1992 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. 1997 Detroit Red Wings

Who would win in a best-of-7 series?


  • Total voters
    79

CrosbyIsKing87

Registered User
May 3, 2017
88
43
Boston and Chicago are irrelevant to the discussion. Rangers were riddled with injuries in 93 and missed the playoffs so that's also irrelevant.

What happened in games 5 and 6? Penguins were spurred on by a lucky win and the Rangers were demoralized. It's called "momentum" maybe you've heard of it. Pretty simple.

You forget the Rangers were without Graves in 92 also which was a huge loss for them. He was a 50 plus goal scorer the year the Rangers won the cup, and he was the heart and soul of those Rangers teams. Dare I say he was more important to the Rangers than Lemieux was to Pittsburgh. 93 Penguins had Mario and lost to the lowly Islanders.

Well the Penguins were sure demoralized after losing Lemieux to a cheap shot and Mullen to a knee injury in game 2. But they rebounded and won the series. That's what the great teams do. They persevere regardless of momentum. If the Rangers were the better team then they would not have let that get them so demoralized. The better team won - Pittsburgh. And Graves was out because he served to be out. Cheap, dirty plays should be penalized.
 

Bryce Newman

Registered User
Jan 4, 2021
260
204
Well the Penguins were sure demoralized after losing Lemieux to a cheap shot and Mullen to a knee injury in game 2. But they rebounded and won the series. That's what the great teams do. They persevere regardless of momentum. If the Rangers were the better team then they would not have let that get them so demoralized. The better team won - Pittsburgh. And Graves was out because he served to be out. Cheap, dirty plays should be penalized.

The better team doesn't always win, especially in a sport like hockey where fluke bounces can turn an entire series around. You need a good team AND luck. If we went by what you said then that means the 93 Islanders were the better team than the 93 Penguins LOL. Penguins had a good team and luck on their side in 92. Be happy about it. Yes Graves deserved to be out, but it hurt the team a lot.
 
Last edited:

Bryce Newman

Registered User
Jan 4, 2021
260
204
That slash would've been New York's asterisk.

d83dHY.gif


Should we put an asterisk next to the 91 Penguins Cup too?
 

BigEezyE22

Continuing to not support HF.
Feb 2, 2007
5,645
2,971
Jersey
Hold on to the goalposts they are moving.. You said Lemieux was unstoppable. Lemieux was back from treatments well before the playoffs, the 93 Pens were stacked, and they lost to a middling Islanders team that was missing their best player. If I recall, Stevens played until the elimination game so that was not much of a factor. Therefore, it was certainly possible to stop Lemieux and company.
He said '92 Lemieux was unstoppable. You know, the guy who scored 15 points in 8 games in the Conference and Cup Finals while under the residual effects of a broken wrist....
 

BigEezyE22

Continuing to not support HF.
Feb 2, 2007
5,645
2,971
Jersey
Boston and Chicago are irrelevant to the discussion. Rangers were riddled with injuries in 93 and missed the playoffs so that's also irrelevant.

What happened in games 5 and 6? Penguins were spurred on by a lucky win and the Rangers were demoralized. It's called "momentum" maybe you've heard of it. Pretty simple.

You forget the Rangers were without Graves in 92 also which was a huge loss for them. He was a 50 plus goal scorer the year the Rangers won the cup, and he was the heart and soul of those Rangers teams. Dare I say he was more important to the Rangers than Lemieux was to Pittsburgh. 93 Penguins had Mario and lost to the lowly Islanders.

1. F Graves.

2. Who did the Rags beat in 93?
 

Bryce Newman

Registered User
Jan 4, 2021
260
204
1. F Graves.

2. Who did the Rags beat in 93?

Who could argue with such an intelligent post? "Rags"...haven't heard that one before. Brilliant. Take a bow. Rangers were injury riddled in 93. They won ANOTHER Presidents Trophy in 94, along with the Cup. Graves has as many Cups as Mario by the way. Little tidbit for ya'.
 

