2001 Devils and Avalanche best teams ever?

[quoipourquoi]

Great post.

It's hilarious that he thinks the 80s Oilers wouldn't be able to handle the physicality or toughness of the 90s/early 2000s Wings, Avs, and Devils. Semenko, McSorley, Messier, Anderson, etc. could more than handle those teams.

It's funny, some people think the 80s Oilers were all skill. They weren't. It was the opposing team fearing laying a hand on Gretzky that also helped give him so much space beyond his unparalleled vision. The 80s Oilers were one of the toughest teams in the league. Messier was an absolute animal during his years with the Oilers.

To the OP: No those teams aren't even close to the best ever. I would take the 50s Habs, as well as the 80s Isles and Oilers without question.

Taking the Oilers without question is a little too strong for me. The Oilers aren't exactly the 70s/80s Canadiens and Islanders, finishing at the top of the league in GF and GA. They had enough firepower to where they could beat anybody. But they also had middle-of-the-pack goal prevention, so they could lose a 7-game series to any championship-caliber team with hot goaltending and timely scoring - and you're not going to get much better applicants for the job than the New Jersey Devils with the A-Line or the Colorado Avalanche with Bourque, Blake, and Foote.

The Oilers are going to have a weakness that many Cinderella teams after 1995 were built to exploit. Teams like the 1996 Panthers or 2003 Mighty Ducks might lose in 4, but they also might sneak by with their goal prevention in 7. And in a tournament of Stanley Cup champions, the 2001 Avalanche and Devils would be like Cinderella if she was given rocket launchers instead of shoes.

 

[double5son10]

Taking the Oilers without question is a little too strong for me. The Oilers aren't exactly the 70s/80s Canadiens and Islanders, finishing at the top of the league in GF and GA. They had enough firepower to where they could beat anybody. But they also had middle-of-the-pack goal prevention, so they could lose a 7-game series to any championship-caliber team with hot goaltending and timely scoring - and you're not going to get much better applicants for the job than the New Jersey Devils with the A-Line or the Colorado Avalanche with Bourque, Blake, and Foote.

The Oilers are going to have a weakness that many Cinderella teams after 1995 were built to exploit. Teams like the 1996 Panthers or 2003 Mighty Ducks might lose in 4, but they also might sneak by with their goal prevention in 7. And in a tournament of Stanley Cup champions, the 2001 Avalanche and Devils would be like Cinderella if she was given rocket launchers instead of shoes.

I don't mean to suggest those three late 90s/early 00s teams, in a seven game series, couldn't defeat the dynastic Islanders or Oilers. If the argument was that Detroit's depth down the middle was too great for New York, or the triumvirate of Bourque, Blake & Foote could out transition the Oilers, or the Devils could shut them both down fine w/ superior defense, ok. But the post pointed to goaltending, which is a wash in my view, & then physicality and systems, i.e. coaching. Sorry but those aren't areas where the Islanders and Oilers were lacking. As for the Oilers defensive acumen, which side of the 80s dynasty are we talking about? The completely run-and-gun squad from 83-85 or the teams that tightened up defensively after the Calgary upset in '86? Because the '87, '88 & '90 teams were good defensive teams. Not legendary perhaps, but w/ that offense I'd say they were more than adequate.

 

[quoipourquoi]

As for the Oilers defensive acumen, which side of the 80s dynasty are we talking about? The completely run-and-gun squad from 83-85 or the teams that tightened up defensively after the Calgary upset in '86? Because the '87, '88 & '90 teams were good defensive teams. Not legendary perhaps, but w/ that offense I'd say they were more than adequate.

They finished 43 GA, 50 GA, and 50 GA back of the league leader in those years - 8/21, 9/21, and 10/21 in the league. And that's after tightening things up (they were 88 GA and 61 GA back in 1984 and 1985). Very strong team (understatement) in spite of it, but the generation that followed saw teams that built around smothering ES production and not losing 4 out of 7 low-scoring games. The only way the turn of the millennium Dallas, Colorado, New Jersey teams could be engineered better for war against a team like the Oilers dynasty would be if they were the 1970s Canadiens. They're like the 1980s Oiler-buster Calgary built with better goaltending.

