20-21 Season Tank Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

[infinitemile]

noone is getting traded off this team while Benning is in charge, bar none. He won't do it, because we won't be truly mathematically eliminated until a month+ from now. This is why there truly is pressure to fire the GM mid-season, which is abnormal, because any decision Jim+John will make at the deadline this season will so clearly be made in self-preservation. Every day Aqua allows Jim+John to survive is another punch in the gut for this fanbase, this team, and most importantly our star players.

How long until there's serious rumours that Quinn and Elias are fundamentally disenfranchised with this team? Because once those come, there's no turning back, and Aqua seems content with allowing that risk

 

[dbaz]

How is this team going to be..."good" next season?

How?

well i clarified prospect wise, cap wise, and talent wise as being in good position next year. overall on-ice product would be the year after, be ready for more of this next year if its the same division and miller keeps having tantrums

prospect wise: they have some high-end talent still in rathbone, podz, 1st rounder, dipietro. more importantly they have supporting cast that looks to be able to jump to bottom 6 roles in gadjovich, lockwood, lind. + woo after another year

talent wise: hughes, pettersson, hoglander, demko should all take another jump.

cap: not all good because roussel, beagle, eriksson are around for a last year but 30mil if virtanen is bought out. even if hughes and pettersson get 18 between them, theres still roughly 5-6mil to sign a rd(or better yet sign someone to a 1yr deal), knowing that podz, and other younger talent like rathbone will be up too

look im not saying benning should be the gm for the next 10 year til this core is dead, nor am i saying hes done anything fabulous. im just saying if you look forward to the next two years they are promising for what the canucks can do. with whats coming

 

[valkynax]

well i clarified prospect wise, cap wise, and talent wise as being in good position next year. overall on-ice product would be the year after, be ready for more of this next year if its the same division and miller keeps having tantrums

prospect wise: they have some high-end talent still in rathbone, podz, 1st rounder, dipietro. more importantly they have supporting cast that looks to be able to jump to bottom 6 roles in gadjovich, lockwood, lind. + woo after another year

talent wise: hughes, pettersson, hoglander, demko should all take another jump.

cap: not all good because roussel, beagle, eriksson are around for a last year but 30mil if virtanen is bought out. even if hughes and pettersson get 18 between them, theres still roughly 5-6mil to sign a rd(or better yet sign someone to a 1yr deal), knowing that podz, and other younger talent like rathbone will be up too

look im not saying benning should be the gm for the next 10 year til this core is dead, nor am i saying hes done anything fabulous. im just saying if you look forward to the next two years they are promising for what the canucks can do. with whats coming

Pete Horvat Boeser Hog and Hughes have a proven track record, Demko looks...OK for now. Outside of these, everything else you brought up are based on best case scenarios.

Our bottom 6 is a complete shit show, our defense is a complete shit show, our coach is a complete shit show.

If absolutely nothing goes wrong, sure. But if we're gonna bet on that, the odds won't look too good.

 

[dbaz]

Our bottom 6 is a complete shit show, our defense is a complete shit show, our coach is a complete shit show.

If absolutely nothing goes wrong, sure. But if we're gonna bet on that, the odds won't look too good.

true. our right d is a mess this year. to the point they should of experimented an edler-hughes pairing. coaching, green is probably gone if Benning can get someone else in the offseason, but i would think the better coaches are taken by then, but Aqualini wont pay now.
a major part of the bottom 6 problem is they have 5 wingers and 1 c. and that c is too slow to do anything anymore. along with roussell being an idiot
i think the expansion and our ability to protect another d will help solve that problem tho. teams like Anaheim, Calgary, Carolina, Colorado, Edmonton, Minnesota, Montreal, Nashville, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, and Washington all have extra d, that would improve us that they would trade for cheap

 

[zcaptain]

You know guys, this trashing Bennings.....is like, who cares?
It's over. it's done. Let's move on!