BigEezyE22

Continuing to not support HF.
Feb 2, 2007
5,645
2,971
Jersey
Who could argue with such an intelligent post? "Rags"...haven't heard that one before. Brilliant. Take a bow. Rangers were injury riddled in 93. They won ANOTHER Presidents Trophy in 94, along with the Cup. Graves has as many Cups as Mario by the way. Little tidbit for ya'.
Phil Bourque has more cups than Ray Bourque . Does it really mean anything ?
 

Bryce Newman

Registered User
Jan 4, 2021
260
204
Phil Bourque has more cups than Ray Bourque . Does it really mean anything ?

Yeah. It means Ray couldn't deliver a Cup for Boston and had to piggyback Colorado to win.

It's ok though, not everyone can be Leetch circa 1994. :)

Graves was a huge part of both the 1990 Oilers Cup and the Rangers 1994 Cup. Phil Bourque...well...wasn't a huge part of anything.
 

BigEezyE22

Continuing to not support HF.
Feb 2, 2007
5,645
2,971
Jersey
Graves was a career second liner at best and you somehow bring yourself to suggest he was more valuable than the guy who had been the best player in the game for 4 years running (and the subsequent 5).

Also, you act as though ever Pittsburgh win was a fluke while every time NY eeked one out it was some sort of dominant masterpiece . Your disconnect from reality is pretty startling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: barbu

Bryce Newman

Registered User
Jan 4, 2021
260
204
Graves was a career second liner at best and you somehow bring yourself to suggest he was more valuable than the guy who had been the best player in the game for 4 years running (and the subsequent 5).

Also, you act as though ever Pittsburgh win was a fluke while every time NY eeked one out it was some sort of dominant masterpiece . Your disconnect from reality is pretty startling.

Rangers won 2 Presidents Trophies and the Cup in 3 years. Individually neither of the Penguin Cup teams were as good as the 94 Rangers as neither one won both the regular season championship and the Cup. They hardly "eeked" anything out.

Penguins had a chance to do it in 93 but choked against a terrible Islanders team that the Rangers destroyed the very next season.

After the Penguins arrogance in 92 I was very happy to witness them being humbled in 93 by the lowly Isles. Penguins thought they were going to be the 90s version of the Oilers but it didn't quite pan out that way.

And Graves played on the first line with Messier, broke the Rangers single season goal record and had his number lifted to the rafters after he retired. He's a legend in New York.

Having said all that, I voted the 92 Penguins would beat the 97 Red Wings in 7 games. You're welcome. :)
 
Last edited:

CrosbyIsKing87

Registered User
May 3, 2017
88
43
Rangers won 2 Presidents Trophies and the Cup in 3 years. Individually neither of the Penguin Cup teams were as good as the 94 Rangers as neither one won both the regular season championship and the Cup. They hardly "eeked" anything out.
Penguins had a chance to do it in 93 but choked against a terrible Islanders team that the Rangers destroyed the very next season.
After the Penguins arrogance in 92 I was very happy to witness them being humbled in 93 by the lowly Isles. Penguins thought they were going to be the 90s version of the Oilers but it didn't quite pan out that way.
And Graves played on the first line with Messier, broke the Rangers single season goal record and had his number lifted to the rafters after he retired. He's a legend in New York.
Having said all that, I voted the 92 Penguins would beat the 97 Red Wings in 7 games. You're welcome. :)

Regular season doesn't mean much. The playoffs are what counts. Cups are what count. That's why Pittsburgh fans don't care about the President's Trophy in 93. They lost against the Islanders in the playoffs and that's what mattered that year. The 91 and 92 teams had eight Hall of Famers on them. Eleven if you include Patrick, Bowman, and Johnson. 94 Rangers had five. The 92 team won ELEVEN games in a row on the way to the Cup. They had arguably the greatest player ever in Lemieux and the future greatest European player ever, Jagr. They had the best offensive defenseman in hockey, Coffey. They had arguably the best power forward in the game in Stevens. Of the current top 20 all time points leaders those teams had SIX of them. Either team would best the 94 Rangers in a seven game series. They had the Rangers' number. Beat them for the division in 91 and in the playoffs in 92. Beat them again in 96.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Czech Your Math

BigEezyE22

Continuing to not support HF.
Feb 2, 2007
5,645
2,971
Jersey
Rangers won 2 Presidents Trophies and the Cup in 3 years. Individually neither of the Penguin Cup teams were as good as the 94 Rangers as neither one won both the regular season championship and the Cup. They hardly "eeked" anything out.

