2007 USA team, whats next?

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PuckFan01

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AmericanDream said:
Jimmy O'brien is the guy that I cant wait to see the most. This kid could have the hype of Phile Kessel come WJC time, and dont think for one second that he isnt in the #1 overall talk come draft time next year. This kid is dynamic and just getting started to show off his talent. I hope he makes this team next year, he would be a force to handle.

I am looking forward to see him play at Minnesota next year. He is pretty young though so he may not make an immediate impact at that level.
 

orangeandblack

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AmericanDream said:
that could be a good looking team. i like the mix of speedsters and bruisers. i am a huge fan of Dan Collins, and on my original post i didnt put his name, but he is definitely someone that i would love to see get the chance to make this team. are you implying that Jack Johnson will be in the NHL next year with his omission? and luke lynes, you are pretty high on him, I dont know if i would take him over Inderieden, Geoffrion, or Abdelkader. otherwise another huge team on"paper" for the Americans, hope this one translates better on ice.

i think johnson will be the only one from this team that will be in the nhl, and not released to play. i tried to give this team a good combo of different types of players. id really like to see someone paired with kessel and ryan that can get them the puck, even a small guy like nikiforov or john kemp, dont know if they'll make the cut though.

yea dan collins has real good speed and a heavy shot, could be a good 3rd liner, and i know the usa brass really likes him. ill take lynes over the 3 guys you mentioned. geoffrion is too inconsistent, we'll have to see about him, but hes a nice aggressive player. abdelkader has kind of lost some hype, see how he does in the 2nd half. inderieden is playing hs hockey and is he even playing ncaa next year? could be a similiar situation to oshie, but i dont know how high usa is on him right now, maybe a sleeper.
 

fatsunny

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The US has enough talent to win Gold in this tourney, although it will take a more team approach and a defense first approach. Coaching and team selection is also critical and Canada won in that department this year.

Next year the US will have more second year players and will be a stronger team. If they pick well and focus on the above, they will metal and should have a chance at the gold.
 

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Just curious. What's the general thought on Michael Sauer? I saw two people mention him and I thought I'd see more. Wanted to see an unbiased outside opinion as most Rangers fans are excited about Sauer (if he stays healthy).
 

Rabid Ranger

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Juan said:
The US tied/lost to Canada and Russia because the US hit them too much. Right. :shakehead

As a Canadian, I would love for you to send a career college coach like Red or Lucia - guys who have very little experience coaching against the style that Canadians use to success in the WJC.

And by all means send Jackson as well. In his time in Guelph, he showed me zero positivity on the bench or ability to rally his players and motivate them to play with emotion, which I would argue are critical factors to success at the WJC - at least they always are for Canada.

I think that's a fair point. When the U.S. won gold, we had Mike Eaves behind the bench, who is a great motivator and is very passionate about the sport. He was clearly able to rally his team, a team that wasn't as good on paper as the last two U.S. WJC squads. Maybe he or Constantine should get a shot next year?
 

Oilers Chick

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Juan said:
Let's just call a spade a spade, because I am sure a lot of people on here are thinking the same thing:

Forget about nationalities. Other than the occasional fluke, in the WJC tournament format, a team comprised predominantly of NTDP/NCAA players will rarely if ever outperform a team comprised predominantly of CHL players.

The style of play, the shortness and intensity of the tournament - I think they all favour players who developed their games in the CHL. "The success of the NTDP is not gauged on wins and losses, but on the development of skills and acquiring experience", according to their website. That's very sweet, but show me someone who isn't concerned with winning, and I'll show you a loser.

These players then go on to the NCAA, where they never have to grind out a 4 out of 7 playoff series; they play two games over a weekend and wait a week to play again; they see more hitting, smothering defense and in-your-face hockey in a single game against Canada than they do in four years worth of Beanpot Tournaments.

Sorry if I am offending the pro-NCAA crowd, but if anyone can think of a better reason for the USA's annual World Junior pooch screwing, I'm all ears.

First off, in regards to your anti-NCAA rant as far as WJCs are concerned...either you have a very selective memory or you're not paying much attention.

FYI, Team Canada thought enough of four NCAA players to put them on the team. Andrew Cogliano and Jonathan Toews (from what I understand) had very good showings for Canada. The NCAA must be doing SOMETHING right, if Team Canada consistently looks at the many Canadian players who dot the US collegiate hockey landscape and even goes so far as to place four players on their most recent roster. I would also say (contrary to the vast majority of opinions here) that USA Hockey DOES seriously look closely at the Americans playing in the CHL for their team as well. Now whether any or many are actually selected isn't known until the announcement is made (or just before). This year, USA Hockey happened to pick Schremp, Ryan and Mueller (did I miss anyone?).

Would more CHLers made a difference in the way Team USA played this year? That would probably depend upon who you ask. Many folks keeping up with Team USA think that team chemistry (or lack thereof) was a huge factor in Team USA's demise. Personally, I don't think more CHLers would've solved that problem, especially if it was as bad as some people have made it out to be.

Now I'm going to get into the whole NCAA vs. CHL debate again. It's gotten WAY too tired and no one is presenting anything new. Same crap, different thread.
 

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monster_bertuzzi said:
Am I the only one confused as to how Taylor Chorney made this years squad over AJ Thelen...

Yeah, but I thought Brian Lee was terrible. Bad decision making and slow to react were just a couple of the things I noticed w/Lee. Definitely didn't look like a 1st round pick, never mind 9th overall. Like I said before the tourney started, USA brass made a mistake not adding guys like Yandle, Thelen, Lashoff, Sauer, etc. It was the same last year with guys like Fitzgerald, Byfuglien, etc.
 

MN_Gopher

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The thing about being NCAA vs CHL is pretty valid. Guys like Lee and Niskanen and others only have played about 20 or so games out of the high school. That makes a big difference compared to guys in the CHL that have played many more games and in some cases a few full seasons. I do not think its a talent thing. Even Shattucks guys and USNTP players have a bit of a hard time. Allthough they are traditionaly better so they do not look out of place. Would be nice if the tourny could be at the end of the season. As the freshmen in the NCAA will be getting much better in these next few months.

Thelen would have looked really nice. A guy that is in his third season of playing major ameatuer hockey. Aslo if Hagemo had not been hurt. The US D would have been much better with those two veterans.
 

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MN_Gopher said:
The thing about being NCAA vs CHL is pretty valid. Guys like Lee and Niskanen and others only have played about 20 or so games out of the high school. That makes a big difference compared to guys in the CHL that have played many more games and in some cases a few full seasons. I do not think its a talent thing. Even Shattucks guys and USNTP players have a bit of a hard time. Allthough they are traditionaly better so they do not look out of place. Would be nice if the tourny could be at the end of the season. As the freshmen in the NCAA will be getting much better in these next few months.

Thelen would have looked really nice. A guy that is in his third season of playing major ameatuer hockey. Aslo if Hagemo had not been hurt. The US D would have been much better with those two veterans.

Yeah, Canada would have been much better with Crosby and Brule too.
 

Juan

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Oilers Chick said:
First off, in regards to your anti-NCAA rant as far as WJCs are concerned...either you have a very selective memory or you're not paying much attention.

FYI, Team Canada thought enough of four NCAA players to put them on the team. Andrew Cogliano and Jonathan Toews (from what I understand) had very good showings for Canada. The NCAA must be doing SOMETHING right, if Team Canada consistently looks at the many Canadian players who dot the US collegiate hockey landscape and even goes so far as to place four players on their most recent roster. I would also say (contrary to the vast majority of opinions here) that USA Hockey DOES seriously look closely at the Americans playing in the CHL for their team as well. Now whether any or many are actually selected isn't known until the announcement is made (or just before). This year, USA Hockey happened to pick Schremp, Ryan and Mueller (did I miss anyone?).

Would more CHLers made a difference in the way Team USA played this year? That would probably depend upon who you ask. Many folks keeping up with Team USA think that team chemistry (or lack thereof) was a huge factor in Team USA's demise. Personally, I don't think more CHLers would've solved that problem, especially if it was as bad as some people have made it out to be.

Now I'm going to get into the whole NCAA vs. CHL debate again. It's gotten WAY too tired and no one is presenting anything new. Same crap, different thread.

Apparently you don't know what the word predominantly means, because your comments about four out of 22 players on Team Canada being from the NCAA proves my point, not yours.

I am not anti-NCAA. I am anti-choking and anti-losing. For the USA at the WJC, the proof is in the pudding when it comes to their predominantly NCAA rosters.
 

MN_Gopher

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Juan said:
Apparently you don't know what the word predominantly means, because your comments about four out of 22 players on Team Canada being from the NCAA proves my point, not yours.

I am not anti-NCAA. I am anti-choking and anti-losing. For the USA at the WJC, the proof is in the pudding when it comes to their predominantly NCAA rosters.


It is in the pudding when we find this years Parise and Eaves we will win Gold again. But i guess they choked too huh. They should have won Platnium that year not just gold. Remember that Canada is better in hockey than the US, in both junior and pro ranks. One gold every four years is ok with me.
 

Juan

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MN_Gopher said:
It is in the pudding when we find this years Parise and Eaves we will win Gold again. But i guess they choked too huh. They should have won Platnium that year not just gold. Remember that Canada is better in hockey than the US, in both junior and pro ranks. One gold every four years is ok with me.

It's not one gold every four years. It's one gold in almost 30 years, since the current format started.

Let me finish by summarizing my position as follows: the U.S. should try something decidedly different at the WJC.

They should have a pre-tournament camp like Canada does, in addition to a summer camp. If the college kids can't miss classes to be at the camp, too bad.

They should have a current or recent CHL coach as head coach (I think someone suggested Kevin Constantine, whom I think would be great).

The should make a strong effort to put together a club that is at least 50% CHL players, especially their defensemen.

Let's see how that works. It doesn't hurt to try, given the results up until now.

Interesting that you mentioned Parise and Eaves from the gold medal team, when your two best players in the championship game were Fritsche and O'Sullivan, two CHL players.
 
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5mn Major

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Juan said:
It's not one gold every four years. It's one gold in almost 30 years, since the current format started.

The should make a strong effort to put together a club that is at least 50% CHL players, especially their defensemen.

Assuming your not just taking another swipe...uh...no.

Its Canadas youth program and surrounding participatory culture that results in Canada's talent depth and therefore junior programs success...the CHL plays by far the minor role.

On hockey talent per capita, Minnesota ranks with much of Canada (and in some cases better) in player development as seen in NHL drafts. Not because the CHL is in MN, but because of its excellent kids programs, girls programs and participatory hockey culture. Many Canadians may not understand this, but very few parts of the US have sizable youth programs...indeed most areas in the US just have primarily NHL fans and that's about it.

So no...the US shouldn't load its junior teams with CHL players as it would make matters much worse. In fact, I for one am quite satisfied with the progress the program is making.
 
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RUSqueelin*

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5mn Major said:
Assuming your not just taking another swipe...uh...no.

Its Canadas youth program and surrounding participatory culture that results in Canada's talent depth and therefore junior programs success...the CHL plays by far the minor role.

On hockey talent per capita, Minnesota ranks with much of Canada (and in some cases better) in player development as seen in NHL drafts. Not because the CHL is in MN, but because of its excellent kids programs, girls programs and participatory hockey culture. Many Canadians may not understand this, but very few parts of the US have sizable youth programs...indeed most areas in the US just have primarily NHL fans and that's about it.

So no...the US shouldn't load its junior teams with CHL players as it would make matters much worse. In fact, I for one am quite satisfied with the progress the program is making.

dont' worry about it bud. The US has more youths in minor hockey then all of Canada right now. Will it mean gold for the US every year in 15 years from now. NOPE. Canada lives and breathes the sport. The best athletes in Canada play the sport.

Who cares where the "boys" play their junior hockey or uni hockey. The US's only concern is their coaching staff and managment. I've never seen Rob Schremp so misused in a game before.

All this could have been avoided if the US didn't let the Swiss tie up their hockey game. How fickle the game of hockey can become. (if you don't believe me, ask any Canadian what they think of the goaltending performaces against them in the 96 world cup and 98 Olympics)
 
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MN_Gopher

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Juan said:
It's not one gold every four years. It's one gold in almost 30 years, since the current format started.

Let me finish by summarizing my position as follows: the U.S. should try something decidedly different at the WJC.

They should have a pre-tournament camp like Canada does, in addition to a summer camp. If the college kids can't miss classes to be at the camp, too bad.

They should have a current or recent CHL coach as head coach (I think someone suggested Kevin Constantine, whom I think would be great).

The should make a strong effort to put together a club that is at least 50% CHL players, especially their defensemen.

Let's see how that works. It doesn't hurt to try, given the results up until now.

Interesting that you mentioned Parise and Eaves from the gold medal team, when your two best players in the championship game were Fritsche and O'Sullivan, two CHL players.


If we wanna go back 30 years. Yes the USA has had it bad. Do you think that maybe the US was no where close to Canada in junior hockey? We, the USA, has come around in the last 5-6 years. Look at the 97 draft, not one NCAA guy in the first round. 98, van ryan is the only NCAA gut taken. Now 99 there are 3 NCAA guys taken. See the trend. Now in 2003 you have eight. Now in the 2006 the top three picks might belong to the NCAA. And three americans in the top 5. I am not ready to through the baby out with the bath water on using NCAA guys just yet.
 

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MN_Gopher said:
If we wanna go back 30 years. Yes the USA has had it bad. Do you think that maybe the US was no where close to Canada in junior hockey? We, the USA, has come around in the last 5-6 years. Look at the 97 draft, not one NCAA guy in the first round. 98, van ryan is the only NCAA gut taken. Now 99 there are 3 NCAA guys taken. See the trend. Now in 2003 you have eight. Now in the 2006 the top three picks might belong to the NCAA. And three americans in the top 5. I am not ready to through the baby out with the bath water on using NCAA guys just yet.


Things do go in cycles. In 1990, seven NCAA or NCAA bound players were chosen during the first 30 selections. After that it was an average of 3-4 players until the mid to late 90's. The last two years have been pretty good for the NCAA, the question remains if they will be able to sustain it, however. Currently, there are 8 NCAA or NCAA bound players ranked by the CSB in the top 30. That is significantly less than the 22 CHL players ranked for a first round selection.

There is no question that the U.S. brain trust left off some very important CHL players who could have had a significant impact. Yandle was a glaring omission/error as was not selecting Brandon Dubinsky.

Canada in the past has left off NCAA players who ought to have made the team, but Canada's depth gives them that luxury. The U.S. does not have that opportunity and it really needs to rid itself of its pro NCAA stance.

Juan is right, drastic changes need to be made and we need to select the best regardless of where they are playing.
 

MN_Gopher

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Well Schremp and Ryan just outplayed everyone in the whole tourney right? They must have just dominated right? Um, No they did not. And if you say it was the coaching. I ll agree but those two were not the only ones mis used. Blame the coach and the staff for not geting the team organized. It had nothing to do with where the players were from.
 

Rounder

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MN_Gopher said:
Well Schremp and Ryan just outplayed everyone in the whole tourney right? They must have just dominated right? Um, No they did not. And if you say it was the coaching. I ll agree but those two were not the only ones mis used. Blame the coach and the staff for not geting the team organized. It had nothing to do with where the players were from.[/Q

No Schremp and Ryan did not outplay everyone, they were also not put in the same positions to suceed as the players from the U.S.N.D.T. The coaching staff and the U.S program administrators lost both players from the beginning of the tourney with their obvious infatuation with Kessel and other developmental program players. I would love to take a team of American C.H.L players vs a group of same aged N.C.A.A players, NO CONTEST
 

time

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MN_Gopher said:
if you think the CHL is a more physical league it may be. Only by the way the refs call a game. If you think the CHL are more physical players you need your head examined.

The CHL is rougher hockey than the NHL. The hits aren't as heavy, the players aren't as big, but these are pumped up teenagers looking for a shot at the big leagues. I have never seen hockey as chippy (and often dirty) as you see at your average OHL game.

I don't celebrate that fact, mind you, but it does demonstrate why draft day is littered with hot American prospects who don't live up to their hype. It's not that they are not big or skilled enough; it's just that no one knows how they are going to react when another player literally tries to knock their teeth out (even Crosby was "welcomed" to the NHL in this manner).

The CHL weeds out players who fold when the game gets violent (again, this is not necessarily a good thing -- but it is a fact).
 

5mn Major

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I would love to take a team of American C.H.L players vs a group of same aged N.C.A.A players, NO CONTEST

I know that's why NCAA players are on the team.

Again, the CHL plays only a small part...its Canada's youth programs and hockey culture that makes Canadian junior hockey what it is. I know because Minnesota is one of the few places in the US that has the same kind of youth programs and hockey culture. Listen if American 14 and 15 year olds beat Canadian kids of the same age continuously...then one could make a case that the CHL turns around Canadian development by the time kids reached 19 and makes a signifcant difference. Alas such is not the case.

Thankfully, Team USA doesn't make the above mistake and that when draft day comes nhl scouts see through this kind of rhetoric.
 

MN_Gopher

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time said:
The CHL is rougher hockey than the NHL. The hits aren't as heavy, the players aren't as big, but these are pumped up teenagers looking for a shot at the big leagues. I have never seen hockey as chippy (and often dirty) as you see at your average OHL game.

I don't celebrate that fact, mind you, but it does demonstrate why draft day is littered with hot American prospects who don't live up to their hype. It's not that they are not big or skilled enough; it's just that no one knows how they are going to react when another player literally tries to knock their teeth out (even Crosby was "welcomed" to the NHL in this manner).

The CHL weeds out players who fold when the game gets violent (again, this is not necessarily a good thing -- but it is a fact).

The thing i never get then is how do guys like Bouchard then survive the CHL only to need 4 years to catch up to the NHL. Where guys like Paul Martin. A bean in skates adapted to a full NHL season and the physical play with basically only one rough week to start the season. And Ballard has opened an eye to his recklass/fearless style. Forgot who he fought but Matt Greene just gave some guy a hand full.

But i guess i like watching hockey and not Lord of the Flies ice capades.
 

MN_Gopher

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Rounder said:
MN_Gopher said:
Well Schremp and Ryan just outplayed everyone in the whole tourney right? They must have just dominated right? Um, No they did not. And if you say it was the coaching. I ll agree but those two were not the only ones mis used. Blame the coach and the staff for not geting the team organized. It had nothing to do with where the players were from.[/Q

No Schremp and Ryan did not outplay everyone, they were also not put in the same positions to suceed as the players from the U.S.N.D.T. The coaching staff and the U.S program administrators lost both players from the beginning of the tourney with their obvious infatuation with Kessel and other developmental program players. I would love to take a team of American C.H.L players vs a group of same aged N.C.A.A players, NO CONTEST


Do you know who Muelller and Towes are? If you look up the ages. 15 days apart. Towes has 13 points in 22 NCAA games. Mueller has 41 poionts in 34 WHL games. Yet Towes is still a better prospect. The NCAA seems to be alot tougher on young players doesn't it?

If you watch Gopher hockey which i can tell you do not. Kessel was greatly miss used as well. It was not lets tank the CHL guys. This not the California penal league. The USA is not going to go out of their way to make certain players look bad.

Whats better PR. Look the NCAA guys had more success in 4th place. Or look kids, American hockey gold. Keep it up guys. Gold will get more kids playing.
 
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