GDT: 2 Yutes: Blue Jackets @ Devils, 12:30 PM, MSG+

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Bleedred

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You're right, all of these things are problems - but they all complement each other.

I defend the goaltending on a regular basis, because 9/10 goals have been because of massive defensive breakdowns. I would've liked KK to have made that save on the flutterball. He hasn't been good.

But sometimes you just point to SV% like it means something. His .8xxSV% over the last 12 is NOT because he's been terrible. The team has been terrible, and there have only been a couple of games where he's been exceptional enough to cover for it. And, yes - he's sucked at times too -

Let's face facts - this isn't even as good a team as last year's squad, when the goaltending had to be exceptional to win - and EVERYONE exceeded expectations...

And then we lose Moore, Gibbons, Maroon and Grabner. Granted, none of those were expected to hurt at all - but at least those 4 were seemingly NHLers. Right now, it is hard to watch this team because there are at least 6 guys who shouldn't be in the NHL right now starting for this team - and that includes guys like Greene and Lovejoy, Stafford, Santini, Seney.. and guys like Zacha, Wood, Mueller, Butcher and Quenneville, who have the tools but just can't put it together right now.

Even our supposed blue chip talents Vats and Severson have been bad - It's just an all around mess and you are correct - it's hard to figure out where the blame lies - because there's just tons of it to go around.

I can't even post anything during games anymore, because I hate the constant bashing the team gets on this board and on the ice and I'm looking for something positive.

Even in losses last year, you could point to someone making strides or doing something unexpectedly good - like KK making a save, or Coleman/Gibbons/Bratt/Nico/Butcher etc... There was always SOMETHING to be happy about.

Other than Palms continuing to be a steal, Travis having a good year, Coleman coming to play every game and now Blackwood... crap. It is pretty bleak out there.
Fair enough, but here's one other elephant in the room this year that I know someone is gonna probably scream at me over.

Zacha has 5 goals and 0 assists in like 29 or 30 games this year? I think he had over twice as many points after he played 30 games last year.

Miles Wood had 19 goals last year. What's he have this year? 3? Hardly any points, producing at the rate of a 4th liner. He played very low minutes last year and scored over 30 points. He had a great season, this year he's done nothing.

These two players have really taken steps back as far as the offense they've churned out.

Coleman is really the only guy that's exceeded expectations. I guess Bratt and Nico have also, but not as much as Coleman has. That's not a knock on Nico or Bratt, they're progressing just fine.
 
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billingtons ghost

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Fair enough, but here's one other elephant in the room this year that I know someone is gonna probably scream at me over.

Zacha has 5 goals and 0 assists in like 29 or 30 games this year? I think he had over twice as many points after he played 30 games last year.

Miles Wood had 19 goals last year. What's he have this year? 3? Hardly any points, producing at the rate of a 4th liner. He played very low minutes last year and scored over 30 points. He had a great season, this year he's done nothing.

These two players have really taken steps back as far as the offense they've churned out.

Coleman is really the only guy that's exceeded expectations. I guess Bratt and Nico have also, but not as much as Coleman has. That's not a knock on Nico or Bratt, they're progressing just fine.

Yeah, I agree all around.

I don't kill Wood and Zacha as much because they're still young, and Wood clearly has gamebreaking abilities. That wand job to get the breakaway was pretty good stuff. Zacha has 5 goals - that's actually 1/2 of Hall's output, and one behind Mojo - so

It does seem like they are in the same malaise that we fell into last year, and that Johnny Mac's team had. They look like they've forgotten how to play hockey - to quote Jacques - and it seems to be a teamwide malaise.

And it seem like it is spreading and getting progressively worse, as kids come in (like Seney, or JQ) and look good for a game, and immediately start to fade.

Guys get a little momentum, and then seem to lose confidence and they just look like garbage. All on Hynes then, I guess?
 
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Emperoreddy

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That IS cherrypicking though. You're completely WRONG with this.

Cory has been a .903% goaltender over his last 100 games. .901% over his last 96 regular season games.

That's what he is now, what he's been 100 games.

