Prospect Info: #20 Dennis Cholowski, D-Chilliwack, BCHL

[Mijatovic]

All it confirms is that Red Wings scouts saw something other scouts didnt or havent yet.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

All it confirms is that Red Wings scouts saw something other scouts didnt or havent yet.

Or maybe there's nothing there. That's also a possibility

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Wonder why Cholowski didn't get called to the Summer Showcase event for Canada. Maybe just school stuff? Hard to ignore who's on the top pairing there, though... even ahead of guys a few years older.

That is the worst Team Canada has looked in one of these summer showcases in a while. So wouldn't be bragging about making that crew. The USA **** stomped them today.

With a good start to the season and how poor that group played this summer, jobs should be there to be won on that team.

 

[Frk It]

All it confirms is that Red Wings scouts saw something other scouts didnt or havent yet.

Doesn't help that he was a big time late bloomer.

 

[Claypool]

Dante Fabbro, the guy we should have drafted.

Are you a professional scout by any chance?

 

[Bench]

Are you a professional scout by any chance?

Lame argument.

Professional scouts for Arizona, Nashville, and Winnipeg all valued other defenders over the Wing's pick. Or that doesn't count?

Trusting Nashville's defensive scouting isn't a terrible idea.

 

[Winger98]

Lame argument.

Professional scouts for Arizona, Nashville, and Winnipeg all valued other defenders over the Wing's pick. Or that doesn't count?

Trusting Nashville's defensive scouting isn't a terrible idea.

Yeah, never like seeing Nashville grab a D that we passed on, but it also seems like people are reaching for reasons to bag on Cholo. We've seen guys make national teams only to never sniff the NHL.Other than being a late riser at the draft, I'm not sure what there is about Cholo to concern us as a prospect any more than the various short comings most prospects around the draft position have right now.

 

[Claypool]

Lame argument.

Professional scouts for Arizona, Nashville, and Winnipeg all valued other defenders over the Wing's pick. Or that doesn't count?

Trusting Nashville's defensive scouting isn't a terrible idea.

He's complaining about a draft pick two months after he was taken. Nashville has plenty of misses on defenseman, too. Or did you already forget about Ryan Parent and Jonathan Blum? They aren't gods.

 

[Frk It]

The kid is a project.

Right now he's not on the level of those kids selected to Team Canada on the back end. The hope is as he fills out, possibly grows more, and rounds out his game that he passes them.

We will see. Not even sure he will have a huge role as a freshman either. Hope people aren't expecting another Larkin-like development, this kid is going to need some time. He looks like he's 15.

 

[Wood Stick]

I personally like the pick. Detroit's North American scouting has been pretty good over the past 3-4 years. The first round picks have been good (Mantha/Larkin/Svech). Second rounders haven't been too bad with the likes of Bert Jr.

I trust the scouting. Development camp I heard he looked really good. Great first pass, mobile, etc. He could make a run at Team Canada though I think they go with CHL guys and that D greatly struggles at the WJC. With Team Canada you generally know when they're gonna do well or not. I think again, this team struggles.

 

[L13]

Both Fabbro and Chychrun failed to make a good impression at this showcase, so using their presence there as proof Detroit shouldn't have picked Cholowski doesn't make sense. Canada's defence has been terrible at this event and if HC have any sense they'll give players like Cholowski and Lauzon a chance to make the team in the fall because they need more options badly.

I think it would have been hard for Cholowski to look poorer than Fabbro here, for what it's worth.

 

[njx9]

Are you a professional scout by any chance?

Love the appeal to authority, as if the Wings scouts are suddenly, somehow infallible. Are you a coach? Better not ever say a word about the team's usage or lines. Are you a GM? You clearly don't know anything about drafting or free agency, so keep your mouth shut. If you tried, I'm sure you could come up with a useful argument that doesn't solely center around waving someone else's credentials around.

He's complaining about a draft pick two months after he was taken. Nashville has plenty of misses on defenseman, too. Or did you already forget about Ryan Parent and Jonathan Blum? They aren't gods.

So our scouts are perfect, and no one can possibly disagree with them, but Nashville's "aren't gods"? Will you please figure out which authorities I'm not allowed to disagree with and which ones I shouldn't take seriously? I'd like a list.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Love the appeal to authority, as if the Wings scouts are suddenly, somehow infallible. Are you a coach? Better not ever say a word about the team's usage or lines. Are you a GM? You clearly don't know anything about drafting or free agency, so keep your mouth shut. If you tried, I'm sure you could come up with a useful argument that doesn't solely center around waving someone else's credentials around.



