2-PER-DECADE Semi-final: Freshwater Bogtrotters vs. Philadelphia Firebirds

[VanIslander]

The Freshwater Bogtrotters

Ted Lindsay (A) - Bobby Clarke (C) - Gordie Howe
Aurel Joliat - Howie Morenz - Mike Bossy
Sid Abel - Newsy Lalonde - Boris Mikhailov
Jack Walker - Henri Richard - Hooley Smith

Denis Potvin (A) - Eddie Shore
Slava Fetisov - Al MacInnis
Hod Stuart - Earl Seibert

Patrick Roy
Percy Leseur


vs.


Philadelphia Firebirds

Bobby Hull - Mario Lemieux (C) - Jari Kurri
Busher Jackson - Joe Sakic (C) - Guy Lafleur
Tommy Phillps - Nels Stewart - Bryan Hextall Sr.
Blair Russel -Bryan Trottier- Cecil Dillon

Sprague Cleghorn - Doug Harvey
Chris Pronger (A) - Red Kelly
Georges Boucher -Blackjack Stewart

Glenn Hall
Clint Benedict
​

Click to read more...

 

[VanIslander]

Feel free to post your special teams and explain match-up strengths and weaknesses. Do so asap.

Tomorrow is Voting Day.

(ANY and all ATDers are encouraged to comment and/or vote.)

 

[Johnny Engine]

Let's have a look at Freshwater's special teams:

Power Play:
Bossy
Shore - Morenz - Howe
MacInnis

Lalonde
Joliat - Lindsay - Clarke
Potvin
​

Howe, Morenz and Shore with MacInnis's cannon and Bossy as a finisher, what's not to like? I like displaying my power play units this way, not because I expect them to work with a completely cookie-cutter 2020 playbook, but rather because it's a useful way to get across certain information about the player's roles beyond "up front" and "the point", and it also forces you to choose a good mix of shooters, playmakers, and heavy-in-traffic guys. Which defenseman is likely to walk down the wall and take more chances from the circles or even lower? (Shore) Who's the second guy crashing the net when a rebound pops out? (Morenz, Lindsay) What forwards have the most space to operate and make plays? (Howe, Joliat, Clarke). Morenz takes faceoffs for the first unit and Clarke for the second, with Lalonde and Howe as the first guys in if someone gets thrown out. That means Joliat has to line up on the blueline on faceoffs, as the remaining flank on the second unit, but Fetisov would spell him in that role if we believe there's a higher risk of a counterattack. The first two guys to get a look on the power play when someone else is cold or unavailable are Mikhailov and Fetisov.

Penalty Kill:
Walker - Clarke
Potvin - Seibert

Richard - Smith
Fetisov - Shore

Extra PK Forward Pairs:
Abel - Mikhailov
Joliat - Morenz
​

I have an embarrasment of riches on the PK, with 4 capable faceoff men (although Abel plays wing at even strength. MacInnis and Stuart are both usable on the PK and we don't see the need to hide them, but would only do so if someone is serving time. We'd lean towards using Joliat and Morenz more if we feel the oppontent is vulnerable to a shorthanded chance against.

If we're leading with a shift to go, we might deploy this five man unit:

Abel - Clarke - Richard
Potvin - Seibert
​

Walker and Howe, among others, would be trustworthy options, but this is our best balance of quality two-way players who can move the puck out of danger, with our best faceoff man in the middle and a right and left shot on their strong sides.
Our last-shift nuclear scoring option looks like this:

Bossy
Lindsay - Morenz - Howe
Potvin - Shore
​

So why is MacInnis on the top power play but not on this unit? Well, his howitzer is a big source of intimidation and space maker when we have 2 minutes to score, but with few chances and our net empty, just wiring a slapshot into traffic is most likely an instant loss of possession and a 2-goal deficit. We want the puck in Gordie's hands, and the Potvin-Shore pair is our best chance to get it there.
And you might even see the Production Line out there is the line combos start feeling stale.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Let's get out the chalkboard and look at how the Bogtrotters work at even strength:

