Prospect Info: 1st Overall Thread: Jack or Kappo?

[Emperoreddy]

All 1st overall talk

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[Star Ocean]

Kakko went scoreless his last 6 games.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

This is a thread why exactly?

 

[MadDevil]

This is a thread why exactly?

Because the World Championship is over and we're going to debate this anyway? Might as well try to keep it in one thread.

 

[Jack Be Quick]

Because the World Championship is over and we're going to debate this anyway? Might as well try to keep it in one thread.

The Devil's GM has all but said directly that Jack is our boy.

Every single professional scout, agency, whatever has also stated he is the consensus.

So yeah, what's the debate?

Eichel or McDavid...

Shut it down.

 

[kiwidevil]

That Kakko youtube shift video from the final is the strangest thing to me. Basically the defense keep him exactly where they would want him, he gets basically zero separation, he barely takes his eyes off the puck to look for anyone at any point. Get's pushed over, then tries the same move for the 4th time before getting cleaned out and allowing a clean outlet pass.

Surely there's better things to make a video about?

 

[Capt Nico Poo]

All 1st overall talk

I have been told that foreigners have trouble with the Finnish double-vowls and double-consonants. Kaapo Kakko in all simplicity is probably the best example of this

 

[Emperoreddy]

It’s all but certainly Jack, but a minority think Ray might be wrong for picking him ATm so here is a thread to debate it.

 

[Star Ocean]

Jack looked amazing vs russia.

He is the nr1

 

[devilsfan35]

My one criticism with kakko is that he is a bit to individual at times. Jack uses his teammates better. Besides that you can’t really go wrong with either but I’m on team Hughes.

 

[NJDevs26]

The Devil's GM has all but said directly that Jack is our boy.

Every single professional scout, agency, whatever has also stated he is the consensus.

So yeah, what's the debate?

While I agree with the first three sentences, not everyone else does. It's become toxic around here for weeks because a vocal minority got indignant over the fact there was only an open Hughes thread - despite the fact there would have also been a Kakko thread if people didn't start attacking each other right away in it - and didn't feel debating was 'allowed' by the majority constantly slamming them. Perception became self-fulfilling reality.

Clearly no solution (having a Hughes thread, having no thread at all other than the draft/mocks) is going to make everyone happy, but if there's going to be a back and forth for the next month might as well have one here and end the perception that debate's not allowed.

So no mocking of anyone here, either side.

 

[96]

The Devil's GM has all but said directly that Jack is our boy.

Every single professional scout, agency, whatever has also stated he is the consensus.

So yeah, what's the debate?

Eichel or McDavid...

Shut it down.

This is like Matthews vs Laine. No one thinks they’re on the same tier except for the team that will get KAkko + Finnish fans.

 

[karhukissa]

This is like Matthews vs Laine. No one thinks they’re on the same tier except for the team that will get KAkko + Finnish fans.

It is nothing like Matthews vs Laine. And only tier above Kakko is generational, is Hughes generational? Pretty generational WHC by Hughes, luckily he is well rested for the combine atleast.

And everyone sees them head to head actually (Excluding devils fans and some NA guys), only because Hughes is a C and american. Also because he maybe has higher ceiling, otherwise everyone would rank Kakko as #1, including your experts.

 

[Devils731]

Everyone would rank Kakko #1 even my scouts(I technically employ no scouts) if we didn’t take potential into account? I dispute that notion in 2 ways:

1) I don’t think it’s guaranteed that the start of next season Hughes isn’t better than Kakko.

2) There is no reason to remove future potential from the equation for guys who will be under team control for the next 7 years.

In general, I may also dispute the notion that only some NA and Devils fans think Hughes is definitively the top guy. I see lots of pundits saying it’s close yet I don’t see any pundits willing to say Kakko is above Hughes, that is weird.

HFBoards is the outlier, you go to threads here and maybe a quarter to half the people think Kakko should go #1 but that seems to be just a HFBoards opinion right now.

 

[Nubmer6]

I have been told that foreigners have trouble with the Finnish double-vowls and double-consonants. Kaapo Kakko in all simplicity is probably the best example of this

My long standing theory is that vowels migrated to Finland from Czechoslovokia, so you have names like Kaako and Niinimaa in Finland while you have names like Petr and Jagr in the Czech Republic.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Everyone would rank Kakko #1 even my scouts(I technically employ no scouts) if we didn’t take potential into account? I dispute that notion in 2 ways:

1) I don’t think it’s guaranteed that the start of next season Hughes isn’t better than Kakko.