Benning left us with a decent young core, regardless, and I am so tired of bringing up the things we know he did wrong.

Let's just get past that..........and hope to hell he moves some pieces, and gets some picks......

That is where I want to see this tank forum go. Let's talk about a realistic plan....PLZ!

Now, let's agree in one thing.....Pettersson gets a Barzal bridge contract or close....which way, up or down 1/2 million?

What does, Hughes get? ...........I am thinking 6.5 M on the same bridge deal......?

Will he get more or less?

To me, these are things that are important, in that they dictate what UFA's we can buy, or what UFA's we can sell

This is to me what will help our tank, although it does not mean much help

I mean, go ahead..........but it gets really repetitive, and I would like to stick around to hear some of the idea's

Sorry guys!

 

[valkynax]

true. our right d is a mess this year. to the point they should of experimented an edler-hughes pairing. coaching, green is probably gone if Benning can get someone else in the offseason, but i would think the better coaches are taken by then, but Aqualini wont pay now.
i think the expansion and our ability to protect another d will help solve that problem tho. teams like Anaheim, Calgary, Carolina, Colorado, Edmonton, Minnesota, Montreal, Nashville, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, and Washington all have extra d, that would improve us that they would trade for cheap

Trade for cheap, again, you're betting on the best case scenario.

Look at Benning's trade history, how much confidence do you have in him to not f*** it up? There is a good reason that this board led out a collective, unanimous groan of fear coupled with teeth-clenching across the room when JV trade rumor was up there.

Do we know if any of those listed non-NHL prospects will step it up? Do we know that Benning won't get trigger happy on UFAs and sign more crippling contracts?

 

[dbaz]

if you fail to properly investigate what the ownership/gm was trying to do you can quickly come to that conclusion re trades. if you look at how its been since aquilini finally conceded to a rebuild then its not as bad as many think. not saying its great but yea. schmidt trade shows hed apparently capable of finding deals, next season with expansion and extended covid pain there will be more deals around.
people clenchin their teeth about getting rid of a player unable to grasp anything with a 3mil cap hit next year for a pending ufa? ok..
all i was trying to point out was there is room for optimism with how the next 2 years are looking. many of you may hate it due to who it is, or by how its come around but this group of young players that has been put together (credit to gillis for horvat) has the potential to be our best group.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

You know guys, this trashing Bennings.....is like, who cares?
It's over. it's done. Let's move on!

Benning left us with a decent young core, regardless, and I am so tired of bringing up the things we know he did wrong.

Let's just get past that..........and hope to hell he moves some pieces, and gets some picks......

That is where I want to see this tank forum go. Let's talk about a realistic plan....PLZ!

Now, let's agree in one thing.....Pettersson gets a Barzal bridge contract or close....which way, up or down 1/2 million?

What does, Hughes get? ...........I am thinking 6.5 M on the same bridge deal......?

Will he get more or less?

To me, these are things that are important, in that they dictate what UFA's we can buy, or what UFA's we can sell

This is to me what will help our tank, although it does not mean much help

I mean, go ahead..........but it gets really repetitive, and I would like to stick around to hear some of the idea's

Sorry guys!

If Benning had actually left us with a decent young core you might be right, but he's still here.

 

[valkynax]

if you fail to properly investigate what the ownership/gm was trying to do you can quickly come to that conclusion re trades. if you look at how its been since aquilini finally conceded to a rebuild then its not as bad as many think. not saying its great but yea. schmidt trade shows hed apparently capable of finding deals, next season with expansion and extended covid pain there will be more deals around.
people clenchin their teeth about getting rid of a player unable to grasp anything with a 3mil cap hit next year for a pending ufa? ok..
all i was trying to point out was there is room for optimism with how the next 2 years are looking. many of you may hate it due to who it is, or by how its come around but this group of young players that has been put together (credit to gillis for horvat) has the potential to be our best group.