So tell me how I'm the one cherrypicking now? You can't because I'm not. Using a random 25 game stretch would be cherrypicking. It's important to look at larger trends now and those numbers are a very large trend and sample size.

Like I said, he might not be the .876% goaltender he's been over the last 25 games, but he's not the .923% goalie he was through the first 28 games last year either. He's somewhere in between, which is a .903% goalie and we can't have that for 3 more years. He's gotta go. Not sure why you can't accept that he's finished. Some of you people are holding onto him more than Marty.

Look I’ll agree with you on this. Cory is not going to have any kind of miracle run this season. He doesn’t seem to have it in him, and Hynes seems to have zero inclination to give him a stretch net.

Hypothetically though if he put up strong numbers from now to the end of the season, you have to factor that in. Especially because his hip was a big reason he fell off a cliff last season.

What the team does in this situation is a bigger hypothetical, but at the very least it makes the last resort buyout less likely.

We should also want him to have a strong end of season. Both becayse he is a Devil, and also good play from Cory gives us more options in figuring out what to do with him.

This Cory has only one option, and it’s a buyout which is an awful buyout better off avoided if possible.
 
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BahlDeep

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That's fair, but the goals where poor goaltending hurts you aren't the backdoor goals or goals like the second goal against today. It's the same thing with when I said the own goals in the Anaheim game aren't what's causing Cory's play to be that bad this year. It's the other goals he allows that leave no margin for error.

We can blame Hynes and ****, I don't like Hynes either. I bet I disliked him before most of this board did. Many people here seem to flip flop on him, depending on if we're winning or not. If we do good next year and I continue to ***** about him, I can see the same people calling him trash now, getting mad at me if I badmouth him next year.

But other than that, I challenge anybody to find me 4 or 5 worse starting goaltenders in the NHL than Keith Kinkaid. I don't think you're gonna get much further than 3 or 4. Jake Allen or Mike Smith? Jacob Markstrom maybe? There's 3 that I can think of. Count Cam Ward as 4 if Crawford doesn't play again this year. Ottawa is the worst defensive team in the league and 37 year old Craig Anderson has somehow been able to play barely below average there.. And in 23 more minutes played this year behind that team, 35 year old career AHL joirneyman Mike McKenna has been able to stop 5% more of the shots he's faced than Schneider has. And even if you were to count Schneider as the starter, every goalie worse than him over the last 2 years has either been exiled from the league or is a journeyman backup. Schneider has the worst save percentage in the league out of goalies that have played more than 4 games and he's looked murder scene bad on the eye test.

So when your goalie tandem is made up of a 29 year old career backup, with no real ceiling, who has been forced into a starting role and a Schneider that either shouldn't have been cleared to play in the first place or just looks like he needs to retire and hasn't played a respectable game in 7 starts, that's all the evidence you need as to why the goaltending is the way it's been this year.

Here's another challenge, find me 3 other team who are worse then us in our own zone
 
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BahlDeep

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Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I'd suggest a not insignificant chunk of the "terrible goaltending" is directly attributable to the terrible defense.

I mean I'm sure I could watch all the goals again, and count how many times we blew coverage significantly, must be at least more then half the goals
 

JrFischer54

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these kids need an established nhl coach a veteran coach and they need it badly. Them taking a step back this year is 100% on the coaching staff but like I said I am 10000000000000000000% positive that no changes in coaching will be made until the end of the season. I dont want to say it but the devils/management/ownership whoever already wrote this season off as a loss imo. NO THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE TANKING or that I want them to tank. It just means they know they aren't going anywhere and accepted that. The shame is that there really aren't any parts (non core) on this roster that playoff teams would find interesting enough to trade for.
 

BahlDeep

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Sure, it sucks to miss the playoffs and I think a lot of us expected a bubble team, but to miss the playoffs in this fashion is absolutely disgusting.

No identity, no progress, getting our asses handed to us on a nightly basis, no defense, no goaltending, our offense is meh other then the first line, our powerplay is absolutely abysmal, our overtime strategy is the worst I've ever seen.

I mean when so many things are going wrong, who else to blame then the coaching staff? Shero also have to be held accountable.