Goaltending could be a wash if Fuhr plays the series of his life. That's the nature of the position. But it's one of the rare occasions where Fuhr would be opposite someone more likely to deliver.

If I'm playing the ranking game, it's the 1984 Oilers closer to the top of the list... but individual team versus individual team isn't the best matchup for the Oilers dynasty.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

I think objectively speaking, the 1976-77 Montreal Canadiens have the best argument for being the greatest team of all time. Best team in Mario's time would probably be the 1987-88 Edmonton Oilers or the 2001-02 Detroit Red Wings, but Mario didn't play against any of those teams, so you can't really count them within the context of what he said.

Devils dominated that series, they were proven Cup winners, they got further in the playoffs than any team Mario ever faced in the playoffs, & they sent us into a tailspin that we wouldn't recover from for another 5 seasons, so I agree with Mario when he says they were the greatest team he ever went up against.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

^of course I'll admit bias, I always agree with everything Mario says.

 

[MrLouniverse]

Necroing this thread (because I stumbled upon it search for a roster number for a NOBR jersey from 2001) since I'd like to go full homer and point out that the 2001 Devils were +100 in GF/GA in the regular season, the next best differential in the league were the Avs at +78 (and they got to play in a division with the truly awful Wild whom accounted for +13 of that.) New Jersey scored the most goals in the league by a margin of 25, and were 4th in GA, allowing only 8 more than prime Dominik Hasek.
Criminally underrated team.
Also, not one person has mentioned Alexander Mogilny (who revived his game and had one of the best years of his storied career) Scott Gomez, Bobby Holik, John Madden...
That was a good f***ing team.

 

[Brodeur]

Something I always point out with the 2000-01 Devils is that they led the league in scoring with 295 goals which is even more impressive given that Jason Arnott and Scott Niedermayer both held out for the first ~20 games of the season. But I'll always argue that the team which won the Cup in June 2000 was better than the team that came up short in June 2001. It was essentially the same team except for Vladimir Malakhov/Claude Lemieux being swapped for Sean O'Donnell/Turner Stevenson/Bob Corkum.

Malakhov was an enigma but he played very well (perhaps not coincidentally with his next contract upcoming) in the 2000 Cup run. O'Donnell was just a bad fit next to Colin White in 2001 to the point where O'Donnell was a healthy scratch in games 5/6 of the Final. Claude was past his prime, but had some gas left in 2000.

But as I mentioned in my original reply, Lemieux's original comment was probably misinterpreted by the OP plus he was being interviewed as that series was ongoing. It'd be a little bit different if you asked Lemieux today and he gave that response.

 

[MadLuke]

I doubt the answer would be different, looking at the list does seem like they are clearly the best team he ever faced in the playoff.

The team had a dead puck era 40+ goal scorer not on the first line.

Gomez, Holik on the second/third line, those Madden, Pandolfo, McKay high caliber type were deep dept on that team, Stevens/Rafalski/Nidermayer/White/Daneyko, Brodeur in net.....

92 Rangers were great, +75 goal for vs against team, 105 points, but that a small but clear step below the 111 points +100 goal for vs against team.

91-92 Rangers
League ranking with 50W, 105 pts: #1
Goal For: #3
Goal against: #4
Power play: #6
PK: #1
Save percentage: #2
Shot for / Shot again: 1.035
Goal for / goal again: 1.305

Really impressive

But
2000-2001 Devils
League ranking with 48W 111 pts: #2
Goal For: #1
Goal against: #6
Power play: #1
PK: #12
Save percentage: #3
Shot for / Shot again: 1.279
Goal for / goal again: 1.513

Do seem like they dominated more or at least not much of an argument against them, Devils with a similar core won the Cups the year just before and in 2003, again small difference but clearly better than the Rangers success surrounding 1992.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Fair enough, but they didn't even make it out of the 2nd round that year. I think the 1992 Rangers are a downgrade for sure from the 2001 Devils.