So our scouts are perfect, and no one can possibly disagree with them, but Nashville's "aren't gods"? Will you please figure out which authorities I'm not allowed to disagree with and which ones I shouldn't take seriously? I'd like a list.

I understand that it is a weak argument... but it's not a very strong argument that we SHOULD have taken Fabbro that is being used either.

The main point is "Nashville took him, so he must be a good defenseman and we will regret missing him."

And it's less that the Wings scouts are infallible and nobody should disagree with them and more that they're not blubbering nincompoops who make picks by throwing crap at the wall of names.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

The kid is a project.

Right now he's not on the level of those kids selected to Team Canada on the back end. The hope is as he fills out, possibly grows more, and rounds out his game that he passes them.

We will see. Not even sure he will have a huge role as a freshman either. Hope people aren't expecting another Larkin-like development, this kid is going to need some time. He looks like he's 15.

This is the correct answer. Team Canada also doesn't go out of its way to put NCAA kids on its WJC roster. Fabbro has played a lot internationally for Canada and was great at the U18s.

People need to pump the breaks on Cholo. I think he has the makings of a very good prospect and pro player but he will require a good bit of time to get where he needs to get to.

 

[njx9]

I understand that it is a weak argument... but it's not a very strong argument that we SHOULD have taken Fabbro that is being used either.

The main point is "Nashville took him, so he must be a good defenseman and we will regret missing him."

Sure, but the original post that got the "I didn't know you were a professional scout treatment" was a simple statement that the poster thought we should've taken Fabbro. I also don't think I've seen anyone say that because Nashville took him, it was the right pick, just that by correlation (they do much better with drafted D than we apparently do), it gives some folks pause.

And it's less that the Wings scouts are infallible and nobody should disagree with them and more that they're not blubbering nincompoops who make picks by throwing crap at the wall of names.

It's still a weak argument. Is Fabbro someone fans latched onto by throwing crap at a wall? Or was he a defenseman than many folks on this very board wanted at our original pick? What about Chychrun? "Well, the Detroit guys didn't want him and they're smarter than you" is an even weaker argument, given our nearly complete and utter inability to identify good D prospects over the last 10-20 years.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Sure, but the original post that got the "I didn't know you were a professional scout treatment" was a simple statement that the poster thought we should've taken Fabbro. I also don't think I've seen anyone say that because Nashville took him, it was the right pick, just that by correlation (they do much better with drafted D than we apparently do), it gives some folks pause.



It's still a weak argument. Is Fabbro someone fans latched onto by throwing crap at a wall? Or was he a defenseman than many folks on this very board wanted at our original pick? What about Chychrun? "Well, the Detroit guys didn't want him and they're smarter than you" is an even weaker argument, given our nearly complete and utter inability to identify good D prospects over the last 10-20 years.

Yeah. That's why I'm not making that argument. Hell, it's hardly an argument at all.

The Wings staff like Cholowski. People here liked Fabbro or Chychrun. Doesn't make either side right or wrong. They're all mystery boxes of a sort because you can't know what they'll do at the NHL level.

Hell, I was pissed when they could have taken Chychrun and didn't. I'm not saying "They didn't take him so they're smart" I'm more of a mind that they must have seen something that they liked more in Cholowski + what they could do with the money from Datsyuk than either Chychrun and Fabbro. Not a slam on Fabbro or Chychrun, not saying it's the right or wrong move, just that there is a thought process behind what they do.

Whether it succeeds or fails, they're not just blindly doing this.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Yeah. That's why I'm not making that argument. Hell, it's hardly an argument at all.

The Wings staff like Cholowski. People here liked Fabbro or Chychrun. Doesn't make either side right or wrong. They're all mystery boxes of a sort because you can't know what they'll do at the NHL level.

Hell, I was pissed when they could have taken Chychrun and didn't. I'm not saying "They didn't take him so they're smart" I'm more of a mind that they must have seen something that they liked more in Cholowski + what they could do with the money from Datsyuk than either Chychrun and Fabbro. Not a slam on Fabbro or Chychrun, not saying it's the right or wrong move, just that there is a thought process behind what they do.

Whether it succeeds or fails, they're not just blindly doing this.