Lindsay - Clarke - Howe
Potvin - Shore
​

The everything line, going up against the biggest, the baddest and the best. In the offensive zone, Howe and Lindsay basically get to do whatever they want, and Clarke stays high and looks for opportunities to either attack or switch with Shore. We trust Clarke enough to allow Shore and Potvin to err on the aggressive side on 50-50 pucks down the wall. On the rush, Clarke and Shore function as midfielders - both bear much of the of puck-carrying responsibility and either one can jump up to be the 3rd man in on attack. Potvin also has the green light to carry as far as he can, but needs to make sure Clarke has his back. On the forecheck, Lindsay is after the puck like a rocket while Clarke and Howe patrol the netural zone. No surprises in the defensive zone - Howe and Lindsay take the points, and Clarke engages in battles along with whichever defenseman is on the same side as the puck.

Joliat - Morenz - Bossy
Stuart - Seibert
​

The second line primarily plays with the third pair, partially to get an all-time skater on each unit (Morenz, Fetisov), and partially because I want Seibert on with the most passive forwards on the forecheck. We don't have a hellhound like Lindsay (or Mikhailov, Smith) to hunt the endboards, but Bossy should do his job and make the first guy pass most of the time. We're aware that the opposition's best chance is to attack or dump the puck on Stuart's side, to either beat him or make him cross the puck over to Seibert, but Morenz is instructed to circle back deep and help the transition first. Going the other way, it's up to Morenz and Joliat to play give and go while Bossy trails and looks for a bullseye. The pair of Canadiens will also look to circle the offensive zone and take advantage of the space Bossy's gravity around the net creates. In the defensive zone, Stuart is encouraged to skate and engage a little more, because he has a lot of help from Morenz down low and Seibert near the net, while Bossy and Joliat take the points.

Abel - Lalonde - Mikhailov
Fetisov - MacInnis
​

Fetisov is the straw that stirs the drink here, both in the defensive zone and in transition. With the puck, he's got the green light to cross as many lines as he can before this grinding group of forwards starts the cycle. MacInnis's role in transition is to be an outlet valve when Fetisov is successfully stifled by the opposing forcheck - if both need to be activated on the rush, Abel hangs back. In the offensive zone, short, quick passes are the name of the game, with Lalonde and Mikhailov looking for chances to get open in front, and if no opportunities present themselves, the secondary goal is to draw in a winger to give Chopper an extra ten feet of ice to step into one of his bombs. Mikhailov is the first guy in on the forecheck, and Lalonde has the green light to get up higher than most F2s, as he has the very responsible Abel and Fetisov right behind him. In the defensive zone, Abel assumes the centre's responsibility of going deep and chasing the puck, while Lalonde takes the left point opposite Mikhailov. Fetisov is encouraged to engage more while MacInnis protects the house.

Walker - Richard - Smith
Potvin - Shore
​

Mostly defensive zone starts for this group, but when they come off the bench in game flow, they may find themselves skating with either of the other two defense pairs. They'll basically play the same way as the first line in the defensive zone, with Walker and Smith challenging the points and Richard required to make reads and pick his battles. Hooley Smith goes hunting on the forecheck, while Walker and Richard clog lanes and look for turnovers behind them. Henri Richard, like Clarke is the midfielder in transition, but will often defer to either defenseman unless he's out there with Stuart and Seibert. In the offensive zone, Walker goes to the net front and enages in nearby board battles as he's our least talented forward, and keeping the puck in the hands of Richard and Smith is our best chance to not only kill the clock, but also create scoring opportunities against the weakest competition available. Sometimes Howe is on this line, in which case the plan is to keep your ears open and go wherever he tells you to go.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Let's talk matchups!

