2007 USA team, whats next?

[MN_Gopher]

You're delusional. Last years Team Canada World Junior team would have beaten handily anything the US Colleges could send.

The team overall would have had. Eaves, Collins, Guerrieo, Sertich, Sterling, Gauthier, Shannon, Stempniak and more. With guys like Irmen and Nystrom playing a 4th line checking role maybe.

On D it would have been. Matt and Andy Greene, Alberts, Welch, Carle, Stuart, Yandle, Cashman. And more

Goal would have been Jimmy Howard and David McKee.

And again thats just taking a quick look at last year. A totally different team then the one that was sent. You have to remember some of these guys are 21-24 years old. It makes a world of difference. No way that team losses.

 

[thomasincanada]

And again thats just taking a quick look at last year. A totally different team then the one that was sent. You have to remember some of these guys are 21-24 years old. It makes a world of difference. No way that team losses.

I respectfully disagree. The talent gap was too much for the US team to overcome regardless of having a few more years maturity.

Crosby, Phaneuf, Perry, Bergeron, Carter, Richards, Seabrook, Ladd, Getzlaf. Just plain too much talent (just look at what some of those guys are doing in the NHL less than a year later)

 

[Juan]

The team overall would have had. Eaves, Collins, Guerrieo, Sertich, Sterling, Gauthier, Shannon, Stempniak and more. With guys like Irmen and Nystrom playing a 4th line checking role maybe.

On D it would have been. Matt and Andy Greene, Alberts, Welch, Carle, Stuart, Yandle, Cashman. And more

Goal would have been Jimmy Howard and David McKee.

And again thats just taking a quick look at last year. A totally different team then the one that was sent. You have to remember some of these guys are 21-24 years old. It makes a world of difference. No way that team losses.

What are you talking about?? The WJC is a U-20 tournament. If I am hearing you correctly, you are saying, "If the USA could send players from the NCAA who are over 20, they could beat anybody". If that is in fact what you are saying, that's idiotic unless you let Canada take the CHL-eligible players who have been in the NHL/AHL over the years - guys like Crosby, Nash, Spezza, Staal, Horton, etc.

 

[orangeandblack]

mn_gopher your completely wrong on this. i dont even know what your arguing, an ncaa allstar team (regardless of age) would still have gotten absolutely smoked by last years canadian wjc team of future nhl stars. i understand your pro-ncaa, but in the case of the wjc's i garee with juan, the usa needs more of a chl presence on their team. they've tried the ncaa weighted approached, its worked once, now try something different.

heres my usa team for 07
forwards
kessel (87)
ryan (87)
skille (87)
gerbe (87)
mueller (88)
nick foligno (87)
pat kane (88)
ryan flynn (88)
justin mercier (87)
dan collins (87)
luke lynes (87)
kyle okposo (88)
mike forney (88)
(alts; vlad nikiforov, justin abdelkader, zach mcvoy, jimmy fraser, tim kraus, chad rau, trevor lewis, blake geoffrion, rhett rahkshani, jimmy o'brien, others)

defense
erik johnson (88)
mark mitera (87)
brian lee (87)
taylor chorney (87)
joey ryan (87)
bobby saguinetti (88)
michael sauer (87)
(alts; chris summers, zach jones, nigel williams, tim kunes, nick petrecki, brandon gentile, others)

goalies
frazee (87)
billy sauer (88)
(alts; connelly, palmer, conway)

 

[espo*]

if you think the CHL is a more physical league it may be. Only by the way the refs call a game. If you think the CHL are more physical players you need your head examined.

it's a more physical league for sure gopher.I'll leave the players stuff out of it but the league itself and what the players see on a nightly basis,hell yeah.Chl is more physical.

 

[thomasincanada]

mn_gopher your completely wrong on this. i dont even know what your arguing, an ncaa allstar team (regardless of age) would still have gotten absolutely smoked by last years canadian wjc team of future nhl stars. i understand your pro-ncaa, but in the case of the wjc's i garee with juan, the usa needs more of a chl presence on their team. they've tried the ncaa weighted approached, its worked once, now try something different.

I appreciate his optimism, but he overrates the age factor in the NCAA, when you're going against Phaneuf,Carter and Crosby, a couple of years maturity isn't going to help much.

As an outsider looking in, what I think the US *really* needs is a coach with a vision. He should have a team in mind and pick players and prepare them to be that team. It doesn't really matter where the players come from - the CHL or the NCAA - what matters is whether they fit his plan. It's what Sutter and Gretzky have done with much success and I think the US could learn from this.

