2010 Census data released (UPD 2013)

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by LadyStanley, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

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  2. danishh

    danishh Registered User

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    BTW, for those who may ask, Canada's is a 2011 census on may 10th. Population data will be available in Feb 2012.
     
  3. danishh

    danishh Registered User

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    25% growth in arizona?

    hmm......
     
  4. Rink Rage

    Rink Rage Registered User

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    Nevada up 35.1%
     
  5. Rink Rage

    Rink Rage Registered User

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    The South went 14.3% up. That being more than any other region.
    2nd being the west at 13.8%,
     
  6. danishh

    danishh Registered User

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    State Data:
    *For the purposes of this chart, DC area teams are counted once in each of virginia, maryland, and DC. Similarly, KC teams are double counted in Kansas and Missouri.
    **NYC baseball, football, and basketball teams are doublecounted in NY and NJ. Only the devils are counted for the NHL.

    observations:

    -Texas appears to be underserved. Houston is often thrown around as a potential NHL location, and this shows why.
    -Washington is a large, growing state with no NHL team. Once city data is available, seattle's rank vs other metropolitan areas or combined statistical areas will clarify if the NHL should make it a priority.
    -If the coyotes were to move, arizona would likely represent one of the top potential markets for the NHL.

    City Data:
    I included the top 51, because rochester and albany are essentially equivalent, though both are likely irrelevant to any discussion here.
    *The panthers were counted as miami. Yeah... i know, but it makes the most sense. Also of note, the green bay packers are not represented on this list, for obvious reasons.

    observations:

    - my expectations from above seem to be correct. Houston and Seattle are the two largest unserved markets for the NHL.
    - if phoenix were indeed abandoned, it would join that group.
    - 5 of the top 51 cities are shrinking. NO gets a pass for obvious reasons. Cleveland isnt an NHL market, but in retrospect maybe a very good choice by the NHL on the cleveland/columbus question. The other 3, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo, are core hockey markets. This may be a bit of a concern, but the hockey tradition in these cities combined with strong ownership (thanks pegula) should mitigate any fears of future nhl success.
    - kansas city may seem low on this list, but look at the other cities above it (ignoring houston, seattle, and phoenix of course).
    • San Diego/Sacramento - do you really think cali can support more than 3 NHL teams?
    • Cleveland/Cincinnati/Charlotte - these states have recent relos/expansions, and while not doing too poorly, i'd have to think there is a reason the NHL chose columbus and raleigh over these markets - the obvious one being competition.
    • San Antonio - NBA competition for a city that size, NBA team that owns arena and AHL team, and there is a much better option for a 2nd team in texas.
    - that leaves portland, which is probably a better hockey market than KC, but, as all portland convos go... Paul Allen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2011
  7. Melrose Munch

    Melrose Munch Registered User

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    Jesus Danishh! Great Job :)
     
  8. JacketsFanWest

    JacketsFanWest Registered User

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    Thought this article about the Ohio census data was interesting in terms of pro sports in Ohio and Columbus:

    From non-Ohioans I've talked to about who seem shocked/surprised/angry that Columbus has an NHL team, they tend to be unaware that Columbus is the largest city in Ohio and the only one that's really growing. Cincinnati and Cleveland (who no one questions having pro-sports franchises) are dying cities.
     
  9. ClassLessCoyote

    ClassLessCoyote Staying classy

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    This is strange! I had heard that NY State actually lost over 2 million people over the last 10-15 years, hence why they lost congressional seats in the recent past.
     
  10. MayDay

    MayDay Registered User

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    I think it will take some time for perception to catch up with reality. Cleveland and Cincinnati have been big league pro sports towns forever (the Reds and the Browns and Indians go back generations), and Columbus hasn't.

    I know that I had always thought of Columbus as a small, college town, and was quite surprised the first time I learned that it was actually larger than either Cleveland or Cincinnati.

    I think that the NHL was actually quite savvy in putting an expansion team in Columbus. Ohio is a big northern state, and it's a good idea to have a team there. And as stated, Cincy and Cleveland are shrinking and already saturated with pro-sports. Columbus is growing and has no other major pro sports competition, and only has to coexist with Ohio State football.

    I don't know why people so vehemently deride the choice of Columbus. I think it was brilliant, and once the Jackets finally put some competitive seasons together, it will be a smashing success.
     
  11. Melrose Munch

    Melrose Munch Registered User

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    For starters, there is way more corporate support in Cinncinati.
     
  12. MayDay

    MayDay Registered User

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    New York State did lose millions of people, but gained slightly more than it lost because of immigration, mostly to the downstate region. Resulting in only a slight increase overall.

    The state lost congressional seats because it did not grow nearly as fast as other states in the south and west.
     
