1994 -- How did Detroit Lose to San Jose?

Big Phil

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They did refer to Irbe as "The Wall" back then. At least in San Jose. I remember thinking that it was kind of funny the next round when they played the Leafs to have him called that...................then they took us to 7 games too and nearly won, so I got it then.

Even after Osgood's gaffe, there was still 7 minutes left in the game. Not quite the 15 minutes the Oilers had after Steve Smith in 1986 but still enough time with that Wings line up.

This was just the era of Wings teams that had great regular seasons and then bombed in the playoffs. This happened up until 1997 when it all changed. This just looked bad because the Sharks were one season removed from the most losses in a season in NHL history.
 

GMR

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I would say the Red Wings got them back the following season. The Wings weren't going anywhere in 1994 with that team. I do feel bad that Probert didn't have the chance to win the Cup with Detroit. Game 7 was his last game for the team.
 

Big Phil

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I would say the Red Wings got them back the following season. The Wings weren't going anywhere in 1994 with that team. I do feel bad that Probert didn't have the chance to win the Cup with Detroit. Game 7 was his last game for the team.

In all honesty, there is no reason to suggest they couldn't have gotten to the Cup final in 1994. Calgary was out first round and if Detroit moves on that makes the 2nd round match ups Detroit-Vancouver, Toronto-Dallas. Either way, they lose to the Rangers but I think the west was a little more open that year with it being anyone's game. The Wings led the NHL in goals with 356 that year, far more than second place New Jersey at 306. Hard to believe huh?
 

Sanf

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It is a puzzling upset as Sharks were a few years removed from their inaugural season.

Sharks definitely showed they came to play in round one their first few playoff appearances as they were a goal away from eliminating the Leafs in round 2 and then took out the #2 seeded Flames in the '95 playoffs.

Red Wings got their revenge in the '95 playoffs, and from what I recall watching on classic Series, the Red Wings pulverized the Sharks in 4 games. I just looked it up and they outscored them 24-6 over 4 games. Probably one of the most lopsided series from 90's up until today.

They did make quite many great moves before and during that season so the team was already complitely different that what was given to them at the start.

Makarov and Larionov were excellent moves ofcourse. Larionov was free. Makarov was quite bit more expensive. edit. need to mentiond that Don Cherry thought that signing Chris Kontos would have been better move :) Jeff Norton was cheap acquisition. Captain Bob Errey came for 5th round pick.

North Stars connection was still strong. Geatan Duschesne was brought in summer from Minnesota (well Dallas). Then they claimed Todd Elik from waivers (to shortly replace injured Larionov) from there. Ulf Dahlen who I believe was Elik´s linemate in North Stars was brought in midseason. And well working line was formed from them. Big thing in their playoff push.

I think the biggest weakness was their defence. Ozolins was more of 4th forward. Norton was offensively talented and could play D, but not very consistently. They were really, really close to going to conference finals with Tom Pederson as their third dmen. The second and third pairing in playoffs were Tom Pederson-Vlastimil Kroupa and Jay More-Shawn Cronin.

Kroupa was 18 year old offensive dman who at the end never made it. Shawn Cronin was 30 year old enforcer who had played part of regular season in forward line because there wasn´t room in (amazing) Defence. Forever promising Jay More played 400 games in NHL mostly as 6 D. During that season he was scratched in lot of games. Tom Pederson had few fine seasons in Sharks, but played total of 240 games in NHL. They really overachieved in playoffs.

I was hardcore Shark fan at the time. Today really not fan of any team. Maybe slightly rooting for Sharks because of the memories. These early Sharks teams are cult teams for me :).
 

Sanf

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Mid 90s Wings only went so far Fedorov was able to score them.



Those light turquoise (or whatever color it is) away jerseys are awesome. Perhaps it's some nostalgia involved, but I like unusual colors like purple (Kings) and perhaps even brown....

Yeah I guess its teal, but I don´t believe that there is even Finnish translation for that. I have always called that baby blue :). Because I remember Craig Janney calling those "horrible baby blue jerseys". Can´t remember if it was when Janney was in Sharks or afterwards.
 

