Buff makes you a top defenceman. I'd say that's irrelevant so I am ignoring it. With the amount of fluctuations that the leafs were involved in last year with coaching and the amount of different defenceman that were traded and brought in, there was very little consistency.

I don't hate Trouba. I watch him a lot. I don't hate any player. I do hate the hype that comes with him though.

 

[Atomos2]

Atomos you're off base here, Trouba is a total stud. That's not people putting down your guy. Just recognizing what Trouba has accomplished so far. He's risen to the occasion and looked comfortable playing 23:19 a game.

I'm not off based. I've seen what he's done. Impressive among the average NHL defencemen, but certainly nothing that puts him above this draft class of dmen aka Rielly, Maatta, Murray etc.

 

[Romang67]

I don't see the point in that comparison. Are you trying to say being near the top of the league in TOI/G because you're challenging for ice time with Myers and Buff makes you a top defenceman. I'd say that's irrelevant so I am ignoring it. With the amount of fluctuations that the leafs were involved in last year with coaching and the amount of different defenceman that were traded and brought in, there was very little consistency.

I don't hate Trouba. I watch him a lot. I don't hate any player. I do hate the hype that comes with him though.

Wait, you think it's irrelevant that Trouba is getting that much ice time despite having to contend for the ice time with high quality D-men?

That's weird. Some people would argue that it signals that Paul Maurice is inclined to put Trouba out on the ice more often than Byfuglien or Myers. In other words, that Trouba is better than Byfuglien and Myers.

One could argue that the statistics backs up that Trouba is superior to Byfuglien and Myers as well.

I don't see how the Leafs' TOI/G matters in this regard? Do you not agree that Trouba getting more ice time than Byfuglien and Myers matters when it comes to comparing D-men on the Jets?

 

[Romang67]

I'm not off based. I've seen what he's done. Impressive among the average NHL defencemen, but certainly nothing that puts him above this draft class of dmen aka Rielly, Maatta, Murray etc.

No, everyone else is! Right? Including statistics?

 

[veganhunter]

Also interesting that offence is one of the areas where Rielly is viewed as vastly superior and it helps him gain ground on Trouba yet...

Trouba: 0.45P/G and 0.34P/G
Rielly: 0.37P/G and 0.36P/G

Trouba gets very little PP time as he gets the most PK time of our D and we have Byfuglien (on pace for 50+ points every year he has played D) + Enstrom (has never been on pace for less than 30 points as an NHL D and hit 50 twice).

Rielly conversely gets plenty of PP time.

Not to mention what was posted previously that shows statistically speaking (outside of points) Trouba is superior and Trouba managed to pull a traditionally terrible possession player in Stuart towards respectability while if you look at Rielly's partners possession numbers, he hasn't.

 

[HanSolo]

Maatta is just good at everything. He plays like he's been in the NHL for ten years. Now, if he can just stay healthy.

Unfortunately for your argument I'm sure that fans of guys like Trouba, Lindholm, Rielly, Murray, etc. say the same thing about their guy. I've followed this draft the most out of any I've been alive for before and after the fact and even a healthy Maatta is just a hair below his top peers.

 

[Atomos2]

Also interesting that offence is one of the areas where Rielly is viewed as vastly superior and it helps him gain ground on Trouba yet...

Trouba: 0.45P/G and 0.34P/G
Rielly: 0.37P/G and 0.36P/G

Trouba gets very little PP time as he gets the most PK time of our D and we have Byfuglien (on pace for 50+ points every year he has played D) + Enstrom (has never been on pace for less than 30 points as an NHL D and hit 50 twice).

Rielly conversely gets plenty of PP time.

Not to mention what was posted previously that shows statistically speaking (outside of points) Trouba is superior and Trouba managed to pull a traditionally terrible possession player in Stuart towards respectability while if you look at Rielly's partners possession numbers, he hasn't.

All I can tell from these numbers is Trouba is getting progressively worse offensively by the year. Comparing the possession numbers of each of their linemates is just a poor strategy all together. First off, which partner are you using? Gardiner? Franson? Polak? Gardiner's possession numbers are good. Polak's aren't. Franson's are.