People clenching their teeth because we are trading low on a player, and it's being handled by Benning. For every good trade you list, there are about ten other horrific ones by that man.

Also, you think people hate Benning because he's Benning? People practically bows for him when he does not do stupid shit, were you not aware of how people love Pete and Hughes after their shows on NHL ice? Or how everyone said the Schmidt trade was so awesome?

No, people are ultimately driven by results. If this was Yzerman's mess, people will want his head. This has NOTHING to do with who our GM is, and has everything to do with the mess he caused.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

if you fail to properly investigate what the ownership/gm was trying to do you can quickly come to that conclusion re trades. if you look at how its been since aquilini finally conceded to a rebuild then its not as bad as many think. not saying its great but yea. schmidt trade shows hed apparently capable of finding deals, next season with expansion and extended covid pain there will be more deals around.
people clenchin their teeth about getting rid of a player unable to grasp anything with a 3mil cap hit next year for a pending ufa? ok..
all i was trying to point out was there is room for optimism with how the next 2 years are looking. many of you may hate it due to who it is, or by how its come around but this group of young players that has been put together (credit to gillis for horvat) has the potential to be our best group.

Any idiot can put together a good group of young talent with potential. Any idiot can ice a team so crap they continually get high draft picks.

It takes a professional to mold that talent, bring out the best in the group and bring in the proper complementary players, and organize the payroll well enough to make the team prosper. If you can't do that stuff, it doesn't matter how good your young talent is, it doesn't matter how many draft picks you get, and it doesn't matter when bad contracts expire.

 

[mouz135]

You know guys, this trashing Bennings.....is like, who cares?
It's over. it's done. Let's move on!

Benning left us with a decent young core, regardless, and I am so tired of bringing up the things we know he did wrong.

Let's just get past that..........and hope to hell he moves some pieces, and gets some picks......

That is where I want to see this tank forum go. Let's talk about a realistic plan....PLZ!

Now, let's agree in one thing.....Pettersson gets a Barzal bridge contract or close....which way, up or down 1/2 million?

What does, Hughes get? ...........I am thinking 6.5 M on the same bridge deal......?

Will he get more or less?

To me, these are things that are important, in that they dictate what UFA's we can buy, or what UFA's we can sell

This is to me what will help our tank, although it does not mean much help

I mean, go ahead..........but it gets really repetitive, and I would like to stick around to hear some of the idea's

Sorry guys!

A wild Benning supporter appears! It’s magical

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

By Harman Dayal and Thomas Drance Feb 26, 2021

Longest odds

Every day you’ll notice that our colleague Dom Luszczyszyn updates his Stanley Cup playoff odds at TheAthletic.com/nhl.
After Thursday night, the team’s playoff odds dropped to 2.4 percent.
So are we saying there’s a chance? Not really!
In fact, we asked Dom to check, and in the history of his model (which has been around since 2016-17), there’s never been a team that’s come back from below 4 percent playoff odds. Even the pie-in-the-sky 2019 St. Louis Blues never fell below 10 percent on their way to the Stanley Cup. If you’re reading this, you’re a fan, so go ahead and root for this team however you like. You want to do the “Don’t stop believing” thing, you do you.
Organizationally, however, the sooner the Canucks reckon with the fact that it’s over and move to minimize the damage — by plotting for the future but also changing the mix and doing whatever it takes to keep their young core players from questioning their desire to spend their careers in this market — the better.

The Armies: Long odds, showcase Jake Virtanen and the toxic incentives

FA be like: "So you are saying we have a chance? Bengie, buy at the deadline."

 

[SamInVan]

Demko looks...OK for now.

Demko is likely the better option at this point. We should ride him until season's end IMO.

He had solid efforts against Winnipeg (2-0L) and Edmonton (3-0L)...both were games we had no reason to lose other than the obvious of not being able to score a goal.

 

[I am toxic]

Pete Horvat Boeser Hog and Hughes have a proven track record, Demko looks...OK for now. Outside of these, everything else you brought up are based on best case scenarios.