Pasha71

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I actually remember that. Being from the Soviet Union (and spending my last three Soviet years (1987-90) in Latvia), I naturally loved the fact that the Sharks had not only two Russian superstars from the '80s, Makarov and Larionov, but also two Latvians, Irbe and Ozolinsh. So when my Blues miserably lost to Dallas, I obviously sort of adopted the Sharks as my No 2 favorite team.
 
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vadim sharifijanov

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They did refer to Irbe as "The Wall" back then. At least in San Jose. I remember thinking that it was kind of funny the next round when they played the Leafs to have him called that...................then they took us to 7 games too and nearly won, so I got it then.

the wall is probably an inappropriate nickname. the barricade is more fitting.

i loved irbe. easily my favourite canucks goalie between mclean and luongo (and there were many).

the guy feared nothing. he quit the red army team when tanks invaded riga during the singing revolution so i don't think he's going to be intimidated by scotty bowman and sergei fedorov.
 

GMR

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In all honesty, there is no reason to suggest they couldn't have gotten to the Cup final in 1994. Calgary was out first round and if Detroit moves on that makes the 2nd round match ups Detroit-Vancouver, Toronto-Dallas. Either way, they lose to the Rangers but I think the west was a little more open that year with it being anyone's game. The Wings led the NHL in goals with 356 that year, far more than second place New Jersey at 306. Hard to believe huh?
Yeah there was. Chris Osgood.
 
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Sadekuuro

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the wall is probably an inappropriate nickname. the barricade is more fitting.

i loved irbe. easily my favourite canucks goalie between mclean and luongo (and there were many).

the guy feared nothing. he quit the red army team when tanks invaded riga during the singing revolution so i don't think he's going to be intimidated by scotty bowman and sergei fedorov.

Fedorov wasn't even particularly good in that series (which was strange coming off that monster regular season). A bit more from him could have decisively swung such a close series.

Irbe was hard not to like though, and he was fantastic that year. He was a bigger factor than young Osgood, series winning gaffe notwithstanding.
 

Jim MacDonald

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A couple of things I learned guys and gals (from reading and hearsay): When Yzerman came back in game 5 he wasn't even 100% healed then, I heard he was "rushed" back into the lineup. Essensa lost Bowman's confidence after Game 1, friction had developed between some of the Wings players (notably Ciccarelli and Coffey) and Bowman on whether to play Bowman's tight defensive game or more of the wide open style that earned them the game 6 blowout. As an aside, I read/heard Bowman and Bryan Murray bickered a lot that year.
 

Hobnobs

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In this era, I began to envy teams like Detroit, with money to burn and US dollars to pay with. They lost to Toronto? Let's bring in Scotty Bowman! Lost to San Jose? Let's get Larionov!

This kind of thing wasn't an option for Edmonton, which lost five of Hall of Famers and their head coach in the summer of 1991 alone.

The Larionov thing was on Sharks though who suddenly decided to hate soviets.
 

Hobnobs

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Maybe.............but in 1998 Osgood let in three playoff goals from outside of the blue line and the Wings won the Cup. There are times you can win in spite of your goalie.

Thats three goals. Hardly something that makes someone a liability when he saves all other shots. The only time he actually became a liability in that playoffs was in game 2 when he had a appalling performance including getting a game misconduct.
 

Wings4Life

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Looking at those highlights, it does seem Irbe was a major factor (despite game six), and also Fedorov seemed unable to score but for that lucky one (also in game six).

Fedorov was dealing with a concussion that caused him to miss the last 2.5 games of the season (and cost him any chance at the Art Ross). As a result, Fedorov was off the whole series and (medically speaking) should NOT have been playing, despite his 8 points in 7 games, but times were different back in the mid-90's.
 

Big Phil

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Thats three goals. Hardly something that makes someone a liability when he saves all other shots. The only time he actually became a liability in that playoffs was in game 2 when he had a appalling performance including getting a game misconduct.

It was also the timing of the goals. The MacInnis goal from near centre ice tied the game (Detroit won in overtime, but still). The Langenbrunner goal was an overtime marker. The Roenick goal was in Game 3 and a game the Red Wings would lose and be down 2-1 in the series. 1998 wasn't a year where you would say the Cup winning goalie was "on". He made several bad mistakes.

