2 #1 Franchise 80 point centers vs 2 #1 Norris D

[Rants Mulliniks]

I think this is difficut to say without actually having names. You could have an elite, 80-point two-way C or you could have an 80-point one-dimensional C.

Matthews/Tavares v. Burns/Karlsson is a lot different from Crosby/Malkin v. Burns/Karlsson.

True. I am not a fan at all of Norris voting as I feel it is far too heavily skewed to offense instead of defense and in answering this question, I am thinking of two overall dominant d-men, which might not be the case if you just say "Norris winners".

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Crosby and Malkin vs. Neidermayer and Pronger.

Assuming you're talking about prime, that's more like two 100 point centers vs two norris caliber dmen. In that case i take the centers. But i'd take two Norris dmen over two 80 point centers.

 

[bucks_oil]

Crosby and Malkin vs. Neidermayer and Pronger.

This is stacked for the centers given they were both 100point, not 80 point.... but even then it is close.

Pronger and Neidermeyer were on the ice for 60 mins a game. At that point (which was the top of their careers) Ana was almost unbeatable, even with a couple of 60 - 70 point Cs.

I think I'd have to go with the D's

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

This is stacked for the centers given they were both 100point, not 80 point.... but even then it is close.

Pronger and Neidermeyer were on the ice for 60 mins a game. At that point (which was the top of their careers) Ana was almost unbeatable, even with a couple of 60 - 70 point Cs.

I think I'd have to go with the D's

Yup. I take the D with those names.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Depends on the Centers, if it is low end #1's like Tavares and Matthews then the Dmen for sure, but Matthews not 80 point center.
How recently did the Dmen win award as well?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah not sure what the point in trying to pretend OP meant anybody else

Why is it best D in the league, but not Centres? If you're just comparing positions or whatever it is this is

Yeah, it's kind of weird not to just list the names. It's especially obvious given the past two months and which elite players changed teams (ie. Tavares and Karlsson).

 

[tmg]

Drop the 80-point part, and this is a landslide for the centers. I mean, how many cups to the Pens have with Crosby and Malkin, and how many has Nashville gotten with any of Weber/Suter/Subban/Josi/Jones?

Crosby-Malkin Pens have exactly as many cups as Niedermayer-Stevens Devils.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Crosby+Malkin>Karlsson+Burns>Matthews+Tavares

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Crosby-Malkin Pens have exactly as many cups as Niedermayer-Stevens Devils.

So far. They're 31 and 32 still. Niedermayer-Stevens didn't win their first cup until Stevens was 31. Pronger-Macinnis never won a cup. Pronger-Niedermayer won 1.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't even know if I'd consider an 80 point center a "franchise center". Not if that's his absolute peak he reaches.

 

[bucks_oil]

Crosby-Malkin Pens have exactly as many cups as Niedermayer-Stevens Devils.

Moreover, Pronger was a much better defender than Stevens. They'd have won several more together had they been together during their prime.

 

[blinkman360]

You should have made this poll a third time during that hour. Really blew it.

 

[ole ole]

[I don't know if it's nostalgia or what but jeesus is he overrated.

The Jonathan Toews of D

Also you can be really really good while still being overrated.

Neid was much better than really good.We know how great Neids was.

 

[Agent Zub]

Neid was much better than really good.We know how great Neids was.

Yea man I never said Neids was a bad player.

HesH just not in the company of Crosby, Malkin and Pronger who at their peak were the undisputable best players in hockey.

It's not saying he's bad that belongs on a tier below them. Just being realistic.

 

[HenrikW]

This isn't a good question. In a vacuum 2 Norris defensemen would probably be better but there's plenty of examples of teams that would take the Centers instead. Montreal, Carolina, Calgary, Predators to name a few.

Montreal is a good example. I dont think it would make much of a difference if they had Burns/Karlsson. I think they could be a legit contender if they had 2 legit centers, like Tavares/Matthews as suggested.