Our bottom 6 is a complete shit show, our defense is a complete shit show, our coach is a complete shit show.

If absolutely nothing goes wrong, sure. But if we're gonna bet on that, the odds won't look too good.

Where is Edler being replaced in these scenarios? Are we factoring in Myers and Scmidt are past their prime years and beginning to age out? It appears to be more than best case scenario, it looks like wishful thinking. The same kind of thinking that got us here over the last 7 years.

 

[4Twenty]

Where is Edler being replaced in these scenarios? Are we factoring in Myers and Scmidt are past their prime years and beginning to age out? It appears to be more than best case scenario, it looks like wishful thinking. The same kind of thinking that got us here over the last 7 years.

Edler’s replacement is Rathbone obviously. How many times have we seen Hughes, Juolevi, Rathbone listed like they’re all special recently? A lot I’d say.

Hughes-Schmidt
Juolevi-Myers
Rathbone-*****

People expect that next year and they expect it to not be horrible.

I don’t see it.

 

[Fatass]

Demko is likely the better option at this point. We should ride him until season's end IMO.

He had solid efforts against Winnipeg (2-0L) and Edmonton (3-0L)...both were games we had no reason to lose other than the obvious of not being able to score a goal.

If the goal is to get the highest pick possible shouldn’t we go with Holtby more?

 

[Fatass]

Edler’s replacement is Rathbone obviously. How many times have we seen Hughes, Juolevi, Rathbone listed like they’re all special recently? A lot I’d say.

Hughes-Schmidt
Juolevi-Myers
Rathbone-*****

People expect that next year and they expect it to not be horrible.

I don’t see it.

Maybe that’s why we signed Holtby for two years; it’s a two year tank?

 

[xtra]

I don’t think that’s true at all. A lot of NHL caliber 2nd to 4th liners signed one year deals for between $700k and $1.75m.

I think a new manager with a better eye for talent and understanding leverage could fill out the team much better than depending on unready minor leaguers.

This is clearly wrong:

In between the parameters of your 700k-1.75 mil there’s possibly on simmonds that’s a second liner and idk how much that was an opportunity to boost himself than anything.

3rd/4th liners of course can be found in that range as most of have said for the last 7 years but second liners is not likely.

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/forward/ufa/

 

[iceburg]

Edler’s replacement is Rathbone obviously. How many times have we seen Hughes, Juolevi, Rathbone listed like they’re all special recently? A lot I’d say.

Hughes-Schmidt
Juolevi-Myers
Rathbone-*****

People expect that next year and they expect it to not be horrible.

I don’t see it.

Actually, of those 5, the one that jumps out at me as the weak link is Myers. I am pretty excited about Rathbone. He could end up being the best all around one of the bunch. Clearly Hughes has creepy level skill offensively but I don't see him ever becoming more than a passable defensive player and he will never bring physicality (he shouldn't have to with the right mix of players). Rathbone on the other hand looks like he can do everything well and his skating and offensive ability are well above par.
I think Juolevi has shown enough that we can reasonably project him as a decent bottom pairing LHD. Maybe he's not quite there yet but I would be surprised if he doesn't meet this expectation within the next year. And, who knows maybe he'll surprise us and be able to move up the line-up.
Myers is who he is. Brings some things to the table but can be a tire fire in his own zone.

Since this is the tank thread, in a couple of years you can likely add to the group one of Luke Hughes, Clarke or Power. Serious D-talent in this coming draft.

 

[bossram]

Yeah I agree completely.........we aren't as far off as some of the doom and gloom crowd are portraying us to be.

Granted whoever comes is in is going to have to ace this years draft..........get us a decent third line center and another piece or two while divesting ourselves of some of our bottom six garbage.

Ideally also this is done before the TDL so that we can trade whatever value we might have (Pearson and Sutter come to mind) for picks.......