This is unusual, because Osgood other than those 1998 gaffes and the 1994 Game 7 debacle wasn't one to blatantly screw up like that. He wasn't one to steal a series either, but he was usually along the lines of steady enough to win if he had a great team in front of him.
 

GMR

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It was also the timing of the goals. The MacInnis goal from near centre ice tied the game (Detroit won in overtime, but still). The Langenbrunner goal was an overtime marker. The Roenick goal was in Game 3 and a game the Red Wings would lose and be down 2-1 in the series. 1998 wasn't a year where you would say the Cup winning goalie was "on". He made several bad mistakes.

This is unusual, because Osgood other than those 1998 gaffes and the 1994 Game 7 debacle wasn't one to blatantly screw up like that. He wasn't one to steal a series either, but he was usually along the lines of steady enough to win if he had a great team in front of him.
He was definitely bipolar. In game 6 against the Stars in 1998, he was brilliant in a shutout. Also, see his game 7 shutout against the Blues in 1996. St. Louis had the best of the chances in OT. He certainly had his moments where he could steal games despite having a superior team in front of him where he didn't face many shots.

His most consistent playoffs, of course, were 2008 and 2009. I don't know if he "stole" any series in 2009, but I don't believe they get that far without him.

That 1998 team, though, was the most motivated team I ever saw. They were winning that Cup for Konstantinov and nobody was going to stop them (including Osgood).
 
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The Panther

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Fedorov was dealing with a concussion that caused him to miss the last 2.5 games of the season (and cost him any chance at the Art Ross).
I don't think he was going to get 10+ points in those 2.5 games...

Based on the highlights, Fedorov looked fine, had chances, was skating well, but he just seemed to have no luck.
 

Big Phil

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He was definitely bipolar. In game 6 against the Stars in 1998, he was brilliant in a shutout. Also, see his game 7 shutout against the Blues in 1996. St. Louis had the best of the chances in OT. He certainly had his moments where he could steal games despite having a superior team in front of him where he didn't face many shots.

His most consistent playoffs, of course, were 2008 and 2009. I don't know if he "stole" any series in 2009, but I don't believe they get that far without him.

That 1998 team, though, was the most motivated team I ever saw. They were winning that Cup for Konstantinov and nobody was going to stop them (including Osgood).

2009 for sure was the first time (and I guess last since he basically retired after this) where I thought he was more of a product of himself than the team.
 

c9777666

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Even with Bowman, Detroit's defense was still trying to figure things out and it was not quite yet up to speed.

They were 16th in goals allowed, the only time they would be outside the top 10 in that category under Bowman

Osgood was a Rookie, but he was there when the goals against rankings improved. Swapping in Vernon for a few years before Osgood (and Hasek) under Bowman was also key.

Ironically, the two prior years under Bryan Murray, they were #6 and #7 in goals allowed, so Cheveldae/Essensa must have really screwed up
 

ShelbyZ

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They were 16th in goals allowed, the only time they would be outside the top 10 in that category under Bowman

Osgood was a Rookie, but he was there when the goals against rankings improved. Swapping in Vernon for a few years before Osgood (and Hasek) under Bowman was also key.

Ironically, the two prior years under Bryan Murray, they were #6 and #7 in goals allowed, so Cheveldae/Essensa must have really screwed up

Just looking at the game logs from when that season started, it seems like it was the goalies that Osgood quickly leapfrogged on the depth chart that helped keep the Wings out of that top 10 spot...

Cheveldae went down in the first period of game #1 and missed a few weeks. From that point in game #1 until about halfway through game #10, the combo of Vincent Reindeau (who had requested a trade after Bowman put him in the doghouse after allowing 4 goals in relief of Cheveldae in game #1), Peter Ing and a forgettable NHL debut for Chris Osgood combined for a whopping .829 SV%...