Not sure "didn't even make it out of the 2nd round" is telling the whole story. They ran into the Pens. That's not a huge indictment of their team. Had their played in round 1 or round 3, the result would have been the same, and that Rangers team was good enough to beat just about any other team in the conference that year.

 

[Avelanche]

'50s Habs
'70s Habs
'80s Isles
'80s Oilers

Those are the best teams of all-time.

pretty sure last years caps team crushes the 50s habs. did they even cycle in the 50s.

 

[Spirit of McMullen]

There are those of us that think the 2001 Devils are the best team in franchise history. Better than 1995, 2000 or 2003 who ended up winning each time. I don't necessarily disagree with that. The 2001 Devils had a "feel" about them. I mean, they lost in 2001, but there is still a bit of reverence for them being such a well rounded team. The "A" line was in top form, Stevens, Niedermayer, Rafalski and Daneyko were all on defense. That Brodeur guy was in net. They had more points in the regular season than any other time in their history and they were 2nd in points in 2001 behind Colorado which was a team possessed to win.

In a way they remind me of the 1976 Flyers. Not style-wise, but in the way that they were the defending champs, probably looking as good as they ever did and had a team at least as good as the previous Cup winners but they played a team in the final that was better than any other one they faced.

As for the Lemieux comments, I can see that. Heck, I might even agree with him. The 2001 Devils really shut him down and Lemieux wouldn't have the biggest pool of great teams to choose from that he played against:

1989 - Rangers, Flyers
1991 - Devils, Capitals, Bruins, Northstars
1992 - Capitals, Rangers, Bruins, Hawks
1993 - Devils, Islanders
1994 - Capitals
1996 - Capitals, Rangers, Panthers
1997 - Flyers
2001 - Capitals, Sabres, Devils

That's it. Look at that list. What teams are considered "near great" teams on that list? 1991 Bruins, 1997 Flyers and 2001 Devils. That's all I see. Maybe 1992 Hawks but they had only 87 points that year. If the 2001 Devils aren't the best playoff team Mario faced then who is?

Brodeur has one of his worst ever playoff performances in that Finals series.

Devils go up 3-2 in the series winning Game 5 in Denver and supposedly on the flight back the team was so confident they would win Game 6 at home and secure back-to-back Cups, there were big arguments over ticket allotments for families, friends, etc.

Scott Gomez scores what looks like to be the first goal of that Game 6, in what could have very well been the Cup clinching goal in the middle of the 1st, but it was called off after review, when it was decided that it was kicked in. Then Adam Foote scores a horrible goal that Brodeur shoud have saved, near the end of the 1st. That's the game winner as Colorado shuts them out 4-0 and returns home for what could have been an epic Game 7. It wasn't.

P.S. Even though Roy was nearly flawless, it was notable that in Game 4, he got caught behind the goal and coughed up the puck to Scott Gomez in a weird play that resulted in a goal. But then again, he had a lot of those, ie: Statue of Liberty goal, etc.

 

[Devils Dominion]

It was a pretty good series between two great teams, but ended up bad.

 

[FerrisRox]

are these the best teams ever?

lemieux said the devils were the best team he ever faced in the playoffs, then the avs beat them without forsberg

does this make them the best teams ever

this article has the quote

vindy.com | NHL PLAYOFFS Somber Mellon Arena may not see Game 6

God no.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

God no.

line up those devils against the 50's canadiens, you're really betting on the canadiens?

 

[Killion]

line up those devils against the 50's canadiens, you're really betting on the canadiens?

.... uggh. and therein lies the problem in cross-era comparisons as all things simply put are not equal and theres absolutely no way to level the playing surface without some serious speculation, mental gymnastics. Games changed so much. so "best team ever"?... how long is a piece of string?

 

[MadLuke]

line up those devils against the 50's canadiens, you're really betting on the canadiens?

By that metric would the 2018 Panthers be a better team than the 50s Canadiens ?

 

[Big Phil]

line up those devils against the 50's canadiens, you're really betting on the canadiens?

