GDT: 2 Yutes: Blue Jackets @ Devils, 12:30 PM, MSG+

[haak84]

Couldn't catch the game today at all. Was the lopsided shots any indication of any dominance?

19 of 39 shots from the D

 

[Whaddagoal]

Ouch. Okay, lot of peripheral stuff then......

Well, there goes any streak.....

 

[Bleedred]

It is a bit funny you are accusing people of cherry picking when what you are saying is the exact definition of cherry picking.

Removing stats because it doesn’t fit your narrative is cherry picking.

Cory magically having a strong second half absolutely changes how you approach him. He isn’t going to actually have one because he is too broken, but if by some miracle he did you can’t just disregard it.

That would be really really stupid.

That IS cherrypicking though. You're completely WRONG with this.

Cory has been a .903% goaltender over his last 100 games. .901% over his last 96 regular season games.

That's what he is now, what he's been 100 games.

So tell me how I'm the one cherrypicking now? You can't because I'm not. Using a random 25 game stretch would be cherrypicking. It's important to look at larger trends now and those numbers are a very large trend and sample size.

Like I said, he might not be the .876% goaltender he's been over the last 25 games, but he's not the .923% goalie he was through the first 28 games last year either. He's somewhere in between, which is a .903% goalie and we can't have that for 3 more years. He's gotta go. Not sure why you can't accept that he's finished. Some of you people are holding onto him more than Marty.

 

[Bleedred]

I'd have to disagree. If Cory by some miracle has that kind of success to finish the season, and passes the eye test, e.g. very few softies, then they would be wise to at least not buy him out.

Say he has a .920% stretch to end the season over 25 games.

He'd probably still be a .906% goalie or so over a 125 game stretch. Or threabouts. Cory is finished.

Toast.

He can't be here next year and I don't think Kinkaid can either.

 

[Bleedred]

Reading into Hynes comments about Blackwood getting a real good look here after the break, I'm thinking Cory won't be back any time soon, if ever at all. And after reading that bit in Freidman's column, I think it's possible that he's finished playing in the NHL and could be LTIR'd after this year. Maybe he'll be given a job with the team like Clowe was.

I'm starting to believe more than ever that we won't see Cory or Keith here next year, but Blackwood will have a chance to earn a backup spot next year and we'll sign or trade for somebody else to be the starter/1b. It's too early to say if Blackwood is good or not or if he will be good enough to be on the roster next year, but I think we've seen the last of Cory and more likely than not Keith after this year. Still a reasonable chance he's kept as the backup at a cheap contract.

 

[NJDevs26]

I mean we all get a good laugh about Lou LTIR'ing people but I don't think they can literally just LTIR Cory on a whim, unless we've become one of the golden teams that they'll let him have some 'skin disease'. It's more likely they kick him overseas and just eat the entire contract the next three years, or two years before buying out the last year. Or trade him 50% retained and take back another lesser bad contract.

I do agree that next year the goaltending tandem is likely patchwork starter for a year or two/Blackwood backup. Until recently I thought Kinkaid could be the patchwork starter but now they have to make a clean break I think, all his goodwill from last year is gone.

 

[Cage Helmet]

I'd have to disagree. If Cory by some miracle has that kind of success to finish the season, and passes the eye test, e.g. very few softies, then they would be wise to at least not buy him out.

Him having a strong remainder of the season and keeping him one more year wouldn’t be the worst thing. It would buy an extra year which in turn buys us two years without having to have the buyout cap hit. I’d look to use a compliance buyout the next year provided a new CBA comes into play. Or use a regular buyout. Management just can’t be fooled into thinking this means he’s good again. A 20-25 game stretch of strong play from Schneids does not indicate he’s fixed or even decent. It just means that he’s a poor tender having a good stretch of work. It might show that he’s still serviceable and can be relied on to be the backup for one more year. He can’t be the starter or go-to for multiple reasons. Besides performance issues he’s shown that he’s too beat up and unreliable physically for that gig anymore.