I think for me the Cholowski pick was representative of more of "This is a kid we think cam become exactly what we need in X years and we think we can get him at pick Y.". I would say that there are other guys around that same pick that have been mentioned that are more mature and ready to contribute at this point but my retort to that was that both Kindl and Smith were physically ideal but lacked the fundamental personality and disposition to excel at the position. At least the most encouraging thing I've read thus far on Cholowski is that he "slows the game down". He seems to have a mind for the position to remain poised and allow the game to come to him and I would say that's the quality, despite Smith and Kindls talent and gifts that eluded them and proved to be their eventual downfall.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I think for me the Cholowski pick was representative of more of "This is a kid we think cam become exactly what we need in X years and we think we can get him at pick Y.". I would say that there are other guys around that same pick that have been mentioned that are more mature and ready to contribute at this point but my retort to that was that both Kindl and Smith were physically ideal but lacked the fundamental personality and disposition to excel at the position. At least the most encouraging thing I've read thus far on Cholowski is that he "slows the game down". He seems to have a mind for the position to remain poised and allow the game to come to him and I would say that's the quality, despite Smith and Kindls talent and gifts that eluded them and proved to be their eventual downfall.

That being said, if presented the opportunity to have landed Julovui they would've jumped at the chance but given the available candidates that Cholowski seemed to possess the mental quality we've lacked for years now.

 

[pierre gagnon*]

Dante Fabbro, the guy we should have drafted.

yeah he was average at best, did nothing of value in all the games I watched for Canada. Zero pts on the powerplay as the quarterback. Cholowski will be a better pro, stop worrying. I would rather have a kid that could end up at 6'3" like his brother. The 2 best defenders in the tourny were not any of the names you mentioned they were in my view McAvoy and Larsson.

 

[Frk It]

yeah he was average at best, did nothing of value in all the games I watched for Canada. Zero pts on the powerplay as the quarterback. Cholowski will be a better pro, stop worrying. I would rather have a kid that is not filthy rich but one that could end up at 6'3" like his brother.

Well, he was very good at the WJC's. Either one could end up a better pro, but Fabbro is easily the better player right now. 8 pts in 7 games and many thought he outshined Chychrun. But Fabbro also has 20-30 lbs on the kid.

 

[Frk It]

That being said, if presented the opportunity to have landed Julovui they would've jumped at the chance but given the available candidates that Cholowski seemed to possess the mental quality we've lacked for years now.

Meh, I like Chychrun more than Juolevi actually. If I was moving up it would have been for Sergachev.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Meh, I like Chychrun more than Juolevi actually. If I was moving up it would have been for Sergachev.

I meant it more as to.illustrate the point that Cholowski isn't the best defender in the draft but met the need for the Wings which I believe stressed defensive awareness and composure over "NHL Ready Body" or "physical gifts" like in the past with Smith and Kindl. A slight philosophical shift in their approach.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Meh, I like Chychrun more than Juolevi actually. If I was moving up it would have been for Sergachev.

The only other thing I can think of about Chychrun is the fact that a ton of GMs passed on him prior to the Coyotes so I can only assume there was something about him that they all balked at. The guy who did chase him was the young kid out of PHX who was looking into make a splashy move and didn't have the experience of the GMs in front of him. But that could be me just reaching for some kind of justification and rationalizing the fact we passed on him

 

[njx9]

Yeah. That's why I'm not making that argument. Hell, it's hardly an argument at all.

The Wings staff like Cholowski. People here liked Fabbro or Chychrun. Doesn't make either side right or wrong. They're all mystery boxes of a sort because you can't know what they'll do at the NHL level.

Hell, I was pissed when they could have taken Chychrun and didn't. I'm not saying "They didn't take him so they're smart" I'm more of a mind that they must have seen something that they liked more in Cholowski + what they could do with the money from Datsyuk than either Chychrun and Fabbro. Not a slam on Fabbro or Chychrun, not saying it's the right or wrong move, just that there is a thought process behind what they do.

Whether it succeeds or fails, they're not just blindly doing this.

Sure, and I'm not trying to argue against our ultimate pick. But I hate when prospect arguments devolve into what amounts to "well the scouts disagree, so you're dumb" (as in the original post I replied to, not that I'm suggesting you said or implied that). I hope our guys were right, and saw something no one else apparently did. It would be far from the first time that a great D dropped past a lot of GMs.

Given the way the Datsyuk contract move went, and the moves after, I'm still not entirely sure the team really did have a plan, but that's probably more pessimism than reality.

 

[Bench]

He's complaining about a draft pick two months after he was taken. Nashville has plenty of misses on defenseman, too. Or did you already forget about Ryan Parent and Jonathan Blum? They aren't gods.

That's fine. I have no idea who will end up the better defender 5 years from now.

But to use the "are you a scout" line is flawed, due to very accomplished scouts agreeing that Cholowski wasn't the first choice for them.