saffronleaf
Registered User
Is Milwaukee any closer to be able to support an NHL team? Or would the NBA team have to leave first? Wisconsin seems like a great state for hockey.
2010 Census data released (UPD 2013)
- Thread starter LadyStanley
- Start date
Is Milwaukee any closer to be able to support an NHL team? Or would the NBA team have to leave first? Wisconsin seems like a great state for hockey.
Yes and no... the CSA stats can be deceptive in some cases, but in others they correct weird errors in the MSAs (like Riverside not being counted with LA, or the Bay Area being split into different MSAs). In many cases, the CSA stats are a better indicator of a team's catchment area, Ann Arbor's arguably not in the Detroit metro area but it's certainly an area the Wings draw a lot of fans and STHs from.
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
Older, yes. I'm not sure where you got poorer. Median household income is well above the national average all around Southern Wisconsin except for Milwaukee County. National average is a little over $50,000, Milwaukee County is only $43,200 but Waukesha and Ozaukee Counties are at $75,000. Racine, Jefferson, Walworth and Kenosha Counties are at $54,000. Dodge, Fond du Lac and Sheboygan Counties are $51,000-52,000. Dane County (Madison) is $60,000. Fox Cities' Counties are between $50,000 and $60,000.
The total personal income for Wisconsin in 2011 was $226,042,141 basically right on par with Colorado, Missouri and Minnesota.
The older and poorer areas of the state are way in the West and North where almost nobody lives. Milwaukee West to Madison and North to Green Bay are fine.
Djp
Registered User
Vancouver is close enough for day/overnight trips for games. Its also close to Portland for day/overnight trips up to see games in Seattle.
what also isnt considered ...just like LA you have a good number of canadians who live in the seattle area who would come out for the canadian teams they grew up fans of.
Seattle has alot of economic ties to Calgary and Edmonton too.
In buffalo you have canadians who live in NY state thus they come out for the canadian teams playing. Not all of them are border crossers.
Djp
Registered User
For DC there are two counties as part of DC.
The only reason WV has developed is because of Western Loudon county building restrictions. Those didnt exist you wouldnt have had the exurbs in WV.
Pike county is right along I-80 so easy transportation to NJ and NYC.
Glacial
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2013
- 1,704
- 116
Seeing the hype about Phoenix earlier in this thread being the place to be reminds me of an article I saw. I don't agree with the tone of it (a little too much like the soapbox doomsayer) but it does highlight some major underlying structural weaknesses:
http://www.thenation.com/article/173346/could-phoenix-soon-become-uninhabitable
Is Phoenix really going to grow grow grow as it has in the past? What happens when it runs up against the water wall? What happens when it grows so much, it outpaces the growth of its power grid and people have to sit in their ovens, correction, their houses in a blackout? Those are not problems solved quickly, nor cheaply. Even sidestepping the entire climate change debate, just look to the Desert Southwest's climatological past. It skews towards being drier than it has been in the 20th century:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs117-03/
Then there's something like this:
I don't see how central Arizona grows grows grows like it did in the mid-late 20th century. Demographers may say one thing, but area climate and resource availability say another thing.
About Columbus, yeah, it looks like a smart move on the NHL's part (one of the few). Even in 2000, Columbus was solidly in the top 50 markets in the US and it had no pro sports teams. Now, Cleveland may have been blocked by the Red Wings or Sabres potentially, but Cincinnati's support for the Reds & Bengals is below where it should be (Reds support is decent, but their new ballpark had a humiliating opening season in 2003. Better than some teams in other markets in the NFL & NHL. Bengals. Yeah I heard they came in 2nd when it came to football down there, with Ohio State coming in 1st), so Columbus seemed fairly smart. Maybe it was actually a stupid move that time itself bailed them out on. Who knows.