I have never seen a devils team allow so many goals on blown coverage. Other teams are literally exploiting the back door play, and you know how what we did to correct this? Absolutely f*** all
 
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tr83

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Sure, it sucks to miss the playoffs and I think a lot of us expected a bubble team, but to miss the playoffs in this fashion is absolutely disgusting.

No identity, no progress, getting our asses handed to us on a nightly basis, no defense, no goaltending, our offense is meh other then the first line, our powerplay is absolutely abysmal, our overtime strategy is the worst I've ever seen.

I mean when so many things are going wrong, who else to blame then the coaching staff? Shero also have to be held accountable.

I have never seen a devils team allow so many goals on blown coverage. Other teams are literally exploiting the back door play, and you know how what we did to correct this? Absolutely **** all

But we shed the identity as a trap team.

Isn't that a win? :sarcasm:

Shero's seat needs to get very hot. I understand a regression is possible, but we're looking at having a worse season than 14-15. That team was bad. That makes this team worse.
 

Blender

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Sure, it sucks to miss the playoffs and I think a lot of us expected a bubble team, but to miss the playoffs in this fashion is absolutely disgusting.

No identity, no progress, getting our asses handed to us on a nightly basis, no defense, no goaltending, our offense is meh other then the first line, our powerplay is absolutely abysmal, our overtime strategy is the worst I've ever seen.

I mean when so many things are going wrong, who else to blame then the coaching staff? Shero also have to be held accountable.

I have never seen a devils team allow so many goals on blown coverage. Other teams are literally exploiting the back door play, and you know how what we did to correct this? Absolutely **** all
I had no problem accepting that we might miss the playoffs this season, but to be embarrassed like this is absolutely disgusting as you say.
 

Emperoreddy

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I had no problem accepting that we might miss the playoffs this season, but to be embarrassed like this is absolutely disgusting as you say.

It is the downside of being a bubble team though. It doesn’t take too much going wrong for things to get ugly.

Honestly my biggest issue is how soft they play. Yeah there isn’t a lot of natural grit in the lineup, but that doesn’t excuse them.

Look at Seney. Kid weighs 20 pounds, but he plays big. Most of the team doesn’t do that. They shy away from contact and play soft.
 

My3Sons

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It is the downside of being a bubble team though. It doesn’t take too much going wrong for things to get ugly.

Honestly my biggest issue is how soft they play. Yeah there isn’t a lot of natural grit in the lineup, but that doesn’t excuse them.

Look at Seney. Kid weighs 20 pounds, but he plays big. Most of the team doesn’t do that. They shy away from contact and play soft.

Because they have to rely too much on effort and emotion rather than natural talent and ability. It’s hard to go 100% when you don’t believe in the system and you don’t see much hope of success for your efforts. Last season the players made the effort in part because it was working and the extra bumps and bruises don’t hurt as much when you are fighting for playoff seeding and the crowd is cheering for you. Hopefully they can get a few lucky bounces and start believing in themselves again to get them to start going the extra mile. Some like Coleman and Seney seem to be making that effort all the time. I think Nico does as well in his own way (he is like the energizer bunny out there no matter how much he is hit sticked and outright cheap shorted). Others do at times - Boyle and Sevs seem to fit that style - others may be trying but are in vapor lock and look effortless - Wood and to a lesser extent PZ. Hall and Palms are trying but having to carry the entire offense and team failure every day has to be wearing on them.
 

MadDevil

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For everyone who *****ed that the trap was boring, well I was having 1,000% more fun watching games when we played the trap.

Sure, because we won more often than not.

I don't have a problem with how they want to play. They're just not entirely equipped to do it consistently, or simply don't execute it properly. Now if you want to get on Hynes and Co. for not adjusting to what they do have, or for not getting the players to execute it properly, that's completely fair. The fact that the team seems to alternate between buying in and not buying in (or just being terrible at executing it) from season to season is worrisome. I don't know if that's more of an indictment on the coach or the players, but one is a lot easier to change than the other.
 

captainscott

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Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I'd suggest a not insignificant chunk of the "terrible goaltending" is directly attributable to the terrible defense.

give me a break every team has break downs in defensive zone... agreed this team is not super tight defensively but our best goalie is 39th in save pct. goaltending is the biggest problem on this team right now.. with better goaltending this team is in the thick of things like a middle of pack team.. end of story the goaltending is brutal... every team gives up tons of chances NHL goalies make tons of great saves on a nightly our guys don't .. thats the difference between last place and fighting for a playoff spot
 

captainscott

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The only people who thought the trap was "boring", were fans of teams routinely losing 3-1 to the Devils.

