2004 vs 2005

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Chuckalinsky

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May 1, 2004
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Talent wise, how do the potential top three picks of 04 compare to the potential top three picks in 05? I know Crosby and Ovechkin are close but what about the other high end talents?
 

pittengineer

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Jan 1, 2004
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1a. Ovechkin
1b. Crosby
2. Malkin
Then prob the 3 and 4 are prob from the 05' draft, then Olesz. Im not thrilled with Olesz even though he could become a good player. His concussion history scares me.
 

pittengineer

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Hockeycrazed07 said:
...and Malkin's doesn't?

~Crazed.

Malkin has only had one concussion, which was this past year. If I remember right, isn't this Olesz third already? Way to many before turning pro as concussions come progressive easier the more you have.
 

Crosbyfan

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Nov 27, 2003
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Chuckalinsky said:
Talent wise, how do the potential top three picks of 04 compare to the potential top three picks in 05? I know Crosby and Ovechkin are close but what about the other high end talents?

On present ability Crosby and Ovechkin followed by Malkin, Olesz, Brule and Latendresse in that order.

As prospects Crosby followed by Malkin, Ovechkin, Latendresse and Brule in that order.

Just guessing of course! :dunno:
 

tiredman

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Nov 10, 2003
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my top 6
1)Crosby
2)Ovechkin
3)Malkin
4)Latendresse
5)Brule
6)Barker
 

monster_bertuzzi

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May 26, 2003
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Top 5 04
Ovechkin
Malkin
Olesz
Barker
Tukonen

Top 5 05
Crosby
Brule
Latendresse
Anikeenko
Bertram

Crosby>Ovecchkin
Malkin=Brule
Latendresse>Olesz
Barker>Anikeenko
Tukonen>Bertram
 

Hunter Gathers

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Feb 27, 2002
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monster_bertuzzi said:
Crosby>Ovecchkin
Malkin=Brule
Latendresse>Olesz
Barker>Anikeenko
Tukonen>Bertram

I see it like this.

Crosby = Ovechkin. I don't see how Crosby is any better. At all.
Malkin > Brule.
Olesz > Latendresse.
Barker > Anikeenko.
Bertram < Tukonen
 

moosefan

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Feb 27, 2002
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BIGROCKET said:
No one has mentioned Brian Little. :shakehead

Little is 2006 ranked by the way.


here is mine


1. Sidney Crosby
2. Alexander Ovechkin
3. Gilbert Brule
4. Daniel Bertram
5. Latendresse

as for Anikeenko and Barker comparisons, I have seen both play live and Anikeenko blows Barker out of the water for almost every aspect of the game. He was the best d-man at this years U-17s and is impressive at both ends of the rink and with physical play.

I think besides Ovechkin the top 5 for 2005 are better.
 

IFK

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moosefan said:
as for Anikeenko and Barker comparisons, I have seen both play live and Anikeenko blows Barker out of the water for almost every aspect of the game. He was the best d-man at this years U-17s and is impressive at both ends of the rink and with physical play.

I think besides Ovechkin the top 5 for 2005 are better.

I think Teemu Laakso is better than those two. Teemu Laakso was best d-man U-18 championship and he was injured there. I´am sure that he goes TOP5 2005 draft.
 
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czechhockeyfan

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pittengineer said:
1a. Ovechkin
1b. Crosby
2. Malkin
Then prob the 3 and 4 are prob from the 05' draft, then Olesz. Im not thrilled with Olesz even though he could become a good player. His concussion history scares me.

What kind of history!? He had only one concussion, at WJCH. That´s all.
 

Unknownbutfamous

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Apr 11, 2004
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What about Voskyukov or something like that. i heard he might be the next pavel bure with healthy knees. maybe he is in the 2006 draft also.
 

Epsilon

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Oct 26, 2002
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Unknownbutfamous said:
What about Voskyukov or something like that. i heard he might be the next pavel bure with healthy knees. maybe he is in the 2006 draft also.

Alexander Vasyunov. He's tabbed as an early favorite for #1 in the 2006 draft and should be a top 5 selection. Other prospects getting hype for that draft are Phil Kessel (USA), Sergei Belyakov (RUS), and Jesse Jonesuu (FIN). Some of those might be spelled incorrectly.
 

FearTheFlyers

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Feb 3, 2003
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2004

Ovechkin
Malkin
Olesz
Barker
Tukonen

2005

Crosby
Brule
Bertram
Anikeenko
Ryan


Ovechkin=Crosby
Brule>Malkin
Bertram>Olesz
Barker>Anikeenko
Tukonen>Ryan

I think they're pretty even.
 

Sting

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Feb 8, 2004
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I'd rate Crosby a bit higher than Ovechkin. He just seems like a more complete player who will always put up big numbers. With the change to North American hockey, Ovechkin might not be as dominant. We'll see.
 

Crosbyfan

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Nov 27, 2003
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czechhockeyfan said:
What kind of history!? He had only one concussion, at WJCH. That´s all.

That's not the way it was reported in Canada at the time of the Phaneuf hit. They seemed to think he'd had a number.
 

Crosbyfan

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Nov 27, 2003
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Sting004 said:
I'd rate Crosby a bit higher than Ovechkin. He just seems like a more complete player who will always put up big numbers. With the change to North American hockey, Ovechkin might not be as dominant. We'll see.

Ovechkin is arguably/arguably not one of the top fifty 18 year olds of all time. Sid is arguably the best 16 year old of all time.
 

Crosbyfan

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Nov 27, 2003
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monster_bertuzzi said:
Ever heard of Wayne Gretzky? How about Mario Lemieux?

Arguably the best two players of all time but Orr was the closest to Sid at 16. You can make the argument Wayne and Mario were better at 16 as well, but if you use the names they made for themselves, or their play at 17 or 18 or later then you have no point. My point is that Wayne and Mario were clearly better than Ovechkin all compared at 18. Ovechkin may become the best player ever but unless he improves a lot in the next few months I wouldn't say he was one of the top ten 18 year olds ever. Right now he's arguably/arguably not one of the top 50.

Edit: Just to add fuel to the fire; Ovechkin was arguably/arguably not one of the top fifteen 17 year olds of all time!
 
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Vlad The Impaler

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Feb 27, 2002
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Montreal
Crosbyfan said:
Edit: Just to add fuel to the fire; Ovechkin was arguably/arguably not one of the top fifteen 17 year olds of all time!

You know, I've known a few people who were students of the game in the 50s, 60s, 70, 80s and 90s and they still had all the pain in the world comparing all the different players in all the different eras.

Of all time? Top fifteen?

What kind of top fifteen? How do you come to these conclusions? How did you collect the hockey data of all time? Is this worldwide as well? Like, all time, all places?

I've never been a fan of comparing different eras and different leagues for the reason that, despite having a pretty high confidence level, I do not feel I am up to the task nor have I have ever seen the most knowledgeable folks I have met and talked with agree on those things.

Given that posters at HF have all the trouble in the world coming up with a top 10 of, say, the best centers in the NHL right now, it will take some kickass fireworks to wow me and get me to take seriously claims that Crosby is top this as a 16 years old, Ovechkin a top that as a 17 years old and a top thingy as an 18 years old.

So yeah, I do think your claims had fuel to the fire but I also feel they are pretty much just words devoid of context. Not really demonstrable, not really refutable. Kind of like saying: God exists/God doesn't exist. What is there to say to this stuff? Not much, unless we want to enter a debate of futility.

I just don't think they can be compared very accurately, much less rated in an an ambitious all-encompassing historical context. But feel free to wow me :D
 
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