 

[Bleedred]

I mean we all get a good laugh about Lou LTIR'ing people but I don't think they can literally just LTIR Cory on a whim, unless we've become one of the golden teams that they'll let him have some 'skin disease'. It's more likely they kick him overseas and just eat the entire contract the next three years, or two years before buying out the last year. Or trade him 50% retained and take back another lesser bad contract.

I do agree that next year the goaltending tandem is likely patchwork starter for a year or two/Blackwood backup. Until recently I thought Kinkaid could be the patchwork starter but now they have to make a clean break I think, all his goodwill from last year is gone.

I've seen this said before, but how often do we actually see NHL guys loaned out to Europe? Huet is the only goalie I can think of it happening to in the last I don't know how many years. We did it with Pikkawhateverhisnamewas, but I'm pretty sure he was on a one year deal and just had whatever was remaining that year left on it.

What does ''Eat the contract'' mean? Like send to the AHL for the next few years?

I understand wanting to put off the buyout a year if possible and maybe waiting to see if the CBA allows an amnesty buyout and doing away with it then, but why would we have to wait until the last year of his deal to buy him out? We bought out Cammalleri with 2 years remaining, who made $5 million a year, if I recall correctly. So while it would be more of a hit on our cap than Cammalleri's buyout, it's not like we haven't bought out a bigger money deal with a little term remaining in years now. I just think a lot of fans are more worried about taking a buyout on him than management and ownership probably is.

And as far as LTIR goes, I'm no doctor, but he could be pretty close to being told ''It's in your best interest not to play anymore, because your hip is shot''. And with how poor he's looked, I don't see the league find much skepticism in it.

 

[MadDevil]

GMs find all kinds of interesting ways to get rid of bad contracts so I'm not worried about dealing with Cory. Plus, while his contract is an eyesore, it shouldn't actually hurt us for a few years, and by then the buyout would be for a shorter period of time and probably easier to swallow for ownership (who I would imagine would like to pay Cory to not play for them as few years as possible).

I'm more worried about trying to find a starting goalie solution for next year. While Kinkaid has done an admirable job over the last calendar year, I don't trust him to be a 50+ game starter. The absolute best case scenario would be Blackwood continuing to play well and earning the starter's job, but I don't know how likely that is.

Although if we don't figure out something defensively it's not going to matter who is in goal anyway. The kind of defensive breakdowns this team has would require some MVP level goaltending, and pretty much anybody we bring in is likely going to have some question marks.

 

[Bleedred]

GMs find all kinds of interesting ways to get rid of bad contracts so I'm not worried about dealing with Cory. Plus, while his contract is an eyesore, it shouldn't actually hurt us for a few years, and by then the buyout would be for a shorter period of time and probably easier to swallow for ownership (who I would imagine would like to pay Cory to not play for them as few years as possible).

I'm more worried about trying to find a starting goalie solution for next year. While Kinkaid has done an admirable job over the last calendar year, I don't trust him to be a 50+ game starter. The absolute best case scenario would be Blackwood continuing to play well and earning the starter's job, but I don't know how likely that is.

Although if we don't figure out something defensively it's not going to matter who is in goal anyway. The kind of defensive breakdowns this team has would require some MVP level goaltending, and pretty much anybody we bring in is likely going to have some question marks.

But as I've argued, his presence on the team (having to rely on him as a goaltender, even just the backup in his current state) hurts the team more than his actual contract. If it were allowed, I'd be all for paying him to go away next year, having his entire cap hit on the books for 19-20, then hoping the new CBA has an amnesty clause the next year and buying out then.

I think as a favor to him as a human being and not just a number or ''Contract'', we'd be doing right by him by buying him out and letting him look for work elsewhere, rather than sending to Binghamton or Europe for 3 more years, where he'll then have to uproot his family or be separated from them and have to ride the buses for 3 more years. That's a bigger insult to him as a person than buying him out and wishing him well and seeing if someone else will give him the work.

As far as Kinkaid goes, what we're seeing now is exactly why I argued against giving him a 2-3 year deal for $2.5-$3.5 million per back in October when he looked like the best goalie in the league after 2 weeks into the season. We already have one bad goalie contract here, we don't need another one. That would have been the ultimate knee jerk move, signing him to a multi-year deal in October.

