Line Combos: 1st vs. 2nd line - time to split up Ehlers - Little - Laine? Mod Warning Post #552

[YWGinYYZ]

To try to separate the CSW vs. ELL / 1st line versus 2nd line discussion from the overall Laine discussion, here's a dedicated thread for continuing the contemplation about splitting up ELL.

Click to read more...

 

[grieves]

Good call, OP. I'll link some stuff that I think is relevant for easy access:

View media item 745
View media item 743
Legend:

GP = Games Played
TOI = Time On Ice

CF = Corsi For
CA = Corsi Against
C+/- = Corsi plus-minus
CF% = Corsi For percentage
Rel CF% = Relative Corsi For percentage

GF = Goals For
GA = Goals Against
G+/- = Goals Plus-minus
GF% = Goals For percentage
Rel GF% = Relative Goals For percentage

xGF = Expected goals for
xGA = Expected goals against
xG+/- = Expected goals plus-minus
xGF% = Expected goals percentage

PENT = Penalties taken
PEND = Penalties drawn

 

[grieves]

This is from Narow, sometime at the end of last season:

"Here ill just divide their points by their time so we get points per minute and multiply by 60 to get points per hour which will allow us to ger a more accurate picture of how well they do with vs without eachother.

Scheifele w/ laine 3.462
Scheifele w/o laine 1.766

Scheifele w/ ehlers 2.673
Scheifele w/o ehlers 2.369

Ehlers w/ laine 2.711
Ehlers w/o laine 1.865

Ehlers w/ scheifele 2.673 (yep same points as S)
Ehlers w/o Scheifele 1.794

Laine w/ scheifele 3.015
Laine w/o scheifele 1.459 (yeah, lets not split them up)

Laine w/ ehlers 2.829
Laine w/o ehlers 1.723

So pretty clear those 3 should have been kept together...

Laine w/ perrault 2.552
Laine w/o perrault 2.162

Laine w/ little 1.780
Laine w/o little 2.507"

 

[Festinator]

This is from Narow, sometime at the end of last season:

"Here ill just divide their points by their time so we get points per minute and multiply by 60 to get points per hour which will allow us to ger a more accurate picture of how well they do with vs without eachother.

Scheifele w/ laine 3.462
Scheifele w/o laine 1.766

Scheifele w/ ehlers 2.673
Scheifele w/o ehlers 2.369

Ehlers w/ laine 2.711
Ehlers w/o laine 1.865

Ehlers w/ scheifele 2.673 (yep same points as S)
Ehlers w/o Scheifele 1.794

Laine w/ scheifele 3.015
Laine w/o scheifele 1.459 (yeah, lets not split them up)

Laine w/ ehlers 2.829
Laine w/o ehlers 1.723

So pretty clear those 3 should have been kept together...

Laine w/ perrault 2.552
Laine w/o perrault 2.162

Laine w/ little 1.780
Laine w/o little 2.507"

Would be nice to have the stats from this season, including Wheeler, Little, Perreault and Connor, if anyone can find that. Scheifele with Wheeler would be interesting, also Perreault with Little.

ESL definitely worked, but I think CSW would have very similar numbers.

 

[Psych0dad]

This is from Narow, sometime at the end of last season:

"Here ill just divide their points by their time so we get points per minute and multiply by 60 to get points per hour which will allow us to ger a more accurate picture of how well they do with vs without eachother.

Scheifele w/ laine 3.462
Scheifele w/o laine 1.766

Scheifele w/ ehlers 2.673
Scheifele w/o ehlers 2.369

Ehlers w/ laine 2.711
Ehlers w/o laine 1.865

Ehlers w/ scheifele 2.673 (yep same points as S)
Ehlers w/o Scheifele 1.794

Laine w/ scheifele 3.015
Laine w/o scheifele 1.459 (yeah, lets not split them up)

Laine w/ ehlers 2.829
Laine w/o ehlers 1.723

So pretty clear those 3 should have been kept together...

Laine w/ perrault 2.552
Laine w/o perrault 2.162

Laine w/ little 1.780
Laine w/o little 2.507"

Yeah it's an obvious one. Hard to understand why it's not more widely understood here.

 

[Halberdier]

Yeah, enough with polluting every thread with silly controversy.
I'd like to see Frolik-Stempniak-Laine.

I am open for testing ANY other combination other than ELL, including Mason-Chiarot-Laine.

ELL has been a complete disaster offensively. Short stints with CLL and PLL were so much better in comparison to ELL.

LSW would be ideal, since I don't like the idea separating red hot Scheifele and Wheeler even though it's proven success recipe to combine Little with Wheeler.