  13. obsenssive*

    obsenssive* Guest

    this is some scary shid.
     
  14. htpwn

    htpwn Registered User

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    I'm curious to how cities such as Buffalo and Detroit fared? Not too well I presume?
     
  15. Melrose Munch

    Melrose Munch Registered User

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    Its bad bro... People are saying detroit is at 790k :blush:
     
  16. straka91*

    straka91* Guest

    Iowa finally hit 3 million. Hope Nebraska hits 2 million by 2020.
     
  17. MayDay

    MayDay Registered User

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    The Buffalo-Niagara Falls metropolitan area is down about 4% in the last decade, from about 1.17 million, to about 1.12 million.

    Don't look at the city population itself, which is misleading. Most of the people in WNY (and most of the hockey fans, for that matter) now live in the suburbs. So you have to look at the metropolitan area.

    A 4% drop is not-so-great, but it's much less of a loss than in previous decades. WNY's population decline may be bottoming-out.
     
  18. Melrose Munch

    Melrose Munch Registered User

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    MayDay,

    I am suprieed Buffalo has not dropped beyond 1 million yet. They seem to be holding out. Any reasons why?
     
  19. MayDay

    MayDay Registered User

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    The population within the city itself has shrunk a lot in past decades (from over 500K to under 300K).

    But (as in many other American cities in the latter half of the 20th Century) much of that decline consisted of people simply moving a few miles away to the suburbs. Many of Buffalo's suburbs have seen considerable growth in recent decades.

    Don't get me wrong, western NY as a whole has been hurt by continued economic stagnation and has shrunk in population. But oftentimes people only look at the city's population only, and get an exaggerated sense of that loss. That's misleading for the purposes of discussion on this board, since many hockey fans, and fans of other pro sports, are suburbanites. Need to look at the metropolitan area as a whole.
     
  20. Melrose Munch

    Melrose Munch Registered User

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    Sprawl in Lockport and Orchard Park is awful. It's just odd to me because Places like Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have lost way more and even their suburbs are losing. What has Buffalo done in comparison to those areas?
     
  21. MayDay

    MayDay Registered User

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    Nothing.

    Places like Pittsburgh and Cleveland just started out with more people to lose.

    The problem with Buffalo is that it still hasn't found some primary industry or economic activity to replace what was lost when the steel industry left town. It doesn't have to be manufacturing anymore, but it has to be something.

    I think Buffalo really needs to take advantage of its geographic location, right on the border, and adjacent to the golden horseshoe, the major population center of Canada. Canada and the US are each other's largest trading partner, and Buffalo stands right at crossroads between major population centers in both countries. The city needs to somehow take advantage of its location better. Perhaps seek better integration into the golden horseshoe economy.
     
  22. MoreOrr

    MoreOrr B4

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    If we take the December, 2010, Population estimates, the United States population was 309,183,463.

    Now if we subtract out:
    Hawaii 1,366,862
    Alaska 721,523
    Florida 18,900,773
    Louisiana 4,553,962

    We get:
    309,183,463
    -25,543,120
    =283,640,343

    283,640,000 (rounded off)

    Next the October, 2010, Population estimates for Canada, 34,238,000.

    And now:
    34,238,000 divided by 283,640,000
    = 0.12%

    0.12% of 30 teams = 3.6 teams

    ** Subtracted out Hawaii, Alaska, Florida, and Louisiana just to accommodate the thinking that not all of the US would be appropriate for hockey.

    Of course, Florida has two NHL teams, but one could argue that having the NHL in Florida is akin to having MLB in Alaska or the Yukon (if those places had cities the likes of those in Florida).

    Sorry for this post, it's just something I had an idea to post the other day, and then this thread came along and it seemed as appropriate a place as any to put the post.
     
  23. Mwd711

    Mwd711 Registered User

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    Columbus is a great city, but it's still a medium sized market. The Cleveland and Cincy areas are still larger than Metro Columbus in total population. The main reason that Columbus as a city continues to grow is that they have annexed surrounding land. Instead of it being a suburban community, it counts as being in the city itself. By land size, Columbus is one of the largest cities in the U.S. but it has a very low density compared to most large American cities. What is normally considered the burbs in most cities, makes up much of Columbus.

    And yes, while Cleveland itself is shrinking, the metro area is holding up decently. It's a matter of suburban flight like in most urban cities. Detroit and Pittsburgh are perfect examples of that. As you posted above, Metro populations are always the most accurate when it comes to a region's population.
     
  24. S E P H

    S E P H @SEPH_WHL

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    Colorado - 16.91% of 16.92% are Californians.
     
  25. Franck

    Franck eltiT resU motsuC

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    Interesting that Michigan is the only state to be in decline, and a very small one at that.
     

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