Penguins had a chance to do it in 93 but choked against a terrible Islanders team that the Rangers destroyed the very next season.

After the Penguins arrogance in 92 I was very happy to witness them being humbled in 93 by the lowly Isles. Penguins thought they were going to be the 90s version of the Oilers but it didn't quite pan out that way.

And Graves played on the first line with Messier, broke the Rangers single season goal record and had his number lifted to the rafters after he retired. He's a legend in New York.

Having said all that, I voted the 92 Penguins would beat the 97 Red Wings in 7 games. You're welcome. :)
Graves broke 50 goals 1 time. Didn't even clear 40 a second, and never had a 100 point season. Kinda scary if that gets a jersey retired.
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

Baldina
Feb 29, 2020
17,131
18,198
Regular season doesn't mean much. The playoffs are what counts. Cups are what count. That's why Pittsburgh fans don't care about the President's Trophy in 93. They lost against the Islanders in the playoffs and that's what mattered that year. The 91 and 92 teams had eight Hall of Famers on them. Eleven if you include Patrick, Bowman, and Johnson. 94 Rangers had five. The 92 team won ELEVEN games in a row on the way to the Cup. They had arguably the greatest player ever in Lemieux and the future greatest European player ever, Jagr. They had the best offensive defenseman in hockey, Coffey. They had arguably the best power forward in the game in Stevens. Of the current top 20 all time points leaders those teams had SIX of them. Either team would best the 94 Rangers in a seven game series. They had the Rangers' number. Beat them for the division in 91 and in the playoffs in 92. Beat them again in 96.

This post makes me think that you should start another thread.
 

Bryce Newman

Registered User
Jan 4, 2021
260
204
Regular season doesn't mean much. The playoffs are what counts. Cups are what count. That's why Pittsburgh fans don't care about the President's Trophy in 93. They lost against the Islanders in the playoffs and that's what mattered that year. The 91 and 92 teams had eight Hall of Famers on them. Eleven if you include Patrick, Bowman, and Johnson. 94 Rangers had five. The 92 team won ELEVEN games in a row on the way to the Cup. They had arguably the greatest player ever in Lemieux and the future greatest European player ever, Jagr. They had the best offensive defenseman in hockey, Coffey. They had arguably the best power forward in the game in Stevens. Of the current top 20 all time points leaders those teams had SIX of them. Either team would best the 94 Rangers in a seven game series. They had the Rangers' number. Beat them for the division in 91 and in the playoffs in 92. Beat them again in 96.

The 92 Penguins had 6 playoff roster Hall of Famers, not 8. And Trottier was completely done at that point. Plus, everyone knows Larmer should easily be in the Hall of Fame, so that argument is a wash.

The 92 and 96 Rangers were very different from the 94 Rangers. 94 Rangers went out and got guys like MacTavish, Anderson, Tikkanen and Larmer specifically to win a Stanley Cup. Those guys were through the wars and knew how to win in the playoffs. Then there were very good depth players like Matteau and Noonan and young talented russians Kovalev and Nemchinov.

Leetch and Zubov, the Hall of Fame NY defensemen, were both better than Murphy. They were one of the best back ends in NHL history. And young russian Alexander Karpotsev had just come on to the scene and was very solid.

Also, 94 Rangers had a much better coach than the 92 squad. Bowman was great, but so was Keenan having already been in the Final several times before. While Bowman beat Keenan in the 92 Final, 92 Chicago was a considerably weaker team than the 94 Rangers squad.

Yeah, Penguins won 11 in a row at the end. But they barely got out of the first round against Washington in 7 games (trailing that series 3 games to 1), and needed a lucky Francis goal to beat the Rangers (they were once again about to go down 3 games to 1 if not for the fluke Francis goal).