I mean, there's some real stinkers in there:

-After helping the Red Wings get their first win in Game #2 in Anaheim, Peter Ing starts the very next night and allows 8 goals on 40 shots (5 of them in the 1st half of the 3rd...). Riendeau goes in for last half of the 3rd and allows 2 goals on 3 shots...
-Ing then bombs the Wings home opener against the Blues and they swap him out for Osgood. Ing never plays in the NHL again.
-In Osgoods 1st start and NHL debut, the Wings hold the Leafs to 21 shots, but Osgood allows 4 goals on 8 of them in 32:XX minutes. Riendeau then comes in and allows 2 on 9 shots for the remainder of the game.
-Riendeau finally gets his first start in Game #10 and allows 4 goals on 8 shots, in just under 28 minutes. Osgood comes in and allows 1 goal in 5 shots. They lose the game 5-3, despite allowing only 13 shots the whole game...

After that, Osgood strung 3 consecutive wins together and they rode him until Cheveldae returned.

Not that Cheveldae was ever really a great goalie, but he had his worst year since his first full season as a starter. The environment in Detroit probably didn't help. Bryan Murray was happy to blame the young goalie for the teams underachievement and by the 93-94 season he was getting booed off the ice at Joe Louis.

The goaltending mess that season is probably (and arguably rightfully) the major reason Murray lost his job as Red Wings GM. He doghouses Riendeau for the 2nd half of the previous season (went something like 6 weeks without a start, then a month, then 3 weeks between others), and rides Cheveldae into the ground before he puts the 1st round exit on him... Despite this, he keeps both goalies for 93-94. Then he trades for Essensa and gives him a hefty raise for 3 years before he even starts a game for the Red Wings... He bombs 2 playoff games and then gets paid more than Osgood and Vernon combined to play as far away from the Red Wings farm team as possible, so as not to interfere with the development of prospects (and future busts) Kevin Hodson and Norm Maracle...
 
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Hobnobs

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Just looking at the game logs from when that season started, it seems like it was the goalies that Osgood quickly leapfrogged on the depth chart that helped keep the Wings out of that top 10 spot...

Cheveldae went down in the first period of game #1 and missed a few weeks. From that point in game #1 until about halfway through game #10, the combo of Vincent Reindeau (who had requested a trade after Bowman put him in the doghouse after allowing 4 goals in relief of Cheveldae in game #1), Peter Ing and a forgettable NHL debut for Chris Osgood combined for a whopping .829 SV%...

I mean, there's some real stinkers in there:

-After helping the Red Wings get their first win in Game #2 in Anaheim, Peter Ing starts the very next night and allows 8 goals on 40 shots (5 of them in the 1st half of the 3rd...). Riendeau goes in for last half of the 3rd and allows 2 goals on 3 shots...
-Ing then bombs the Wings home opener against the Blues and they swap him out for Osgood. Ing never plays in the NHL again.
-In Osgoods 1st start and NHL debut, the Wings hold the Leafs to 21 shots, but Osgood allows 4 goals on 8 of them in 32:XX minutes. Riendeau then comes in and allows 2 on 9 shots for the remainder of the game.
-Riendeau finally gets his first start in Game #10 and allows 4 goals on 8 shots, in just under 28 minutes. Osgood comes in and allows 1 goal in 5 shots. They lose the game 5-3, despite allowing only 13 shots the whole game...

After that, Osgood strung 3 consecutive wins together and they rode him until Cheveldae returned.

Not that Cheveldae was ever really a great goalie, but he had his worst year since his first full season as a starter. The environment in Detroit probably didn't help. Bryan Murray was happy to blame the young goalie for the teams underachievement and by the 93-94 season he was getting booed off the ice at Joe Louis.

The goaltending mess that season is probably (and arguably rightfully) the major reason Murray lost his job as Red Wings GM. He doghouses Riendeau for the 2nd half of the previous season (went something like 6 weeks without a start, then a month, then 3 weeks between others), and rides Cheveldae into the ground before he puts the 1st round exit on him... Despite this, he keeps both goalies for 93-94. Then he trades for Essensa and gives him a hefty raise for 3 years before he even starts a game for the Red Wings... He bombs 2 playoff games and then gets paid more than Osgood and Vernon combined to play as far away from the Red Wings farm team as possible, so as not to interfere with the development of prospects (and future busts) Kevin Hodson and Norm Maracle...

Add insult to injury.. Murray actually traded Dallas Drake (and Chev) to get Bautin and Essensa...
 
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