Lemieux, Harvey & co vs. Howe, Shore and co.
​

I assume this is what we're getting both home and away. The Clarke line is my matchup line every time I have any say over it, and I don't see a checking line on Ted's team that has any business playing 18 minutes at the expense of Lemieux's group. Regarding the 5 individual player vs. player matchups, Ted's centre and my #2 defenseman are about a tier and a half better than their counterparts. My first and second-best wingers are both better than Ted's and his #1 defenseman is better than mine, all by smaller amounts than the first two comparisons. I have the best overall player on the ice (Howe), Ted has the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best (Mario, Harvey, Hull), but also the weakest links out there. So if these two lines aren't perfectly even, they're at least close enough to look at who's facing who at ice level.
One thing that jumps out is that both Howe and Hull have certifiable sociopaths to deal with on their side of the ice. I'd say Howe has a better history of continuing to play his game while getting assaulted regularly than Hull does, though if he just hauls off and beats Cleghorn to a bloody pulp, that's ultimately a pyhrric victory if I have to play without him for 5 minutes. I don't have exact head-to-head results for Lindsay and Harvey at my fingertips, but they both had their time in the sun as key players on 1950s dynasties. There's no one I'd want more to drive Lemieux to distraction than Bobby Clarke, but he (and Shore) may have to play even more conservatively than usual. This might by a good place to give Potvin a bit more rope as he's sharing his ice with the less-concerning Jari Kurri (Kurri's good, but we're in rareified territory here).
So a great matchup here to go punch for punch, but where things may get hairy is that Ted's two strongest defensive players (Harvey and Kurri) are both on the opposite side of the ice from Howe, and handing Kurri centre's responsibilities here might be a bit of a waste against my least dangerous player (Clarke). I think there's an opening here for Gordie to really lead the charge offensively.

The middle six matchups and home ice
​

Here's where we might want different guys facing each other. I won't speak for Ted, but I think it's a pretty good assumption that he wants Guy Lafleur crossing the blueline against Hod Stuart, and man, what can I say about that in a 4-team ATD? Very good chance that the Flower just lights it up in Ted's 3 home dates. I'm not sure if he's got any solid ideas about which pair plays with which line most of the time, but he's going to have to pick his poison when sending Pronger out against either Bossy or Mikhailov, and expect a certain amount of damage from the other one against Georges Boucher.
But I've got the home seed and I have a pretty good idea what I want to happen 4 out of 7 times. So here we go:

Howie Morenz, Earl Seibert & co vs Nels Stewart & co.
​

I think I have a drastic mismatch here. Morenz is gritty, responsible and can skate circles around Stewart, and I've got Seibert to thump him around in the slot when he tries to set up there. Phillips and Hextall is a good pair of wingers for Stewart, but nothing this pair can't handle. I'm not sure which pair of defensemen Joliat and Bossy have to contend with, but pairing their centre Morenz with a slower, defensively indifferent Stewart means they'll be defending odd man rushes more than they'd like. If it's Pronger and Kelly we're getting, the preference is to hold on to the puck as long as possible - dump ins mean we have to forecheck against Red Kelly and we'd like to minimize that. If it's Boucher and J. Stewart, I think we're going to spend a lot of these shifts in the Firebirds' zone.

Newsy Lalonde, Slava Fetisov & co vs Joe Sakic & co.
​

Ted has the more talented forward line here, and I won't try to argue otherwise, but I think putting Sid Abel on Sakic in the defensive zone and Slava Fetisov on Lafleur's side is an adequate defensive plan for the two biggest threats here. On the other side, I think Ted's getting very little from either of his wingers when it comes to pressuring Fetisov and MacInnis, and I'm pretty OK with Lalonde, Mikhailov and Abel trying to grind it out on the boards with either pair of defensemen. If it's Pronger, they might not get much done offensively, but they've got enough spunk to at least make it boring.

Richard & co vs Trottier & co
​

Henri Richard and Bryan Trottier playing 4th line shifts against each other might be the most beautiful or the most boring thing anyone's ever see, but they're both up to it. Trottier has the flashier offensive totals, but Richard is actually ahead of him in even strength VsX, and if either of these guys see a moment of power play time we'll know something has gone terribly wrong. Blair Russell and Cecil Dillon vs. Jack Walker and Hooley Smith? Boooooooooring. Like, I think my pair of wingers is a little better, but to what end? These shifts will go exactly how our coaches intend them to, which is to say nothing will happen.

Patrick Roy vs Glenn Hall
​

I'm of the mind that the team with the better goalie overall has the more meaningful advantage over the better playoff goaltender when it's a question, but in this case I can confidently choose Patrick Roy for both questions. I don't consider Hall a weakness of the Firebirds, but Roy is a clear strength.