Also, please tell me what was previously posted that statistically says Trouba is superior. Do you mean the fact that he had a top 30 TOI/G while fighting for icetime with Buff and Myers? Are those the stats that say Trouba is clearly better?

 

[BigBen]

How can Galchenyuk be so much higher than Yak? The guy has been on one of the best teams and has been given a lot of opportunity with nothing to show. I'm not saying Yak should be clearly ahead of them, but both have been underwhelming up to this point. I see Yak taking the next step this year and surpassing Chucky.

 

[HanSolo]

How can Galchenyuk be so much higher than Yak? The guy has been on one of the best teams and has been given a lot of opportunity with nothing to show. I'm not saying Yak should be clearly ahead of them, but both have been underwhelming up to this point. I see Yak taking the next step this year and surpassing Chucky.

And yet one wonders how other first overall picks performed well on bad teams.

 

[WarriorofTime]

And yet one wonders how other first overall picks performed well on bad teams.

Unique situation.

 

[Ducks in a row]

How can Galchenyuk be so much higher than Yak? The guy has been on one of the best teams and has been given a lot of opportunity with nothing to show. I'm not saying Yak should be clearly ahead of them, but both have been underwhelming up to this point. I see Yak taking the next step this year and surpassing Chucky.

Without McDavid I wonder if you would say that hmm...

 

[JCLiponfanboy*]

I must say that it's weird that it's always certain fans from a certain team calling Trouba overrated. Them and practically no one else. And then they call fans that "overrate" Trouba uninformed. Curious to say the least.

I mean, it's just the vast majority of hockey fans and their eye test, as well as statistics, that disagrees with their assessment. I'm sure they have no underlying agenda for popping into all these threads to call Trouba overrated.

I'm a big Rielly fan, but it's getting ridiculous how often this is happening.

 

[JCLiponfanboy*]

Pearson is another guy being overlooked along with Severson

 

[PhoenyX]

In terms of defencemen, Lindholm and Trouba are a notch above everyone else from that draft class thus far. I'm baffled that anyone thinks otherwise and that is no disrespect to guys like Rielly, Määttä or Murray who have been impressive in their own right.

 

[Atomos2]

In terms of defencemen, Lindholm and Trouba are a notch above everyone else from that draft class thus far. I'm baffled that anyone thinks otherwise and that is no disrespect to guys like Rielly, Määttä or Murray who have been impressive in their own right.

Care to actually prove this? I don't disagree with Lindholm, but people keep attaching Trouba to him as if they were on the same level. Lindholm is better and Trouba falls into the same level as Murray, Rielly, Määttä etc. I've seen nothing credible that disproves this theory.

 

[CanadienShark]

I know how terribly off topic this post is, so I'll just re-iterate that I'd take Galchenyuk #1. Other players definitely have a good case. Anyways...

Getting tire of waiting......long time to wait for a first over to show it. Rnh and hall managed to persevere and succeed in edm.

Looking forward to him becoming the next Chris Kunitz for mccrosby to bounce pucks off of into the net. Bloated next contract is on deck!

Your avatar cracked me up.

Duh. I should've realized.

Your avatar looks delicious.

 

[The Sweetness]

Awesome draft for defensemen. It's hard to establish a clear order among top guys like Lindholm, Trouba, Mäattä, Rielly, etc as things can swing pretty quickly after one season but it's clear that this draft has the potential for a ton of top defenders.

 

[TaLoN]

How so? Roughly 3/5 of the 1st round picks are pretty much established NHLers and they'll be entering their 4th season in the league (3.5 really since their 1st year was the lockout).

Lindholm, Galchenyuk, Trouba, Forsberg, Vasilevsky, Dumba, Reilly & Teravainen all have all star upside. Give them a chance

Dumba isn't getting much respect in this thread, yet he was absolutely a beast down the stretch last season... taking over several games! Very difficult in the NHL for a defenseman to take over a game like that!

 

[HanSolo]

Unique situation.

Hall and Nugent Hopkins...

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

I am surprised there are many people putting Galchenyuk 1st. I would definitely rather have a potential franchise defensemen in Trouba