Player Discussion 2 Canucks That Require Patience, Not a Trade

[ProstheticConscience]

Thread title should be edited to: "Two Canucks you might as well show patience with because they're really worth bugger-all in trade value".

 

[ChilliBilly]

In all honesty, I am not sure I would rather have Nylander at $6M/yr over Virtanen at $1.5M. Nylander is a skilled guy who has no physical ability and I suspect will disappear in the playoffs.

This is not intended to suggest that JV was a good pick.

 

[Javaman]

In all honesty, I am not sure I would rather have Nylander at $6M/yr over Virtanen at $1.5M. Nylander is a skilled guy who has no physical ability and I suspect will disappear in the playoffs.

This is not intended to suggest that JV was a good pick.

Nylander's PPG in the playoffs exceeds anything JV has ever done in the regular season. It's a small sample size (only 20 games) but it seems like an odd basis to critique Nylander in favour of JV.

I kinda sorta get what you are getting at with the cap hit comparison, but Nylander at $6M would only be an issue for the Canucks because Benning has so badly bungled the salary structure.

Here's another thought... if Benning had drafted Nylander and Tkachuk instead of JV and OJ, maybe Benning doesn't feel the need to sign a high priced UFA like Eriksson in the summer of 2016.

 

[Phenomenon13]

Would alex nylander qualify as not having enough patience or selling high? I think buffalo won that trade by a mile.

 

[CanaFan]

Would alex nylander qualify as not having enough patience or selling high? I think buffalo won that trade by a mile.

Ya, if you can trade a 21 y/o winger for a 19 (almost 20) y/o defenseman who has played more NHL games already, that’s usually gonna be a win.

First they pass on Byram for Dach, now throw Jokiharju away for Alex Nylander ... yikes, that’s a pretty bad looking off season so far. Not crazy about the Gustaffsson + Forsling for De Haan deal either.

 

[MS]

Ya, if you can trade a 21 y/o winger for a 19 (almost 20) y/o defenseman who has played more NHL games already, that’s usually gonna be a win.

First they pass on Byram for Dach, now throw Jokiharju away for Alex Nylander ... yikes, that’s a pretty bad looking off season so far. Not crazy about the Gustaffsson + Forsling for De Haan deal either.

The move I liked least was Kahun - who scored 35 ES points as a rookie - for the complete pylon Olli Maatta. But yeah, super weird offseason for them.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

The move I liked least was Kahun - who scored 35 ES points as a rookie - for the complete pylon Olli Maatta. But yeah, super weird offseason for them.

The moves Bowman made to get Chicago out of cap hell in the last year or so (not to mention adding Strome) were so impressive. It's nuts that it's all been done to add Maatta, de Haan, and Shaw.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I think the heat on Virtanen will turn up if Ritchie establishes himself as a top6 player this year. Then, Virtanen will be viewed as the laggard of that sub-class of 4 wingers. Going to be interesting.

In turn, Ritchie might enter the conversation being had about Ehlers/Nylander.

 

[Derp Kassian]

With Virtanen he's useful enough to be an effective 3rd-4th liner now and his price will stay cheap so why not keep him? ... Olli is completely behind in his development and has had catastrophic surgeries that might kill his career now. I also think back to draft day when even guys like Button were saying "Why not take Sergachev if you're going D, he has more upside." I think being on stacked teams had him looking way better than he ever was. Everyone around him from those Knights teams is somehow making an impact near the NHL, in his D+1 he's eclipsed by Bouchard and Mete and they are better assets now.

 

[Pavel96]

With Virtanen he's useful enough to be an effective 3rd-4th liner now and his price will stay cheap so why not keep him? ... Olli is completely behind in his development and has had catastrophic surgeries that might kill his career now. I also think back to draft day when even guys like Button were saying "Why not take Sergachev if you're going D, he has more upside." I think being on stacked teams had him looking way better than he ever was. Everyone around him from those Knights teams is somehow making an impact near the NHL, in his D+1 he's eclipsed by Bouchard and Mete and they are better assets now.

4th round Victor Mete outplayed Olli, on the same junior team, in their d1.

4th round Victor Mete will qualify for an NHL pension before Olli (the self proclaimed top dman in that draft) plays his first NHL game.

 

[Fatass]

4th round Victor Mete outplayed Olli, on the same junior team, in their d1.

4th round Victor Mete will qualify for an NHL pension before Olli (the self proclaimed top dman in that draft) plays his first NHL game.

I can’t temember anyone wanting us to draft Juiolevi. I though for sure we take Tkatchuk. If not him, then Sergachev. Big swing and a miss by JB. Just can’t have those misses and expect to be a good team.

 

[Pavel96]

I can’t temember anyone wanting us to draft Juiolevi. I though for sure we take Tkatchuk. If not him, then Sergachev. Big swing and a miss by JB. Just can’t have those misses and expect to be a good team.

I remember listening to team 1040 after the draft. They had a London announcer on talking about Olli. I remember him actually saying that the London people he was watching the draft with all couldn't believe that Tkachuk was not the first Knight taken.

It was too easy to pass up a goal scoring, in your face kind of guy to your divisional rival - had to do it by picking a player from the very same junior team.

 

[Fatass]

I remember listening to team 1040 after the draft. They had a London announcer on talking about Olli. I remember him actually saying that the London people he was watching the draft with all couldn't believe that Tkachuk was not the first Knight taken.

It was too easy to pass up a goal scoring, in your face kind of guy to your divisional rival - had to do it by picking a player from the very same junior team.

JB picked a muffin in OJ.

 

[Hoglander]

You can tell when DimJim overrides to make the pick, it's sad.

Virtanen, Juolevi, Kole - how is he still there?- Lind, Pettit, Abols, Stewart...

If it wasn't for Brackett, we'd have Horvat, and that's it. One of the worst drafters around.

 

[Derp Kassian]

You can tell when DimJim overrides to make the pick, it's sad.

Virtanen, Juolevi, Kole - how is he still there?- Lind, Pettit, Abols, Stewart...

If it wasn't for Brackett, we'd have Horvat, and that's it. One of the worst drafters around.

Who did he override for Lind? Cant remember who Canucks wanted but I remember wanted Hague badly

 

[Siludin]

There's a chance someone pays full value for Jake at the deadline - maybe a comparable project as to muddle the efforts of any bean counters adding the Pluses and Minuses to the Great Jim Benning Trade Scoresheet.

I don't think anyone is paying full value for Juolevi as a centrepiece. I could see Benning moving Juolevi in a package if he feels he is getting a guaranteed roster player back.

I hope they aren't moved though. I am a pretty patient fan.
I forget lots of fans are like 65+ and don't have time to wait around for players they are already sour on to develop.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Virtanen is big, blazing fast, and has a great shot. The guy looks like he’s tailor made for the playoffs. He’s progressing nicely and has vastly improved his defensive game, trusted by the coach to close out games in the final minutes now. His offensive game is decent; I expect him to become a consistent 20 goal scorer.

Juolevi - haven’t seen him play enough to make an informed opinion, hope he can progress and stay injury free.

 

[Canucks1096]

I think people need to stop living in the fantasy that Virtanen will become some top 6 F. I noticed a lot of Bertuzzi and Neely compairson are gone. I didn't hear those names for a long time when talking about Virtanen.

Yes, Virtanen has made progress in his defensive game and decision making. It's solid but won't call it elite or very good

Last 4 years ( non PPP AND ENP )

2016, 13 P in 55 games
2017 AHL
2018 19 P in 75 games
2019 19 P in 72 games.

Per 82 game schedule

2016, 19 P
2018 20 P
2019 21 P

Within 4 years, No Progress at all in his offence. Considering the fact he got more ice time and better linemates. You get make an argument he got worst offensively

 

[Interior Cascadian]

Virtanen and Juolevi… at least until we see what a full season of Juolevi looks like, for the sake of an accurate baseline.

 

[timw33]

Virtanen is big, blazing fast, and has a great shot. The guy looks like he’s tailor made for the playoffs. He’s progressing nicely and has vastly improved his defensive game, trusted by the coach to close out games in the final minutes now. His offensive game is decent; I expect him to become a consistent 20 goal scorer.

Juolevi - haven’t seen him play enough to make an informed opinion, hope he can progress and stay injury free.

The problem is he's never domination if the playoffs in CHL/AHL. Just don't get why everyone assumes that he'll automatically be a perfect playoff player when he's shown that he can often just stop working or will make extremely poor decisions.