 

[tmlfan98]

Both combos have won cups, but the centre combos have been winning more recently (Crosby/Malkin, Kuznetsov/Backstrom).

 

[biturbo19]

I think Pittsburgh's sustained success is enough for me to opt for the pair of franchise centers. Two Norris caliber defencemen kinda makes me think of the Ducks winning the cup with Niedermayer and Pronger, but even then...they had to have that #1 Center and some other very high-end scoring talent to get there. Whereas the Penguins have shown that you can contend year after year without a Norris caliber defenceman.

 

[ottawa]

Yea a great player and HoF defenceman who won a lot of cups and played with team Canada. Never the best hockey player on the planet.

You have to be trolling lol

Malkin and Pronger were the best players in the world for what? a handful of months max?

At the end of the day, Niedermayer is a HoF and one of the best at his position just like Pronger and Malkin.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Centers. Almost every team that’s won the cup in like the last 20 years has had elite center depth. That just seems to be the trend with cup winners.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I think Pittsburgh's sustained success is enough for me to opt for the pair of franchise centers. Two Norris caliber defencemen kinda makes me think of the Ducks winning the cup with Niedermayer and Pronger, but even then...they had to have that #1 Center and some other very high-end scoring talent to get there. Whereas the Penguins have shown that you can contend year after year without a Norris caliber defenceman.

They had a #1 in Getzlaf and a damn good top 6 guy in Macdonald and a crazy good shutdown guy in Pahlsson. So as important as having a good D is I still think the key is elite C depth.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

They had a #1 in Getzlaf and a damn good top 6 guy in Macdonald and a crazy good shutdown guy in Pahlsson. So as important as having a good D is I still think the key is elite C depth.

Getzlaf wasn't a 1C at that point yet.

 

[BAM]

I don't even know if I'd consider an 80 point center a "franchise center". Not if that's his absolute peak he reaches.

So Seguin, Scheifele, Kopitar (never hit 90 before this season, previous high was 81 and only done once), Bergeron, Barkov are all not franchise centers in this point in time?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So Seguin, Scheifele, Kopitar (never hit 90 before this season, previous high was 81 and only done once), Bergeron, Barkov are all not franchise centers in this point in time?

Seguin, Scheifele, and Kopitar have all surpassed 80 points as a peak. Barkov's young and we haven't seen yet what he can do at his peak.

The only one on your list that hasn't is Bergeron, but one could argue his defense offsets the fact he's not better than an 80 point guy.

Plus, I have a stricter definition of "franchise center". IMO, there's a difference between an elite one and a franchise one. I wouldn't even count a guy like Seguin as a franchise center. If he is, then he barely qualifies as I'm not sure he's the type of guy you can build a franchise around.

 

[BAM]

Seguin, Scheifele, and Kopitar have all surpassed 80 points as a peak. Barkov's young and we haven't seen yet what he can do at his peak.

The only one on your list that hasn't is Bergeron, but one could argue his defense offsets the fact he's not better than an 80 point guy.

Plus, I have a stricter definition of "franchise center". IMO, there's a difference between an elite one and a franchise one. I wouldn't even count a guy like Seguin as a franchise center. If he is, then he barely qualifies as I'm not sure he's the type of guy you can build a franchise around.

Do you consider Tavares a franchise center? And I don't consider Seguin one either but you don't need a franchise center to win a cup.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Do you consider Tavares a franchise center? And I don't consider Seguin one either but you don't need a franchise center to win a cup.

Tavares is borderline. He's surpassed 80 points at his peak, so he at least meets that qualification. But, like Seguin and Scheifele, only barely surpassed that threshold.

IMO, I just like to think of franchise centers as being players you can build a championship around. Or if they're unfortunate to play for a mediocre team their most of their career (ie. a Dionne, a Lindros, McDavid if the Oilers never improve), then be dominant among their peers (ie. top 5 player in the league) on an individual level for multiple years.