It's certainly not a certainty however it's also not at all out of the realm of possibility.

I mean, I'm kinda on the fence on this idea.

On one hand, a new GM will be walking into a very talented young core and a top-five pick. That's an excellent start.

But they'll also have a handicapped salary cap situation, with basically no flexibility to meaningfully improve on the current roster. Any new GM is probably running back a similar roster with marginal upgrades, at best. In order to take a step, this team needs a high-end 3C and another top-4 defenseman. To get those, we'll need to clear cap space (using other picks/assets as payment), and obviously there will be some kind of transaction cost to acquire those players. But the Benning era has left the Canucks so bereft of fungible assets, it'll be extremely difficult for a new GM to make those moves.

 

[iceburg]

Maybe that’s why we signed Holtby for two years; it’s a two year tank?

Actually, a 2 year tank might be the best of all worlds. If JB and Co get let go after this season, they pick up one of the stud D at the draft, wash out the remaining bad contracts next year and enter the 2022 offseason with another top 5 pick, target BPA, likely a forward, and will have some cap flexibility since the only bad contract left on the books will be Myers.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Ideally we can enter 2022-23 up one Luke Hughes, down three or four terrible contracts and with our young stars entering their primes.

Need to draft a defenceman this season.

 

[iceburg]

Ideally we can enter 2022-23 up one Luke Hughes, down three or four terrible contracts and with our young stars entering their primes.

Need to draft a defenceman this season.

Yes. It's looking like the year of the ascension is 2022.

 

[theguardianII]

It is sad sometimes when fans just can't wrap their heads around the concept of where star players come from or how those teams got them.
Educated fans will support the idea of trying to get the best players through the draft.
The lower in the standings the better players available through every round of the draft.
Gillis quite often had 28th+ picks 1rst round and 56th 2nd
Benning has had 4th to 26th and more of them with 2nd round being almost the same as Gillis's 1rst rnd selections
Benning's 2nd - #34 vs Gillis's 1rst - 28th.

That said the NHL is changing the odds again to help lower teams get better chances at the top 3 players.
It is not just the 1rst round, it is all the rounds.
Now that makes these picks higher valued assets in any trade getting better players in return.

Benning handcuffing the team through cap management has left it with no option but to "see what is in the pipeline" or "they are dumping salary"

I know nobody even likes to see a player named sometimes but IMO a huge player asset to trade is Hughes.
Here is why I think it
He is really, really small for defence making board battles and in front of the net almost a loss every time. Defence is in the DZone. He has to be able to defend.
Sure he is a fan favourite because he has been touted Vancouver's greatest and gets on the score sheet.
But for every point he gets the other team is scoring almost 2 points while he is on the ice. That is a negative. Anyone but him in his position would be crucified by the fans.
In the playoffs he got eaten alive, other dmen in his class year and the next surpassed him.

Horvat has to be getting used to losing, that can happen, 8 years.
Boeser's next contract handcuffs the team again so he should be a candidate as well.

Both of those players will get instant returns of the 2 to 1 type. Player/prospect and pick

Sutter and Pearson, their contracts are up, if necessary retention with Sutter, picks would be best to use for the expansion draft.

Holtby if another backup goalie under contract comes back with a pick
I think Eriksson can be bought out AFTER his bonus is paid, still a 4 mil cap for one year but a salary savings overall.
Benn should get a pick.

If enough trades are made there might be enough cap space for the remainder of the year to take on an expiring contract from a team needing cap space to make a trade, an extra draft pick, 2nd rnd minimum.

This team is so handcuffed the repair and improvement will take one more season after this. The 2022/2023 year should be the year this team hammers the playoffs.

 

[SamInVan]

If the goal is to get the highest pick possible shouldn’t we go with Holtby more?

Demko is our future and needs a run of starts or will never develop into our #1.

Next year is already a write off and Holtby's contract will be up. Trade him, expose him or drop him.