I personally don't think playing the CHL guys more would have made much of a difference as there was no chemistry to begin with.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I guess i am i minority here. To me 18 year olds are not up to par with mid low twenty guys. I have played summer league basketball and played in many football games and camps. I played against guys who are now in the NFL and NBA. In some cases i was older and better than some, equal with others and a few were better. Its like would you rather have had Kirby Law or Crosby 3 years ago. When they were both at Shattucks Parise was better than Crosby. The gap narrows with age but i think that is about 22 years old. Phanuef and Crosby are playing very very well this year. But thats two, not the whole Canadian team. And high school all star teams will loose to any D1 program almost all D2 programs and most D3 programs.

In Crosby and AO case three years will be the difference between top 20 to 1-2 in the league. I do not think most people give age that big of an advantage.

 

[MN_Gopher]

You guys do know Jordan was cut from varsity basketball as a freshman in HS. Guys like Heatley did not lead his team in scoring in his freshman campaign. Kessel, Potulny and Irmen are a toss up for top player on the gophers. Leopold and Martin were worlds ahead of Ballard when Ballard was a freshman. Look what a few years did for Staal and Spezza.

 

[RUSqueelin*]

You guys do know Jordan was cut from varsity basketball as a freshman in HS. Guys like Heatley did not lead his team in scoring in his freshman campaign. Kessel, Potulny and Irmen are a toss up for top player on the gophers. Leopold and Martin were worlds ahead of Ballard when Ballard was a freshman. Look what a few years did for Staal and Spezza.

as astute fan of junior hockey, I can appreciate what a years age difference can mean to a players development. What you are talking about is a general rule. Well, last years Can WJ team is the exception to that rule. You list a bunch of players most of us will never hear of. Not only was that team filled with a complete roster of future NHL (some superstars) 19 year olds (not 18 year olds), some of them would have been playing in the NHL last year had there been a year. Talk your NCAA blinders off on this one.

 

[thomasincanada]

I guess i am i minority here. To me 18 year olds are not up to par with mid low twenty guys.

On average you are most certainly correct, but those were the best 19 year olds in the CHL, in one of the best years for the CHL. They were physically mature, smart, fast... you name it. These were not kids - these were a bunker crop on CHL players at least 5 of whom should have been playing in the NHL last year, with more ready this year.

Those NCAA guys you named just weren't at the same calibre... and age can't make that much of a difference. When you watched Team Canada this year, did you not notice how physically mature and hard hitting they were? They won games by being more physical than every team they played. Canada was even stronger last year (with infinately more scoring).

 

[PuckFan01]

When they were both at Shattucks Parise was better than Crosby.

They were never at Shattuck at the same time.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Team Canada was hard hitting, and they were the more physical team when they played the US. But like i said those same kids that got man handled by the Canadian team are getting the same thing here in the NCAA. Whether you agree with what Kessel did or not. He did lead the tourney in scoring. And he is currently tied for 8th with four guys in scoring in the WCHA. Cogliano 4th on his team in scoring, Towes 8th on his team, Oshie 3rd on his team. The NCAA sent a JV team out there.

Yes last years Canadin team was good and many were ahead of their age. And it would have been a good game. In 2-3 years that team might be their majority of their next Olympic team. But we are not talking about success in the future. That team playing last year against the top NCAA guys might not have won gold. And in most years the NCAA would win no problem.

 

[RayLeeCharles]

The best U-20 guys from the NCAA wouldnt have beat last years Team Canada. That was one of the better teams that tourney has seen hands down. Whats the discussion about anyway, WJC's is for U-20 players so its a moot point about the NCAA players who were over the 85' age limit

 

[AgentNaslund*]

not to spoil the all american party here, but Canada can have a possible 12 returnees next year. Including

Bourdon who will not make VAncouver next year
Parent
Staal
Pouliout (will return with a vengence cause he sucked)
Cogliano,
Toews (at will return alot better)
Downie

those guys i listed is likely not to make the NHL too.

so yea.

 

[Alter Haudegen]

not to spoil the all american party here, but Canada can have a possible 12 returnees next year. Including

Bourdon who will not make VAncouver next year
Parent
Staal
Pouliout (will return with a vengence cause he sucked)
Cogliano,
Toews (at will return alot better)
Downie

those guys i listed is likely not to make the NHL too.

so yea.

Pouliot will not return, since he is not eligible. He is a late '86 born.