 

[ted2019]

Philadelphia Firebirds
Captain: Mario Lemieux
Assistant Captain: Joe Sakic
Assistant Captain: Chris Pronger

Bobby Hull - Mario Lemieux - Jari Kurri
Busher Jackson - Joe Sakic - Guy Lafleur
Tommy Phillps - Nels Stewart - Bryan Hextall Sr.
Blair Russel -Bryan Trottier- Cecil Dillon

Sprague Cleghorn - Doug Harvey
Chris Pronger - Red Kelly
Georges Boucher -Blackjack Stewart

Glenn Hall
Clint Benedict

PP1: Hull - Lemieux - Lafleur
Pronger - Harvey

PP2: Jackson - Sakic - Stewart
Kelly- Hextall Sr.

PK1: Russel - Trottier
Pronger- Stewart

PK2: Kurri - Sakic
Cleghorn - Boucher

If down in the last 2 minutes of a period, the lines will be as such.

Bobby Hull - Mario Lemieux - Guy Lafleur
Busher Jackson - Joe Sakic - Bryan Hextall Sr.
Nels Stewart - Bryan Trottier - Jari Kurri

If up in the last 2 minutes of a period, the lines will be as such.

Tommy Phillps - Bryan Trottier - Jari Kurri
Blair Russel - Joe Sakic - Cecil Dillon
Bobby Hull - Mario Lemieux - Bryan Hextall Sr.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Let's talk about special teams!

Ted doesn't have his listed in this thread, but he has them in the main draft thread, so I'll use those. (He just posted them)

Hull - Lemieux - Lafleur
Pronger - Harvey
vs
Walker - Clarke
Potvin - Seibert
​

I gotta say, I don't love Ted's first power play setup here. I think he's got a really good team and I did not vote them 4th, but I think this is the sort of thing I'd advise against in an assassination for a larger ATD. I think his most dangerous defenseman (Kelly) is on the bench, and all of the forwards are most dangerous from the perimeter. So you're either neutering Hull's shot from a distance, Lemieux or Lafleur's passing, or just creating a donut-shaped powerplay where Roy sees everything. So we've got Jack Walker hunting the top of the zone and making Pronger and Harvey pass the puck, and then 3 formidable defenders on the other 3 guys...I dunno, this would worry me more with a few changes. No Lemieux power play is going to be completely toothless, but I think this matchup is arranged to my advantage.

Jackson - Sakic - Stewart
Kelly - Hextall
vs
Richard - Smith
Fetisov - Shore
​

Another odd arrangement on paper, but I'm going to treat this as if Sakic is lined up in front because you intend for him to take the faceoff, and that he and Kelly will man the points once the dust settles and the Firebirds have the puck. So we have Shore and Stewart doing their best Ahab and the white whale act, and I think they're well matched for that purpose. Smith has a tougher task than Walker does when it comes to chasing Sakic and Kelly around, and I think it's inevitable that they'll both get some open looks, in which case we just have to make sure Stewart's butt isn't in Roy's eyes. Richard and Fetisov should be more than capable of taking space away from Jackson and Hextall, but everyone's going to have to stay on their toes because the puck will be moving quickly on this unit.

Bossy
Shore - Morenz - Howe
MacInnis
vs
Russell - Trottier
Pronger - Stewart
​

Well, I'm not counting on Bossy being left open when Pronger's on the ice, so he's just going to have to stay on his feet and keep battling for position. Shore, MacInnis and Howe's passing lanes have to go through Russell and Trottier, which is a fair fight, but they have to respect MacInnis up there, which should open up some space in the middle for Morenz and Howe. One possible in-game adjustment we could make is letting Morenz handle the puck a little more and send Howe into traffic, if Pronger turns out to be too much trouble. Fair fight here, but I think we can score.

Lalonde
Joliat - Lindsay - Clarke
Potvin
vs
Kurri - Sakic
Cleghorn - Boucher
​

Like Stewart and Shore at the other end, the Lalonde and Cleghorn battle should get nasty. Boucher over Harvey is a bit of an odd choice but I'm willing to listen as to why. It's a bit of a meat and potatoes PP2 unit, based on getting the puck to the middle, without any huge shots compared to some of the other guys in the series. Best case for me: Boucher can't handle whichever one of Lindsay and Lalonde gets clear of Cleghorn. Best case for Ted: lots of moving the puck around the horn and playing keepaway against the shorthanded threat of Sakic and Kurri. Either is likely.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Here are a few other considerations:

Size
Ted has a few giant humans on his team in the form of Pronger, Lemieux and Nels Stewart, and it should be noted that Cleghorn was rather large for his time. In Freshwater, Earl Seibert is our resident Godzilla, Hod Stuart is very large, and Gordie Howe has that Lindros quality where he's only two or three inches taller than most of the guys around but he carries himself like Wilt Chamberlain. The Bogtrotters have a collection of lionhearted small guys - Lindsay, Clarke, Joliat, Richard, but tell those guys they're any smaller than Mario yourself. Sakic is the only guy in either lineup who's both small and passive, but there's a reason I said passive instead of soft.

Speed
There are a few guys who stand out as pure burners on both teams. The Firebirds have Bobby Hull, Guy Lafleur and Busher Jackson, the Bogtrotters have Howie Morenz, Aurel Joliat and Henri Richard. Red Kelly and Slava Fetisov stand out as extremely mobile defensemen. Nels Stewart has to be the worst skater on either team. I hate to be beating an ATD cliche drum, but who else would be?

Intimidation
Shore and Cleghorn both belong in a zoo, and we each have one of those. The Bogtrotters have a few more of the next wave of imposing heavyweights, with Howe, Seibert and Potvin on our side and Pronger on the other. When it comes to average-sized miserable bastards, Mikhailov, Lalonde, Smith call Freshwater home, and Philadelphia has Doug Harvey, Jack Stewart and Bryan Hextall. Hod Stuart has been called "clean" but also "punishing" when he put his frame to work, and Nels Stewart was both huge and a vicious SOB, although we're not as worried about seeing him in the corners if he won't go there. Then there are all the Napoleon complexes on Freshwater. In closing, both teams have a guy who can break people's feet with a slapshot in Hull and MacInnis, and you have to watch that on the ice. Freshwater may have a few more guys up and down the lineup who'll show up in a bad mood, but Philadelphia is almost as ornery.

Star Power
Ted has Lemieux and Hull skating together and Harvey and Kelly anchoring different pairs. I have Howe and Morenz anchoring different lines and Shore and Potvin forming a pair. You could make the argument that Roy is the third best player in the series, and Hall is no slouch himself.

Weak links
Neither of our backup goalies belong in a 4-team ATD, but both are strategic choices for obvious reasons. Ted's is better but that won't mean a thing in this series unless you think Leseur will be confused by bench doors. Jack Walker is a purely defensive forward who is here to kill penalties and make 4th line shifts less interesting - he won't help the team score. Hod Stuart is a fringe choice as a 4-team ATD defenseman, but quite strong as an early choice, probably not all that close to the worst defenseman in the league, and maybe not even in this series. Aside from being very large, he's reasonably good at everything and well insulated by his twin tower partner. Cecil Dillon is probably a better overall player than Walker and well suited as an energy forward who can finish, but should not play a minute above the 4th line. Blair Russell is a suitable role player for a 00s pick, but the very definition of a scrub in this setting. Georges Boucher, like Stuart, is a fringe defenseman who does most things reasonably well. None of these players should cost their team anything in this series. Nels Stewart is Ted's weakest centre (behind Lemieux, Sakic and Trottier, nonetheless) but wouldn't score if you played him with the 4th line wingers.

 

[ted2019]

I'm glad you have the time on your hands to write this stuff out.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I'm glad you have the time on your hands to write this stuff out.

Haha, it's a rare thing. Only took 6 days of vacation through almost all of 2020 and I'm owed 19 (fiscal year is shifted to end in March, mind you). Took the whole Christmas season off because it's the only thing that stops the madness.

I hope I was fair in my assessments!

 

[ted2019]

Haha, it's a rare thing. Only took 6 days of vacation through almost all of 2020 and I'm owed 19 (fiscal year is shifted to end in March, mind you). Took the whole Christmas season off because it's the only thing that stops the madness.

I hope I was fair in my assessments!

It doesn't matter either way since I was voted 4th and have zero chance in winning.