Rangers won their first 7 games of the playoffs in 94. They won every game by AT LEAST 3 goals and in some games DOUBLE that amount, crushing an Islanders team that beat the Penguins the year before and outscoring them 22-3! And that team had Turgeon.

Rangers weren't just winning, they were DOMINATING out of the gate. This coming off the heels of a regular season championship with the most wins in the league.

Additionally, in the playoffs the Rangers scored 81 goals in 1994 and gave up 50. Penguins scored 83 goals in 1992 and gave up 63. The 92 Penguins defense was unquestionably weaker than the 94 Rangers while offensively they were almost equal. Rangers were never outscored by any opponent in a 94 playoff series. Penguins were outscored 27-25 against Washington.

Also, the 92 Penguins entered into a playoff game trailing in the series 6 times. The 94 Rangers only entered into a playoff game trailing in the series 3 times.

Too much depth, experience and young talent on that 94 Rangers team for the 92 Penguins to handle. Plus Messier was on a mission, and Leetch was in God-Mode. Under Keenan his defense became very good (better than 92) while his offense was at Coffey-like levels. He would have feasted on the weaker Penguins defense.

There's no way the 92 Penguins win that series unless Mario and Jagr go bonkers. That'd be their only chance. 94 Rangers were more balanced and built to win in the playoffs. Aside from the 99 Stars, the 94 Rangers were the only team that decade to win the Presidents Trophy and the Cup the same year. They had too many guys with too many rings, and too much young talent.
 
Last edited:

Bryce Newman

Registered User
Jan 4, 2021
260
204
Graves broke 50 goals 1 time. Didn't even clear 40 a second, and never had a 100 point season. Kinda scary if that gets a jersey retired.

Graves is 3rd all-time in Rangers goals, first in power play playoff goals and 2nd all-time in franchise history for most goals in a season. He was consistently one of the best power forwards in the game and his work off the ice and in the community is unrivaled. He was also the ultimate teammate. No one deserved to have their number retired more than Adam Graves.
 

CrosbyIsKing87

Registered User
May 3, 2017
88
43
The 92 Penguins had 6 playoff roster Hall of Famers, not 8. And Trottier was completely done at that point. Plus, everyone knows Larmer should easily be in the Hall of Fame, so that argument is a wash.

The 92 and 96 Rangers were very different from the 94 Rangers. 94 Rangers went out and got guys like MacTavish, Anderson, Tikkanen and Larmer specifically to win a Stanley Cup. Those guys were through the wars and knew how to win in the playoffs. Then there were very good depth players like Matteau and Noonan and young talented russians Kovalev and Nemchinov.

Leetch and Zubov, the Hall of Fame NY defensemen, were both better than Murphy. They were one of the best back ends in NHL history. And young russian Alexander Karpotsev had just come on to the scene and was very solid.

Also, 94 Rangers had a much better coach than the 92 squad. Bowman was great, but so was Keenan having already been in the Final several times before. While Bowman beat Keenan in the 92 Final, 92 Chicago was a considerably weaker team than the 94 Rangers squad.

Yeah, Penguins won 11 in a row at the end. But they barely got out of the first round against Washington in 7 games (trailing that series 3 games to 1), and needed a lucky Francis goal to beat the Rangers (they were once again about to go down 3 games to 1 if not for the fluke Francis goal).

Rangers won their first 7 games of the playoffs in 94. They won every game by AT LEAST 3 goals and in some games DOUBLE that amount, crushing an Islanders team that beat the Penguins the year before and outscoring them 22-3! And that team had Turgeon.

Rangers weren't just winning, they were DOMINATING out of the gate. This coming off the heels of a regular season championship with the most wins in the league.

Additionally, in the playoffs the Rangers scored 81 goals in 1994 and gave up 50. Penguins scored 83 goals in 1992 and gave up 63. The 92 Penguins defense was unquestionably weaker than the 94 Rangers while offensively they were almost equal. Rangers were never outscored by any opponent in a 94 playoff series. Penguins were outscored 27-25 against Washington.