If the 1st line cannot be messed up in any way, give us PLL. That leaves Ehlers in quite odd place though.

Can Perreault be cloned in any way?

 

[Rene Saari]

With the performances in last games, I would put up our 1st line like this:

Laine-Scheifele-Armia

And other lines I would try with:
LW - Little - Wheeler
Connor - C - Ehlers

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

This team is hanging on Scheifeles back, I mean this guy is a clear cut Franchise Centerman and he makes everyone he plays with better. That being said I have to admit Little is no longer what he was(or he is just injured by a huge lack of chemistry and bad line combos), I’d say he looks no better than average at a 2C(or maybe I’m blinded and to spoiled to realize just because of his recent dip in his game).

Like I said many times over I’m fine with Scheifele divided from Laine but atleast give Laine someone dynamic in the middle to work with... I would love to see Roslovic(yeah, yeah I know he’s a Winger right now just to keep options open for him but we direly need a 2C).

I mean most Elite Singers are usually better than they’re Centers but when your working with someone who doesn’t fit your Elite Wingers game it’s a waste of talent.

I’d love nothing more than to see a Lineup like this.

Ehlers Scheifele Laine

Connor Roslovic Wheeler

Perrault Little Armia

Tanev Lowry Copp

 

[grieves]

Would be nice to have the stats from this season, including Wheeler, Little, Perreault and Connor, if anyone can find that. Scheifele with Wheeler would be interesting, also Perreault with Little.

ESL definitely worked, but I think CSW would have very similar numbers.

It's pretty doubtful that CSW could reach ESL-levels of production, at least judging from last season, unless Connor is the difference maker that doubles the production of that line. They are semi-hot right now offensively, but have some issues defensively. The sample size is too small and the sh% seems pretty high to say anything conclusive.

ESW played almost the same amount of time that ESL did. ESL bagged 23 goals during that time, ESW bagged 9 (let's say 10 because they played slightly less). ESL was only slightly worse defensively. That being said, ESW did have better Corsi, but we need to keep in mind that any Corsi For event for Laine and Scheifele is pure gold because of their super-human ability to capitalize on their scoring chances.

And it seems Corsi events against are not so dangerous anymore because we have solid goaltending.

In my mind there is no reason whatsoever not to play ESL, or a variant of that. That being said, people brought up a good point about the timing. Perhaps the time for that is not right now on the eve of a road trip, but I'm not familiar with how much that could mess with the team.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

At this point, at the first loss, I'd swap wingers somewhere.

I think Wheeler and Little can find some chemistry together. Laine and Little don't seem to be meshing. I'd almost consider a centre swap.

Laine-Scheif-Ehlers
Connor-Little-Wheeler

Not sure if that would work or not. The goal needs to be to unlock Little, and it seems like that's coming naturally, I've seen some good stuff from him over the past few games.

I'm actually loving Matty P on the fourth line. It causes so much matchup problems and lets them play way more minutes than Mau usually gives the fourth. As long as they're producing like they have been, I'm actually in favour of keeping the bottom six the way it is.

 

[PhilJets]

At this point, at the first loss, I'd swap wingers somewhere.

I think Wheeler and Little can find some chemistry together. Laine and Little don't seem to be meshing. I'd almost consider a centre swap.

Laine-Scheif-Ehlers
Connor-Little-Wheeler

Not sure if that would work or not. The goal needs to be to unlock Little, and it seems like that's coming naturally, I've seen some good stuff from him over the past few games.

I'm actually loving Matty P on the fourth line. It causes so much matchup problems and lets them play way more minutes than Mau usually gives the fourth. As long as they're producing like they have been, I'm actually in favour of keeping the bottom six the way it is.

 

[Lowered Expectations]

Let's all remember that ELL was never meant to be, and was stitched together as act of desperation. This is how it went:
MP got injured, and Connor was called up to replace him, to play with Little and Laine. That lasted about half of his first game (against CBJ) when 1st line of ESW took at least -3 and Maurice switched Connor and Ehlers.

ELL is accident, ugly bastard child. It had it's first real 5on5 goal in last game, so MAYBE there still some hope. If They ignite on road trip, fine. If not, it is time to put this bastard abomination of a line out of misery.

 

[larmex99]

With the performances in last games, I would put up our 1st line like this:

Laine-Scheifele-Armia

And other lines I would try with:
LW - Little - Wheeler
Connor - C - Ehlers

And this is why fans will never coach in the NHL. Let's break up the lines while we are on a win streak so we can try some neat stuff. The solid play will not last forever but until then let's just enjoy the ride.

 

[King Woodballs]

Just draft another Scheifele. That will solve all the worlds problems!