2) There is no reason to remove future potential from the equation for guys who will be under team control for the next 7 years.

In general, I may also dispute the notion that only some NA and Devils fans think Hughes is definitively the top guy. I see lots of pundits saying it’s close yet I don’t see any pundits willing to say Kakko is above Hughes, that is weird.

HFBoards is the outlier, you go to threads here and maybe a quarter to half the people think Kakko should go #1 but that seems to be just a HFBoards opinion right now.

The premise is not true, and is based on a handful of games at an exhibition tournament, no matter how much people want to dispute. Kakko was less dominant at pretty much every stage up to being drafted than Sasha Barkov, who is actually significantly bigger than Kakko and plays center. It took Barkov a few years to come into his own, and Nico’s production his first two years blows him out of the water.

There is no reason that Hughes can’t put up at least 60 points next year, and there’s no guarantee that Kakko puts up more than 50.

As I keep saying it seems like people here have an instant onset of amnesia when obsessing over size, especially when the guy you’re obsessing over is not a giant by any stretch. Or, ask yourself who was more NHL ready, small Jesper Bratt, or big and fast Mikey McLeod?

 

[Missionhockey]

It's silly to think there isn't a legit debate. Kakko just won a tournament full of professional players of which he was the best player. I'm team Hughes, but lets be realistic.

 

[Triumph]

Everyone would rank Kakko #1 even my scouts(I technically employ no scouts) if we didn’t take potential into account? I dispute that notion in 2 ways:

1) I don’t think it’s guaranteed that the start of next season Hughes isn’t better than Kakko.

2) There is no reason to remove future potential from the equation for guys who will be under team control for the next 7 years.

In general, I may also dispute the notion that only some NA and Devils fans think Hughes is definitively the top guy. I see lots of pundits saying it’s close yet I don’t see any pundits willing to say Kakko is above Hughes, that is weird.

HFBoards is the outlier, you go to threads here and maybe a quarter to half the people think Kakko should go #1 but that seems to be just a HFBoards opinion right now.

Mannyelk on Twitter has been beating the Kakko should go #1 overall drum pretty hard - he says his model has Kakko #1. I'm a little skeptical of models when it comes to very high end performances like Hughes's in the USHL this season, though.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

It's silly to think there isn't a legit debate. Kakko just won a tournament full of professional players of which he was the best player. I'm team Hughes, but lets be realistic.

This isn’t true, except for the fact that his team won the tournament. And every other year the winning this tournament is the equivalent of winning a Cable Ace award. Now it’s more important than the Olympics and tells you everything you need to know about a prospect.

I’m glad the whole cursed thing is over.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

It's silly to think there isn't a legit debate. Kakko just won a tournament full of professional players of which he was the best player. I'm team Hughes, but lets be realistic.

Kakko went scoreless in his final 6 games of the tournament. He also had 0 assists the entire tournament. 2 of his goals were empty netters. Kakko was extremely impressive, but Jack Hughes will and should go 1st overall. He is going to be the better player.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Mannyelk on Twitter has been beating the Kakko should go #1 overall drum pretty hard - he says his model has Kakko #1. I'm a little skeptical of models when it comes to very high end performances like Hughes's in the USHL this season, though.

What has this person’s model predicted correctly that most other people missed?

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

It's silly to think there isn't a legit debate. Kakko just won a tournament full of professional players of which he was the best player. I'm team Hughes, but lets be realistic.

There isnt though. Debate how close they are all you want because of a single tournament but not even the Rangers take Kakko 1st overall

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

It is nothing like Matthews vs Laine. And only tier above Kakko is generational, is Hughes generational? Pretty generational WHC by Hughes, luckily he is well rested for the combine atleast.

And everyone sees them head to head actually (Excluding devils fans and some NA guys), only because Hughes is a C and american. Also because he maybe has higher ceiling, otherwise everyone would rank Kakko as #1, including your experts.

Except for the professional world whos jobs it is to evaluate talent. They think its 100/0 Jack

 

[My3Sons]

Mannyelk on Twitter has been beating the Kakko should go #1 overall drum pretty hard - he says his model has Kakko #1. I'm a little skeptical of models when it comes to very high end performances like Hughes's in the USHL this season, though.

If he reveals his algorithm we can properly evaluate it.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Jack’s skating in the Russia game screams generational skater*

Again, almost never use that word besides for his skating. He could end up a better skater than Connor minus the top speed