About Detroit, given its staggering fall, I'm surprised its teams haven't relocated to the suburbs. Only the Pistons are in the suburbs. Go figure. One would have assumed they would've been the last to leave. The decline doesn't seem to have hurt Tigers, Red Wings or Lions attendance. Are those areas safe (I've heard the Yankees play in a bad area but NYPD always provides good security for the ballpark and the walk to the nearest subway station) or are they in the few thriving (well, maybe just enduring) parts of Detroit?
http://www.thenation.com/article/173346/could-phoenix-soon-become-uninhabitable
Is Phoenix really going to grow grow grow as it has in the past? What happens when it runs up against the water wall? What happens when it grows so much, it outpaces the growth of its power grid and people have to sit in their ovens, correction, their houses in a blackout? Those are not problems solved quickly, nor cheaply. Even sidestepping the entire climate change debate, just look to the Desert Southwest's climatological past. It skews towards being drier than it has been in the 20th century:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs117-03/
Then there's something like this:
I don't see how central Arizona grows grows grows like it did in the mid-late 20th century. Demographers may say one thing, but area climate and resource availability say another thing.
About Columbus, yeah, it looks like a smart move on the NHL's part (one of the few). Even in 2000, Columbus was solidly in the top 50 markets in the US and it had no pro sports teams. Now, Cleveland may have been blocked by the Red Wings or Sabres potentially, but Cincinnati's support for the Reds & Bengals is below where it should be (Reds support is decent, but their new ballpark had a humiliating opening season in 2003. Better than some teams in other markets in the NFL & NHL. Bengals. Yeah I heard they came in 2nd when it came to football down there, with Ohio State coming in 1st), so Columbus seemed fairly smart. Maybe it was actually a stupid move that time itself bailed them out on. Who knows.
About Detroit, given its staggering fall, I'm surprised its teams haven't relocated to the suburbs. Only the Pistons are in the suburbs. Go figure. One would have assumed they would've been the last to leave. The decline doesn't seem to have hurt Tigers, Red Wings or Lions attendance. Are those areas safe (I've heard the Yankees play in a bad area but NYPD always provides good security for the ballpark and the walk to the nearest subway station) or are they in the few thriving (well, maybe just enduring) parts of Detroit?
Quid Pro Clowe
Registered User
What right would they have to stop it? This isn't the A's trying to move to San Jose, the Sharks don't own Sacramento's land rights.
cutchemist42
Registered User
I'd rather Portland and Sacremento over Seattle too TBH. NBA/NFL/MLS/UW Huskies is just too much that the NHL will be the 5th option in the area. (I do see MLS remaining more popular in the area then the NHL)
I honestly think Houston would work, but that lease agreement a few posters have copies of here shows why its not likely to happen unless a certain someone changes their mind.
I honestly think Houston would work, but that lease agreement a few posters have copies of here shows why its not likely to happen unless a certain someone changes their mind.
Nuclear SUV
Registered User
- Jun 1, 2008
- 570
- 2
Much of the growth in the Phoenix area is swallowing up farms which are more water intensive than what it's being replaced by.
Phoenix may be in a desert, but it is located at the base of mountains which collect water.
Nuclear SUV
Registered User
- Jun 1, 2008
- 570
- 2
Seattle is by far the best choice. The NHL has to have a team in the NW's hub city. It hurts the league to not have a team there.
Seattle can easily handle the NBA and NHL on top of what they already have. It is an excellent sports city that has led MLB, NBA, and MLS in total attendance multiple times while the Seahawks have sold out most of their games in their history & the Huskies have led the Pac-10 in total attendance a majority of the years over the last 25. The Mariners, Seahawks, and Huskies are regional or state wide teams, so the reach of Seattle sports extends well beyond the 4.4 million people in the metro area.
superdeluxe
NAFO
the Southeast Michigan conurbation is really, really sprawled out. 5 million people in a broad geographic area... getting from the far western end of it, Ann Arbor to the Palace in the far north could take upwards of a couple hours each way with traffic. All of the local freeways and major thoroughfares (Woodward, Jefferson and Michigan Avenues) are laid out in a hub and spoke pattern with downtown Detroit as the hub, making it easily the most convenient spot for everyone in the region to congregate and an ideal location for sporting facilities.
Downtown is essentially empty other than during office hours through the week or during events. It's close to becoming a thriving area, but there's still a lot of development needed. But very few from around this area would be afraid of going downtown at any time of day to see a game or go to the casino or whatever. And almost everyone would like to see Detroit come back... perhaps more than elsewhere, suburbanites here still consider ourselves to be Detroiters or from Detroit, nobody would want to see the sports teams which generate huge activity in the city leave.