Funny how that works.

it was a more boring brand of hockey.. but also 15 years ago... the league is so much different now.. that team also had rafalski stevens neidermayer dano white etc etc... the talent level aint quite that level here.. those old devils teams were a lock.. not to mention if it all broke down they had an all time great in net not keith kinkaid... no offense to the latter..

i have no issue with hynes as a coach... i think he needs better players.. and i think they need to add some beef to this lineup asap
 

captainscott

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these kids need an established nhl coach a veteran coach and they need it badly. Them taking a step back this year is 100% on the coaching staff but like I said I am 10000000000000000000% positive that no changes in coaching will be made until the end of the season. I dont want to say it but the devils/management/ownership whoever already wrote this season off as a loss imo. NO THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE TANKING or that I want them to tank. It just means they know they aren't going anywhere and accepted that. The shame is that there really aren't any parts (non core) on this roster that playoff teams would find interesting enough to trade for.

lets start with better goaltending and see where we stand.. i hate that everyone is over complicating it..lets see if blackwood can come in and settle things down between the pipes maybe steal a game or two get the confidence up... i can only remember 1 or 2 stellar goaltending performances this season.. the difference in this league is minimal ...
 

JimEIV

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Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I'd suggest a not insignificant chunk of the "terrible goaltending" is directly attributable to the terrible defense.
No doubt this true but I wouldn't let the goaltending off that easy.

Some of the goals on the first and second shots of the game going threw the goaltender are inexcusable.
 

JrFischer54

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i dont know where the trap came into this or what people think of it. bottom line is that the trap WAS/IS boring and has no place in hockey. Theres playing good defense and trying to score and win and then there is playing defense with the object to win 2-1.

if it was possible and its not to go back in time and play the trap like it was back in the 90s and have that success i still wouldn't want to do it. we dont get anything out of the devils winning games and cups except enjoyment. to me trap isn't enjoyable at all. maybe when i was a teen back then and didn't now any better but now? i want to be entertained for my dollar and time both of which are more valuable to me then a trap filled 2-1 win against the yotes on a tuesday night in january
 

devilsblood

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give me a break every team has break downs in defensive zone... agreed this team is not super tight defensively but our best goalie is 39th in save pct. goaltending is the biggest problem on this team right now.. with better goaltending this team is in the thick of things like a middle of pack team.. end of story the goaltending is brutal... every team gives up tons of chances NHL goalies make tons of great saves on a nightly our guys don't .. thats the difference between last place and fighting for a playoff spot

Ya, our best goalie is really our backup who has become a starter only because our true starter has a bum hip.

Defense is certainly open for criticism, but goal tending is a clear cut issue on it's own.
 
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JrFischer54

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lets start with better goaltending and see where we stand.. i hate that everyone is over complicating it..lets see if blackwood can come in and settle things down between the pipes maybe steal a game or two get the confidence up... i can only remember 1 or 2 stellar goaltending performances this season.. the difference in this league is minimal ...

goaltending has been an issue but until the players learn to put their sticks in the lanes and tie up players around the net it doesn't matter what goalie is in there
 

devilsblood

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It is the downside of being a bubble team though. It doesn’t take too much going wrong for things to get ugly.

Honestly my biggest issue is how soft they play. Yeah there isn’t a lot of natural grit in the lineup, but that doesn’t excuse them.

Look at Seney. Kid weighs 20 pounds, but he plays big. Most of the team doesn’t do that. They shy away from contact and play soft.

I look at the lineup and don't see a lack of grit. Coleman, Wood, Boyle Vat's Lovejoy. Hall is not a guy who I would say plays soft.

I don't think Nico or Bratt play soft, but they are certainly not the biggest guys and they are young, so they can be pushed around a bit.
 
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