 

[grieves]

And this is why fans will never coach in the NHL. Let's break up the lines while we are on a win streak so we can try some neat stuff. The solid play will not last forever but until then let's just enjoy the ride.

The experimentation should have been done during the garbage time of last season, but for some reason we went full steam ahead.

 

[Maukkis]

As long as this team keeps winning games, you will continue to be disappointed if you wish for CSW to be broken up.

 

[Duke749]

I’d perhaps swap Laine and Connor but that’s it. Think Connor and Little could click.

I think part of the reason Mo hasn’t split up ELL is because he wants to make sure that top line can match up to anyone in the league and I’m not sure he think putting Laine or Ehlers there would be ideal. But we’ve seen him hard match with Lowry’s line too if the top line isn’t working.

 

[Halberdier]

As long as this team keeps winning games, you will continue to be disappointed if you wish for CSW to be broken up.

Please. There is N+1 possible combinations other than ELL even without touching CSW at all.

 

[Weezeric]

Why don't we wait until we lose a game, maybe, until we start messing around with all the lines.

As for getting Laine going... he's on one of the longest scoring streaks in the NHL right now. I know we all want him to get 2 points a game but perhaps we should all calm down a bit.

 

[Halberdier]

I think part of the reason Mo hasn’t split up ELL is because he wants to make sure that top line can match up to anyone in the league and I’m not sure he think putting Laine or Ehlers there would be ideal.

Can you elaborate more on this since I can't undestand how putting Ehlers or Laine to the 1st line instead of Connor would make 1st line less able to match up the toughest opposition.

If anything, replacing Connor with Laine should make the 1st line much better defensively, as the defensive play has been pretty much the only major problem with 1st line so far. The 1st line has been on fire offensively and therefore they have been able to stay on net positive 5-on-5, but a bit too often they are letting 2-3 goals against per game.

 

[Halberdier]

Why don't we wait until we lose a game, maybe, until we start messing around with all the lines.

As for getting Laine going... he's on one of the longest scoring streaks in the NHL right now. I know we all want him to get 2 points a game but perhaps we should all calm down a bit.

Maurice already waited for that. Eg. Vegas did win, but no reaction on ELL then. Also couple of times losing has been very close.

Don't touch what is working, but you should really change what isn't working, and ELL is a prime example of that.

 

[Duke749]

Can you elaborate more on this since I can't undestand how putting Ehlers or Laine to the 1st line instead of Connor would make 1st line less able to match up the toughest opposition.

If anything, replacing Connor with Laine should make the 1st line much better defensively, as the defensive play has been pretty much the only major problem with 1st line so far. The 1st line has been on fire offensively and therefore they have been able to stay on net positive 5-on-5, but a bit too often they are letting 2-3 goals against per game.

Well up until recently i haven’t liked Laine’s zone exits, or rather, lack there of. He has to be more responsible with the puck and i believe Connor has been better in that specific regard. But if Laine can be stronger on the puck and to maintain possession it would be a big improvement. I think lately Ehlers and Laine are kinda playing like they’re on bigger ice whereas Connor is more the North American style a bit.

As far as the top line getting scored on, well we know at times Wheeler hasn’t exactly been stellar defensively and Schief does try and fly the zone rather quick at times and it has bitten him sometimes.

I think there’s time where they get a little cocky and too cute and it hurts them. They can be more aggressive on the forecheck.

 

[Weezeric]

Maurice already waited for that. Eg. Vegas did win, but no reaction on ELL then. Also couple of times losing has been very close.

Don't touch what is working, but you should really change what isn't working, and ELL is a prime example of that.

You can't change one line without changing others and the jets are 8-1-1 in the last 10, best in the NHL..

 

[Rene Saari]

Let's all remember that ELL was never meant to be, and was stitched together as act of desperation. This is how it went:
MP got injured, and Connor was called up to replace him, to play with Little and Laine. That lasted about half of his first game (against CBJ) when 1st line of ESW took at least -3 and Maurice switched Connor and Ehlers.

ELL is accident, ugly bastard child. It had it's first real 5on5 goal in last game, so MAYBE there still some hope. If They ignite on road trip, fine. If not, it is time to put this bastard abomination of a line out of misery.

This may be, but it don't give an answer nor solution why the f*** Laine and Little spend any minute on the ice together.

 

[Rene Saari]

And this is why fans will never coach in the NHL. Let's break up the lines while we are on a win streak so we can try some neat stuff. The solid play will not last forever but until then let's just enjoy the ride.

There hasn't been much sense in Maurice's combinations either. I'm amazed, if these present lines will carry team to play offs.