Also, the 92 Penguins entered into a playoff game trailing in the series 6 times. The 94 Rangers only entered into a playoff game trailing in the series 3 times.

Too much depth, experience and young talent on that 94 Rangers team for the 92 Penguins to handle. Plus Messier was on a mission, and Leetch was in God-Mode. Under Keenan his defense became very good (better than 92) while his offense was at Coffey-like levels. He would have feasted on the weaker Penguins defense.

There's no way the 92 Penguins win that series unless Mario and Jagr go bonkers. That'd be their only chance. 94 Rangers were more balanced and built to win in the playoffs. Aside from the 99 Stars, the 94 Rangers were the only team that decade to win the Presidents Trophy and the Cup the same year. They had too many guys with too many rings, and too much young talent.

91 team = Lemieux, Coffey, Francis Trottier, Mullen, Jagr, Recchi, Murphy. That's eight. The 92 team had six, although you can make a good case for Tocchet going in someday. Trottier was not all done. He was their third line center. He got plenty of ice times and even played on the first line when Lemieux went down. Scored some pretty bug goals, won huge face-offs, killed penalties. Kind of like MacTavish did. Leetch and Murphy were probably neck and neck in 94. No way on Earth Zubov was better.

Flukey or not, Francis' shot went in. They won. Just like Lafleur's "too many men" goal counted and Steve Smit;'s "own goal" counted. That's the way it is. the Pens found a way. They won games 4, 5, and 6. Lots of teams struggle in the first round. The Isles almost lost to a WAY overmatched team in the Penguins in 82. Edmonton almost lost to Winnipeg in 1990. But they found a way to win. Great teams do that. The Rangers found a way to come back and beat NJ in round 3. Can't say "Yeah but Matteu's goal was flukey."

The Pens blew it against the Isles in 93 and NY didn't have their best player. True. But so did the Rangers against the Pens in 92 without Mario. Pittsburgh came back from 3-1 against the Caps and won a game 7 on the road, came back from down 2-1 and beat the Rangers without their best player, swept Boston (who was admittedly not as strong as they could have been without Neely), and swept Chicago. The Boston series wasn't even close. The Penguins beat Chicago in wide open games and close checking defensive games. They could play it any way you wanted. Lemieux and Jagr were dominant. Francis and Murphy way underrated. Plus the Pens had Mike Lange calling games and the Rangers had Marv Albert. C'mon.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,836
7,868
Oblivion Express
Wings in 6 and I'm a diehard Pens fan.

That Red Wings team is designed to frustrate the living shit out of an offensive only squad like the 91/92 Penguins. You don't have peak Jagr and the Pens D is atrocious beyond Murphy (relative to Detroit).

Mario and Tommy B would likely steal a game or 2. Just can't see it going past 6.
 

CrosbyIsKing87

Registered User
May 3, 2017
88
43
Wings in 6 and I'm a diehard Pens fan.

That Red Wings team is designed to frustrate the living shit out of an offensive only squad like the 91/92 Penguins. You don't have peak Jagr and the Pens D is atrocious beyond Murphy (relative to Detroit).

Mario and Tommy B would likely steal a game or 2. Just can't see it going past 6.

But how can you say the 92 team is "offense only"? They were balanced well and could play any style. Sure, they preferred an open, freewheeling game but they beat Chicago 3-1 and 1-0 in games 2 and 3 of the final. And they shut Washington down in games 6 and 7 in tight games and changed their game plan to basically a trap 1-4 delay. Detroit's D is definitely superior but the Pens get a bad rap for their defense. Ulf and Kjell Samulesson were pretty a pretty good #2 and #3 setup. Beyond them it was kind of average.
 

CrosbyIsKing87

Registered User
May 3, 2017
88
43
In what universe is Jim Paek anywhere near "kind of average"? ECHL maybe?
Hey, the guy took a regular shift in 19 playoff games in 92 (albeit a third line D pair) and led the team in +/- with a +10. Had four assists. I would say that's at least average. Plus he was Korean which was really unique.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad