GDT: 2/12/18 - 7:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Toronto

TeslaCoilFan

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Mar 17, 2017
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I come in peace. Sure felt like playoff hockey and wanted to say Yanni Gourde stood out for me this game, he’s good.

It definitely had a playoff feel and yes, Yanni Gourde has been amazing for us all season! He's like a tireless bulldog running on Energizer Bunny batteries. lol Congrats on the win.
 
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Bolt 45

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Oct 19, 2015
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Garbage effort. Toronto wanted this one. We were the better team by a healthy margin, particularly given our effort. The puck was just going in for Toronto tonight.

Coburn is too old and too slow. Kunitz is starting to look tired as well. Paquette's been playing well, but we needed Peca's speed in the lineup... which should have been obvious waaay before the game started.
 

AndreRoy

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Jan 3, 2018
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Garbage effort. Toronto wanted this one. We were the better team by a healthy margin, particularly given our effort. The puck was just going in for Toronto tonight.

Coburn is too old and too slow. Kunitz is starting to look tired as well. Paquette's been playing well, but we needed Peca's speed in the lineup... which should have been obvious waaay before the game started.

Cooper just hates young players. Peca, Erne, and Koekkoek should all have regular spots in the lineup and the likes of Coburn, Sustr, Paquette, hell even Vladdy and (if not for his NTC) Killorn should be out the door - if not now then certainly this summer. We’ve got a great core but the supporting cast needs to be refreshed.
 
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2020 Cup Champions

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Cooper just hates young players. Peca, Erne, and Koekkoek should all have regular spots in the lineup and the likes of Coburn, Sustr, Paquette, hell even Vladdy and (if not for his NTC) Killorn should be out the door - if not now then certainly this summer. We’ve got a great core but the supporting cast needs to be refreshed.
I don't think we can trade Killorn until next offseason.
 

Bolt 45

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Oct 19, 2015
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Cooper just hates young players. Peca, Erne, and Koekkoek should all have regular spots in the lineup and the likes of Coburn, Sustr, Paquette, hell even Vladdy and (if not for his NTC) Killorn should be out the door - if not now then certainly this summer. We’ve got a great core but the supporting cast needs to be refreshed.
It sure feels like it. I mean, people are quick to disagree, but I'm half-convinced that Coop secretly dislikes Peca as a person. Look, I get it, Paquette's hot right now, but his speed was never going to be enough. It's not like Toronto's a heavy team. Peca's fast and wins faceoffs... should have been a no-brainer. I'm not sold on Sustr's recent play either. We probably could have benefitted from having Koekoek's footspeed and shot in the lineup tonight.

And, yeah, you're right about Vladdy. I've been impressed with his play this year, but he looked like the Names of old for most of his shifts tonight.
 

FinnLightning26

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It sure feels like it. I mean, people are quick to disagree, but I'm half-convinced that Coop secretly dislikes Peca as a person. Look, I get it, Paquette's hot right now, but his speed was never going to be enough. It's not like Toronto's a heavy team. Peca's fast and wins faceoffs... should have been a no-brainer. I'm not sold on Sustr's recent play either. We probably could have benefitted from having Koekoek's footspeed and shot in the lineup tonight.

And, yeah, you're right about Vladdy. I've been impressed with his play this year, but he looked like the Names of old for most of his shifts tonight.

Agree on the bolded. I understand playing Paquette against a team like the Kings but you need offense against the Leafs. Paquette offers that once in a blue moon.
 

HoseEmDown

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We held them to 23 shots, we didn't get the goaltending we needed to tonight. This wasn't on Killorn, Namestnikov, Coburn, Sustr or Paquette it was on Vasilevskiy who had a sub par game especially after how well he did against the Kings.

I don't see Cooper benching Coburn for Koekkoek even though he deserves another look while Coburn could use a day off. As for Paquette he's played ok, I just think he works better with Kunitz and Callahan. Peca speed is not suited for those two and I don't think it'll work as well. Him with Killorn and Gourde would be better.
 

AndreRoy

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I don't think we can trade Killorn until next offseason.

It’s actually a few offseasons from now. Unfortunately we’re stuck with him. And I know he’s been hot lately but he’ll disappear again before too long like he always does.
 
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AndreRoy

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I was thinking bigger picture in calling those guys out, not just about tonight. Coburn was a good acquisition at the time but he’s on the downslope of his career and needs to go. Sustr has always been a dumpster fire and will always be a dumpster fire. Paquette is injured half the time and while it’s hard to criticize someone who hasn’t been the same since he sacrificed his body for your team he simply isn’t what he was when he first came up and was shutting down the Blackhawks’ top line; it’s time to get some new blood out there and we’ve got plenty of guys from which to choose. Vladdy is tough for me since I’ve always found him to be underrated by our fanbase, he does do a number of things quite well, and he was looking like he might have finally taken the next step at the start of this season, but he’s simply a nonfactor offensively apart from Kuch and Stammer and with a number of difficult decisions coming up he’s not someone we should be investing a lot of cap and term into; we should trade him and get what we can for him. We’re stuck with Killorn for a few years (unless we can convince him to waive) but he really needs to give us more to justify that contract - the idea that he had to watch tape of himself to go “oh, I should be crashing the net” is embarrassing.
 

HoseEmDown

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Who are we replacing all these players with? Masin is getting close to being ready but could use more time and he tends to be a slow starter in a new league so his rookie year won't be smooth sailing. Cernak has looked good this year but the step up is big, he could probably fill in but isn't going to make that big an impact yet where you'd notice .uch of a difference yet. Peca has looked good when with skilled players, don't think he'd be the same with the grinders. When Kunitz leaves he would probably be better with an Erne, Conacher on his wing and Callahan having to adjust. We have nobody to take over for Namestnikov, not yet at least. He may not be a big scorer away from talent but the guy has some of the best shot suppression and differential numbers. He does a lot of the little things well, would be better if he could produce more on his own or drive a line but I'd keep him unless he wants too much or we can flip him for a nice return.

The kids are playing really well and developing good, there's just nobody down there that deserves a shot yet. Someone could have a monster playoffs or camp to change things but until then this is the roster barring some trades. I don't see more than an injury call up or late season cup of coffee for too many next year.
 

MattM92

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I actually thought Vasilevskiy had a pretty strong game. Would've been down by a few after 1 if it wasn't for him. Only one I think he should've saved is the 3rd one. When you get that much of it, you should stop it. Regardless, he gave us a chance to win and the effort wasn't there. We scored those 2 big goals in like 18 seconds to tie the game and then let Toronto roll us. Should have been the other way around, but we let Toronto off the ropes.
 

HoseEmDown

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I actually thought Vasilevskiy had a pretty strong game. Would've been down by a few after 1 if it wasn't for him. Only one I think he should've saved is the 3rd one. When you get that much of it, you should stop it. Regardless, he gave us a chance to win and the effort wasn't there. We scored those 2 big goals in like 18 seconds to tie the game and then let Toronto roll us. Should have been the other way around, but we let Toronto off the ropes.

Thought he should've had the last one and the 2nd one was a bit questionable, didn't think he had the angle right.
 

MattM92

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Thought he should've had the last one and the 2nd one was a bit questionable, didn't think he had the angle right.

2nd one was a perfect shot on a breakaway. Angle might have been a bit off, but that was a laser to the top left corner. Sometimes a goal is a goal. And the last one was kinda weird. Vasy made the save and then accidentally toed it in. Kinda flukey. I still think the 3rd is the only one he definitely would want back.
 

HoseEmDown

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2nd one was a perfect shot on a breakaway. Angle might have been a bit off, but that was a laser to the top left corner. Sometimes a goal is a goal. And the last one was kinda weird. Vasy made the save and then accidentally toed it in. Kinda flukey. I still think the 3rd is the only one he definitely would want back.

It was a partial break, Coburn was right there forcing him a bit to where he would've had a hard time trying to make a move he had to shoot. The shot went over the blocked not an upper 90 snipe, good shot but better angle he gets that. The last one was a bit flukey but we just battled back, can't have that go in.
 

Sky04

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Vladdy is tough for me since I’ve always found him to be underrated by our fanbase, he does do a number of things quite well, and he was looking like he might have finally taken the next step at the start of this season, but he’s simply a nonfactor offensively apart from Kuch and Stammer and with a number of difficult decisions coming up he’s not someone we should be investing a lot of cap and term into; we should trade him and get what we can for him. We’re stuck with Killorn for a few years (unless we can convince him to waive) but he really needs to give us more to justify that contract - the idea that he had to watch tape of himself to go “oh, I should be crashing the net” is embarrassing.

Weird time to be criticizing Killorn, 5 goals, 9 points in the past 6 games, 34 on the year on pace for 50. How is that not worth his contract? You aren't getting a 60 point player for 4.45m.

He's going to make 4.45m for the next 5 years with going on 6 years of .5PPG production - his value is not in question, as a fit I think we could use a different player but he's certainly not overpaid for what he does unless you think everyone should be on 2m bargain deals.
 
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AndreRoy

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Who are we replacing all these players with? Masin is getting close to being ready but could use more time and he tends to be a slow starter in a new league so his rookie year won't be smooth sailing. Cernak has looked good this year but the step up is big, he could probably fill in but isn't going to make that big an impact yet where you'd notice .uch of a difference yet. Peca has looked good when with skilled players, don't think he'd be the same with the grinders. When Kunitz leaves he would probably be better with an Erne, Conacher on his wing and Callahan having to adjust. We have nobody to take over for Namestnikov, not yet at least. He may not be a big scorer away from talent but the guy has some of the best shot suppression and differential numbers. He does a lot of the little things well, would be better if he could produce more on his own or drive a line but I'd keep him unless he wants too much or we can flip him for a nice return.

The kids are playing really well and developing good, there's just nobody down there that deserves a shot yet. Someone could have a monster playoffs or camp to change things but until then this is the roster barring some trades. I don't see more than an injury call up or late season cup of coffee for too many next year.

Sustr won’t be resigned this offseason and we’re currently carrying 8D so unless we want to do that again he won’t need a direct replacement. Frankly I’m tempted to say we should waive him now just so Cooper can’t play him, but I suppose until we bring in another defenseman we need him to cover for injuries.

Coburn’s a bit more tricky: Koekkoek is already outperforming him at even strength but I don’t think we want to give Slater the responsibility of the penalty kill at this point. So unless we bring in a top four LHD like McD or Hammer we should look to acquire a decent 3LD defensive/PK specialist as a replacement. Basically a lefty Girardi-type would do just fine, and would allow us to run seven defensemen to give Koekkoek some even strength minutes on a consistent basis without having to throw him into the deep end right away. If we did it now we could waive Sustr and keep Coburn on as our 8D for the rest of the season as an injury replacement for either side, then move him in the summer.

Paquette should probably finish out this season but after that it’s time to try somebody new, whether it’s Peca, another prospect, or an outside acquisition. Peca has indeed looked good with the skilled players and a third line of Killorn-Peca-Gourde would be pretty nice if we don’t want to use Gourde in our top six, but I could also see us bringing in a 3C and running that fourth line of Erne-Peca-Callahan you mentioned. If Erne and Peca keep up their current level of play that line could be annoying as hell to play against while also chipping in a good deal more offense than Kunitz and Paquette are currently giving us. Or maybe we keep Peca on the third line and simply look for an upgrade on Paquette for the fourth. We can keep Paquette on the roster as an injury replacement next season (I’d rather have him serving popcorn than a young guy whose development would be stunted by doing so); I just don’t want him starting.

Regarding Vladdy I agree that he contributes in a number of areas besides offensive production and his ability to play all three forward spots makes him a useful utility player. But he’s not the sort of guy we want to give a lot of money or term to going forward. So I’m fine with keeping him as long as we can do so cheaply and as long as we don’t have anybody better to replace him with, but at the same time we should look to see what we can get for him.
 

HoseEmDown

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Sustr won’t be resigned this offseason and we’re currently carrying 8D so unless we want to do that again he won’t need a direct replacement. Frankly I’m tempted to say we should waive him now just so Cooper can’t play him, but I suppose until we bring in another defenseman we need him to cover for injuries.

Coburn’s a bit more tricky: Koekkoek is already outperforming him at even strength but I don’t think we want to give Slater the responsibility of the penalty kill at this point. So unless we bring in a top four LHD like McD or Hammer we should look to acquire a decent 3LD defensive/PK specialist as a replacement. Basically a lefty Girardi-type would do just fine, and would allow us to run seven defensemen to give Koekkoek some even strength minutes on a consistent basis without having to throw him into the deep end right away. If we did it now we could waive Sustr and keep Coburn on as our 8D for the rest of the season as an injury replacement for either side, then move him in the summer.

Paquette should probably finish out this season but after that it’s time to try somebody new, whether it’s Peca, another prospect, or an outside acquisition. Peca has indeed looked good with the skilled players and a third line of Killorn-Peca-Gourde would be pretty nice if we don’t want to use Gourde in our top six, but I could also see us bringing in a 3C and running that fourth line of Erne-Peca-Callahan you mentioned. If Erne and Peca keep up their current level of play that line could be annoying as hell to play against while also chipping in a good deal more offense than Kunitz and Paquette are currently giving us. Or maybe we keep Peca on the third line and simply look for an upgrade on Paquette for the fourth. We can keep Paquette on the roster as an injury replacement next season (I’d rather have him serving popcorn than a young guy whose development would be stunted by doing so); I just don’t want him starting.

Regarding Vladdy I agree that he contributes in a number of areas besides offensive production and his ability to play all three forward spots makes him a useful utility player. But he’s not the sort of guy we want to give a lot of money or term to going forward. So I’m fine with keeping him as long as we can do so cheaply and as long as we don’t have anybody better to replace him with, but at the same time we should look to see what we can get for him.

We aren't waiving Sustr and making Coburn the 8th defender. I would love to get Koekkoek in full time but again that's not happening and with the forwards doing well not sure we go 7 D much especially when Palat comes back. We bring in a defender one of Koekkoek, Sustr and Dotchin are going out and the others won't see much ice anymore this year.

Why would we bench Kunitz in favor of Callahan? Kunitz is playing and producing much better. I don't see Erne sticking all year if he's not traded, he's doing ok now but nothing that says he needs to be on the team full time. He could help Syracuse the rest of this year and hopefully increase his value for trade or be a viable 3rd line option next year. Having him up just to be on the 4th line doesn't make sense when we should trade him while he has value.
 

DFC

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Weird time to be criticizing Killorn, 5 goals, 9 points in the past 6 games, 34 on the year on pace for 50. How is that not worth his contract? You aren't getting a 60 point player for 4.45m.

He's going to make 4.45m for the next 5 years with going on 6 years of .5PPG production - his value is not in question, as a fit I think we could use a different player but he's certainly not overpaid for what he does unless you think everyone should be on 2m bargain deals.

If he shows up again in the playoffs, as is his history, we might want to reconsider how badly we "need" to move the contract anyway.

Killorn can disappear for frustratingly long periods of time, but the guy definitely has a knack for showing up when it counts. I think it gets hard to remember sometimes, especially when it's been a while since we've played a big game.
 

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