 

[devilsfan35]

After January 1st I expect ray to start selling. We are now tied with LA at the bottom of the league. Stockpile picks and prospects

 

[Bleedred]

After January 1st I expect ray to start selling. We are now tied with LA at the bottom of the league. Stockpile picks and prospects

I'll never cheer against wins, no matter how low in the standings we are, but what I am fed up with is the amount of OT losses.

f*** OT losses at this point. If we go to OT, win the f***in game. If we're not gonna win the game, lose in regulation. The OT losses do us no good anymore.

 

[Bleedred]

I find it really hard to nail Keith on the first goal. It was a backdoor goal. He may have had enough time to get set on it, but if I counted that as a stoppable goal, there'd be A LOT more stoppable goals going on around the league. That's when we start getting into crazy territory like blaming Marty for the game-tying backdoor goal against Carolina, which quite honestly, would have been a much tougher save than the goal today, as the puck moved a lot quicker across the ice and Marty had further to go to get across on that play.

Obviously I think we'd all agree that he had no chance on goal 2.

Goal 3 was a miserable stinker. Not the worst goal he's allowed this year, I can think of at least two worse than that, one against Nashville in October and one against Tampa a few weeks back, but that was pretty poor.

 

[BahlDeep]

Hynes blaming the goaltenders, when his system has no defensive structure

 

[tr83]

Hynes blaming the goaltenders, when his system has no defensive structure

I wonder if Cory Schneider throws some shade at Hynes because he's not getting ANY help.

I wouldn't put up with that shit.

 

[Bleedred]

Hynes blaming the goaltenders, when his system has no defensive structure

That's a fair point from you, but when we're seeing stinkers like the third goal go in today regularly, you gotta blame the goaltending.

I give Kinkaid more of a pass just because he wasn't signed to be the starter here and he's had to be the starter for the last almost calendar year, due to incompetency at the position.

I wonder if Cory Schneider throws some shade at Hynes because he's not getting ANY help.

I wouldn't put up with that ****.

.851% is almost historically bad. He's got some balls if he's blaming Hynes or the structure. That's not even respectable in the worst defensive system in the history of hockey in the year 2018. He shouldn't be throwing shade at anyone, other than maybe the medical staff for allowing to go back on the ice again in his condition. Not saying they're definitely to blame or that he shouldn't be cleared, but it's one or the other. Him or the medical staff to blame.

 

[tr83]

That's a fair point from you, but when we're seeing stinkers like the third goal go in today regularly, you gotta blame the goaltending.

I give Kinkaid more of a pass just because he wasn't signed to be the starter here and he's had to be the starter for the last almost calendar year, due to incompetency at the position.

.851% is almost historically bad. He's got some balls if he's blaming Hynes or the structure. That's not even respectable in the worst defensive system in the history of hockey in the year 2018. He shouldn't be throwing shade at anyone, other than maybe the medical staff for allowing to go back on the ice again in his condition. Not saying they're definitely to blame or that he shouldn't be cleared, but it's one or the other. Him or the medical staff to blame.

No, it's not.

But you know it's a matter of time before Blackwood's game regresses. No goalie is going to have the proper mentality to win games if the backdoor isn't covered, 2 on 1's multiple times per period because of fancy blue line drop passes, and bad man to man D that leaves a forward out of position down low.

Cory should know by now that he's not coming back with Hynes behind the bench and his contract won't be bought out.

 

[BahlDeep]

That's a fair point from you, but when we're seeing stinkers like the third goal go in today regularly, you gotta blame the goaltending.

I give Kinkaid more of a pass just because he wasn't signed to be the starter here and he's had to be the starter for the last almost calendar year, due to incompetency at the position.

.851% is almost historically bad. He's got some balls if he's blaming Hynes or the structure. That's not even respectable in the worst defensive system in the history of hockey in the year 2018. He shouldn't be throwing shade at anyone, other than maybe the medical staff for allowing to go back on the ice again in his condition. Not saying they're definitely to blame or that he shouldn't be cleared, but it's one or the other. Him or the medical staff to blame.

Sure, but when you see backdoor goals scored against every game... it's really getting stupid.

 

[Bleedred]

No, it's not.

But you know it's a matter of time before Blackwood's game regresses. No goalie is going to have the proper mentality to win games if the backdoor isn't covered, 2 on 1's multiple times per period because of fancy blue line drop passes, and bad man to man D that leaves a forward out of position down low.

Cory should know by now that he's not coming back with Hynes behind the bench and his contract won't be bought out.

I don't think Cory is coming back (if by coming back, you mean coming back to playing at even an average level over a full season or more) under any coach. It's not Hynes fault or his systems fault that Cory can't stop wraparounds, leaves the short side open, lets in horrific goals and can't keep a routine glove save from bouncing between his legs and into the back of the net.
And how do you know his contract won't be bought out? Why do you say this? Is this more ''The owners won't allow it! They're cheap!'' talk? Judging by Shero's comments in that Athletic interview, it's now looking more likely than ever that Cory's getting bought out, if we can't stick him on IR permanently. We bought out Cammalleri's contract 2 years ago, which had a decent amount remaining on it and two years left, we paid Zubrus to go away for a year (I understand it was just one year), if a player doesn't fit here, Shero is gonna buy him out.

 

[Bleedred]

Sure, but when you see backdoor goals scored against every game... it's really getting stupid.

That's fair, but the goals where poor goaltending hurts you aren't the backdoor goals or goals like the second goal against today. It's the same thing with when I said the own goals in the Anaheim game aren't what's causing Cory's play to be that bad this year. It's the other goals he allows that leave no margin for error.

We can blame Hynes and f***, I don't like Hynes either. I bet I disliked him before most of this board did. Many people here seem to flip flop on him, depending on if we're winning or not. If we do good next year and I continue to bitch about him, I can see the same people calling him trash now, getting mad at me if I badmouth him next year.

But other than that, I challenge anybody to find me 4 or 5 worse starting goaltenders in the NHL than Keith Kinkaid. I don't think you're gonna get much further than 3 or 4. Jake Allen or Mike Smith? Jacob Markstrom maybe? There's 3 that I can think of. Count Cam Ward as 4 if Crawford doesn't play again this year. Ottawa is the worst defensive team in the league and 37 year old Craig Anderson has somehow been able to play barely below average there.. And in 23 more minutes played this year behind that team, 35 year old career AHL joirneyman Mike McKenna has been able to stop 5% more of the shots he's faced than Schneider has. And even if you were to count Schneider as the starter, every goalie worse than him over the last 2 years has either been exiled from the league or is a journeyman backup. Schneider has the worst save percentage in the league out of goalies that have played more than 4 games and he's looked murder scene bad on the eye test.

So when your goalie tandem is made up of a 29 year old career backup, with no real ceiling, who has been forced into a starting role and a Schneider that either shouldn't have been cleared to play in the first place or just looks like he needs to retire and hasn't played a respectable game in 7 starts, that's all the evidence you need as to why the goaltending is the way it's been this year.

 

[haak84]

kinkaid can bounce back. he was around the same goalie at this point last season. he has played poorly but the bigger issue on this team is coaching and chemistry. kink at 2 years and 3 million is not a bad contract. look at the other goalie contracts in the league.

 

[Bleedred]

I have a theory that there's two things that are keeping Hynes around.

Goaltending being one of them and the other thing is just a theory of mine but it's Taylor Hall. Shero has said more than once that Hall told him he's the best coach he's ever had.

I think if we can get Hall locked up, Hynes will have an incredibly short leash. And if we have a similar record to this next December, Hynes will be offed either by or before this time next year.

Worst case scenario and Hall refuses to re-sign (Which I think Shero trades him if he does refuse to re-sign), Hynes leash also becomes short, even though we've lost Hall. One more year like this will be 5 years and 1 playoff berth under Hynes and you don't see many coaches in the league survive 5 years with one playoff berth. Rebuilding team or not.

 

[Bleedred]

kinkaid can bounce back. he was around the same goalie at this point last season. he has played poorly but the bigger issue on this team is coaching and chemistry. kink at 2 years and 3 million is not a bad contract. look at the other goalie contracts in the league.

Even if it's not a bad contract, we shouldn't be signing it. We already have one very bad goalie contract on the books, that's either going away after this year by way of buyout or LTIR. The only way it won't go away is the absolute worst case scenario that Schneider is injured, but not injured bad enough to never play again, then he can't be cleared to be bought out.

I don't see Kinkaid as a starter. We need better. I'd gladly take him as a backup, but you bring him back as the starter, we're likely seeing the same thing again next year. If he actually has a serviceable backup? Maybe we're not THIS bad, but it will still be a real struggle.

The biggest difference in goalie play between last year and this year is that Schneider on the whole was serviceable last year, but mostly due to his first 28 games. He was poor, but when you take his entire year into play, he was certainly serviceable, which he hasn't been this year. Kinkaid was really poor early in the season last year and just wasn't as bad as his first half, which is probably why he got red hot down the stretch. I don't think he's as bad as his play this year, but he just might be if he's your everyday starter that plays much more than 30-40 games or god forbid 50.

 

[billingtons ghost]

The power play not scoring is a big problem and this is something Kowalsky runs.

Another problem (no pun intended) is that any thing that people claim is a problem, is often times refuted and shot down by someone else.

''Goaltending is a problem'' is met by some with ''No it's not! The defense is bad! Goaltending is NOT the reason this team is where it is!''

''Zacha has 5 points and 0 assists and is supposed to be our second line center'' sometimes gets a ''Well, the team scores enough! Zacha isn't a problem! Offense isn't a problem!''.

Or ''Hynes sucks! Hynes is the problem!'' is sometimes met with a ''Well it's not Hynes fault the goalies can't stop enough shots or that Wood or Zacha can't score more''.

ALL of these things are major problems right now.

You're right, all of these things are problems - but they all complement each other.

I defend the goaltending on a regular basis, because 9/10 goals have been because of massive defensive breakdowns. I would've liked KK to have made that save on the flutterball. He hasn't been good.

But sometimes you just point to SV% like it means something. His .8xxSV% over the last 12 is NOT because he's been terrible. The team has been terrible, and there have only been a couple of games where he's been exceptional enough to cover for it. And, yes - he's sucked at times too -

Let's face facts - this isn't even as good a team as last year's squad, when the goaltending had to be exceptional to win - and EVERYONE exceeded expectations...

And then we lose Moore, Gibbons, Maroon and Grabner. Granted, none of those were expected to hurt at all - but at least those 4 were seemingly NHLers. Right now, it is hard to watch this team because there are at least 6 guys who shouldn't be in the NHL right now starting for this team - and that includes guys like Greene and Lovejoy, Stafford, Santini, Seney.. and guys like Zacha, Wood, Mueller, Butcher and Quenneville, who have the tools but just can't put it together right now.

Even our supposed blue chip talents Vats and Severson have been bad - It's just an all around mess and you are correct - it's hard to figure out where the blame lies - because there's just tons of it to go around.

I can't even post anything during games anymore, because I hate the constant bashing the team gets on this board and on the ice and I'm looking for something positive.

Even in losses last year, you could point to someone making strides or doing something unexpectedly good - like KK making a save, or Coleman/Gibbons/Bratt/Nico/Butcher etc... There was always SOMETHING to be happy about.

Other than Palms continuing to be a steal, Travis having a good year, Coleman coming to play every game and now Blackwood... crap. It is pretty bleak out there.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I keep hearing about 'no defensive system' but it sure seems like alot of our goals are the result of breakdowns after egregious turnovers; and it seems to me more like decision-making on the part of our young defensemen and forwards who stop skating.

I mean in the last few games, almost all of the goals have been off of either a rush, or some failure of the defense to reset and understand the play.

On almost all of the previous goals in the past few games, you end up with these cases where one D is pressuring the puck and one is trying to figure out who to tie up, but then either fails to cut the pass, fails to tie a guy up, or picks one guy in front of the net and a forward loses his check.

No?