Yes, without even needing to think hard over it. Let's try to picture that the 1950s Habs have modern equipment, their sticks aren't 100lbs. and they are wearing helmets. These are all obvious things to think about in a comparison and are usually just a given on the HOH board.

Not sure "didn't even make it out of the 2nd round" is telling the whole story. They ran into the Pens. That's not a huge indictment of their team. Had their played in round 1 or round 3, the result would have been the same, and that Rangers team was good enough to beat just about any other team in the conference that year.

Yes they did run into the Pens. But can the 1992 Rangers take the 2001 Avs to 7 games? I will say no.

Brodeur has one of his worst ever playoff performances in that Finals series.

Devils go up 3-2 in the series winning Game 5 in Denver and supposedly on the flight back the team was so confident they would win Game 6 at home and secure back-to-back Cups, there were big arguments over ticket allotments for families, friends, etc.

Scott Gomez scores what looks like to be the first goal of that Game 6, in what could have very well been the Cup clinching goal in the middle of the 1st, but it was called off after review, when it was decided that it was kicked in. Then Adam Foote scores a horrible goal that Brodeur shoud have saved, near the end of the 1st. That's the game winner as Colorado shuts them out 4-0 and returns home for what could have been an epic Game 7. It wasn't.

P.S. Even though Roy was nearly flawless, it was notable that in Game 4, he got caught behind the goal and coughed up the puck to Scott Gomez in a weird play that resulted in a goal. But then again, he had a lot of those, ie: Statue of Liberty goal, etc.

Brodeur gets a lot of flack for the 2001 final, but for a guy who won everything there needs to be won in hockey I think we can give him a break here. This was the first final he ever lost and it was against the 2001 Avs. This was the best team he ever faced in the final of all the 5 times he took the Devils to the final. It isn't as if the 2001 Devils are the only team who played at home in Game 6 or Game 7 with the opportunity to win the Cup but didn't.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Yes they did run into the Pens. But can the 1992 Rangers take the 2001 Avs to 7 games? I will say no.

Totally agreed. I was just being a bit pedantic with your reasoning.

 

[Killion]

@Big Phil ... Ha! Not a chance in Hell. One of the weakest Cup wins (92) in my lifetime.

 

[Lateralous]

Brodeur has one of his worst ever playoff performances in that Finals series.

Devils go up 3-2 in the series winning Game 5 in Denver and supposedly on the flight back the team was so confident they would win Game 6 at home and secure back-to-back Cups, there were big arguments over ticket allotments for families, friends, etc.

Scott Gomez scores what looks like to be the first goal of that Game 6, in what could have very well been the Cup clinching goal in the middle of the 1st, but it was called off after review, when it was decided that it was kicked in. Then Adam Foote scores a horrible goal that Brodeur shoud have saved, near the end of the 1st. That's the game winner as Colorado shuts them out 4-0 and returns home for what could have been an epic Game 7. It wasn't.

P.S. Even though Roy was nearly flawless, it was notable that in Game 4, he got caught behind the goal and coughed up the puck to Scott Gomez in a weird play that resulted in a goal. But then again, he had a lot of those, ie: Statue of Liberty goal, etc.

Game 6 was the most painful game I ever attended. I personally thought that after the easy series against the Pens, it took until Game 5 against the Avs for the Devils to really find their game. Guys who had long scoring droughts like Mogilny snapped their streaks and I remember being just as confident coming home for game 6. Unfortunately Brodeur just did not show up for that one.

 

[Big Phil]

@Big Phil ... Ha! Not a chance in Hell. One of the weakest Cup wins (92) in my lifetime.

The 1992 Pens you mean? They won a still record of 11 playoff games in a row.

 

[Killion]

The 1992 Pens you mean? They won a still record of 11 playoff games in a row.

Ooops. No. 94 Rangers.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

By that metric would the 2018 Panthers be a better team than the 50s Canadiens ?

if we compare game film, which teams looks more skilled and talented to you?

 

[The Kingslayer]

It was a pretty good series between two great teams, but ended up bad.

I liked the ending

 

[FerrisRox]

line up those devils against the 50's canadiens, you're really betting on the canadiens?

Absolutely.