 

[orangeandblack]

Pouliot will not return, since he is not eligible. He is a late '86 born.

i wouldnt count downie out as a flyer next year either. the kid is a stud, and hes got the type of game hitch and clarkie love, and could play in the nhl next year. the only thing that holds him back is how much talent the flyers already have.

 

[thomasincanada]

i wouldnt count downie out as a flyer next year either. the kid is a stud, and hes got the type of game hitch and clarkie love, and could play in the nhl next year. the only thing that holds him back is how much talent the flyers already have.

I like Downie, but I just don't see him in the NHL next year.

 

[AmericanDream]

I am not sure conditioning played that much of a factor into it but the U.S. left off some very solid CHL players who would have made a difference.

The downfall to both the 05 and 06 U.S. teams was a soft defense and their inability to cope with a physical style. Despite what some little gopher on this board might tell you, the NCAA is much less physical than the CHL. In both the Russia and Canada game, the American defense had a difficult time coping with the intense forechecking and battling along the wall and down low.

I truly hope that changes will be made in the way USA Hockey chooses its team.

please let me use the crackpipe you are smoking! we werent physical enough??? hahahaha we had two of the most intimidating blueliners in the Johnsons who outplayed anyone in this tourney with its physical play. did you watch any games? we didnt lose because we got out hit, we lost because we probably did way too much hitting, which the refs didnt know how to call. we also lost because this team had to many individual parts and not enough teamwork. that falls on the coaches shoulder, which I hope Mr. Kyle is not invited back next year. We need a Berenson, Lucia, or my personal favorite Jeff Jackson to lead this squad next year. we didnt hit enough.....that gave me the best laugh I had all year!

 

[AmericanDream]

mn_gopher your completely wrong on this. i dont even know what your arguing, an ncaa allstar team (regardless of age) would still have gotten absolutely smoked by last years canadian wjc team of future nhl stars. i understand your pro-ncaa, but in the case of the wjc's i garee with juan, the usa needs more of a chl presence on their team. they've tried the ncaa weighted approached, its worked once, now try something different.

heres my usa team for 07
forwards
kessel (87)
ryan (87)
skille (87)
gerbe (87)
mueller (88)
nick foligno (87)
pat kane (88)
ryan flynn (88)
justin mercier (87)
dan collins (87)
luke lynes (87)
kyle okposo (88)
mike forney (88)
(alts; vlad nikiforov, justin abdelkader, zach mcvoy, jimmy fraser, tim kraus, chad rau, trevor lewis, blake geoffrion, rhett rahkshani, jimmy o'brien, others)

defense
erik johnson (88)
mark mitera (87)
brian lee (87)
taylor chorney (87)
joey ryan (87)
bobby saguinetti (88)
michael sauer (87)
(alts; chris summers, zach jones, nigel williams, tim kunes, nick petrecki, brandon gentile, others)

goalies
frazee (87)
billy sauer (88)
(alts; connelly, palmer, conway)

that could be a good looking team. i like the mix of speedsters and bruisers. i am a huge fan of Dan Collins, and on my original post i didnt put his name, but he is definitely someone that i would love to see get the chance to make this team. are you implying that Jack Johnson will be in the NHL next year with his omission? and luke lynes, you are pretty high on him, I dont know if i would take him over Inderieden, Geoffrion, or Abdelkader. otherwise another huge team on"paper" for the Americans, hope this one translates better on ice.

 

[Juan]

please let me use the crackpipe you are smoking! we werent physical enough??? hahahaha we had two of the most intimidating blueliners in the Johnsons who outplayed anyone in this tourney with its physical play. did you watch any games? we didnt lose because we got out hit, we lost because we probably did way too much hitting, which the refs didnt know how to call. we also lost because this team had to many individual parts and not enough teamwork. that falls on the coaches shoulder, which I hope Mr. Kyle is not invited back next year. We need a Berenson, Lucia, or my personal favorite Jeff Jackson to lead this squad next year. we didnt hit enough.....that gave me the best laugh I had all year!

The US tied/lost to Canada and Russia because the US hit them too much. Right.

As a Canadian, I would love for you to send a career college coach like Red or Lucia - guys who have very little experience coaching against the style that Canadians use to success in the WJC.

And by all means send Jackson as well. In his time in Guelph, he showed me zero positivity on the bench or ability to rally his players and motivate them to play with emotion, which I would argue are critical factors to success at the WJC - at least they always are for Canada.

 

[AmericanDream]

What about Pat Kane, this kid is a hell of a talent and has led nearly every tournament in scoring that he has played in in the last several years. He is also the offensive catalyst of the U18 team.

I think he deserves serious consideration for next year or even the year after.

I wasnt trying to name the whole roster, I just threw out some names who I think should make the team next year. I also left a few spots open because I knew guys like Pat Kane, Jimmy O'brien, Dan Collins, and Jimmy Fraser could have monster years next year. All of these players would add skill and speed to the team that I picked, and would definitely compliment each other greatly.

I agree with you that Pat Kane is definitely a very talented player who probably will find his way onto this team.

Jimmy O'brien is the guy that I cant wait to see the most. This kid could have the hype of Phile Kessel come WJC time, and dont think for one second that he isnt in the #1 overall talk come draft time next year. This kid is dynamic and just getting started to show off his talent. I hope he makes this team next year, he would be a force to handle.

 

[AmericanDream]

The US tied/lost to Canada and Russia because the US hit them too much. Right.

As a Canadian, I would love for you to send a career college coach like Red or Lucia - guys who have very little experience coaching against the style that Canadians use to success in the WJC.

And by all means send Jackson as well. In his time in Guelph, he showed me zero positivity on the bench or ability to rally his players and motivate them to play with emotion, which I would argue are critical factors to success at the WJC - at least they always are for Canada.

well they didnt lose because of your reason. they were too physical on the ice, taking too many penalties, thats a major reason for our loss.

i'll take jackson any day of the week, he had better finishes with worse teams years back at the wjc. hand him a team like this, and gold is what you will see. in regards to lucia and berenson, just flush your head down the toliet because that was the dumbest comment i have ever read in my life. how much wjc experience did sutter have before this year????i am sure he has coached this team for what 10 years now? just flush already.

 

[Juan]

well they didnt lose because of your reason. they were too physical on the ice, taking too many penalties, thats a major reason for our loss.

i'll take jackson any day of the week, he had better finishes with worse teams years back at the wjc. hand him a team like this, and gold is what you will see. in regards to lucia and berenson, just flush your head down the toliet because that was the dumbest comment i have ever read in my life. how much wjc experience did sutter have before this year????i am sure he has coached this team for what 10 years now? just flush already.

Your trailer-trashy retort notwithstanding, I didn't suggest that Red and Lucia wouldn't succeed because they didn't have actual WJC experience. I said that they didn't have extensive experience coaching against the style of play that has always made Canada successful.

Brent Sutter had incomparable NHL playoff playing experience and WHL/Mem Cup playoff coaching experience prior to starting with the Canadian WJC. There isn't a junior or pro hockey team in North America that would hire Jeff Jackson as a head coach over him. An NCAA team or the US World Junior team, well...

In the game against Canada, the US had 2 PPG (both their goals) and Canada had 1. In the game against Russia, the US had 1 PPG (their only goal) and Russia had 1. So your statement that the US lost those games because they took too many penalties seems to be without merit.

 

[Juan]

well they didnt lose because of your reason. they were too physical on the ice, taking too many penalties, thats a major reason for our loss.

i'll take jackson any day of the week, he had better finishes with worse teams years back at the wjc. hand him a team like this, and gold is what you will see. in regards to lucia and berenson, just flush your head down the toliet because that was the dumbest comment i have ever read in my life. how much wjc experience did sutter have before this year????i am sure he has coached this team for what 10 years now? just flush already.

Your trailer-trashy retort notwithstanding, I didn't suggest that Red and Lucia wouldn't succeed because they didn't have actual WJC experience. I said that they didn't have extensive experience coaching against the style of play that has always made Canada successful.

Brent Sutter had incomparable NHL playoff playing experience and WHL/Mem Cup playoff coaching experience prior to starting with the Canadian WJC. There isn't a junior or pro hockey team in North America that would hire Jeff Jackson as a head coach over him. An NCAA team or the US World Junior team, well...

In the game against Canada, the US had 2 PPG (both their goals) and Canada had 1. In the game against Russia, the US had 1 PPG (their only goal) and Russia had 1. The US could not score an even strength goal in either game. So your statement that the US lost those games because they took too many penalties seems to be without merit.

 

[VOB]

please let me use the crackpipe you are smoking! we werent physical enough??? hahahaha we had two of the most intimidating blueliners in the Johnsons who outplayed anyone in this tourney with its physical play. did you watch any games?

No crack-pipe just good ole fashion honesty. The U.S. defense could not match Canada's physical play. They were constantly hemed in their own zone and could not establish any type of transitional play because of Canada's agressive fore-checking. Canada hit and they hit often, we for the most part did not respond in kind.
The two J.J's took some dumb penalties but not because they were too physical - just stupid!