1991 Canada Cup

[Numero Soixante Six]

The thing I take the most from the 1991 Canada Cup is the fact that it might very well have been an even better hockey tournament than the 1987 Canada Cup, were it not for the changing hockey landscape and changed world.
If you add in a prime Lemieux, along with Roy, Bourque, Neely and Recchi you probably have a lineup that is even stronger than the 87 team.

Gretzky - Shanahan - Larmer
Lemieux - Robitaille - Recchi
Messier - Lindros - Neely
Hawerchuk - Sutter - Tocchet
Fleury

Bourque - MacInnis
Coffey - Stevens
Murphy - Smith
Desjardins - Tinordi

Roy
Ranford
Belfour


This lineup drops Corson, Courtnall and Graham. Keenan would have been loyal to Sutter though, so I left him there. But you still have no Sakic, Gilmour, Yzerman, Oates or even Francis. That's how deep that team is at centre.

As unbeatable as that team looks though; if the USSR had decided to send a real team of their best players it would have a monumental battle.

Although Krutov got fat during his one year in the NHL and would not be in any shape to play; Larionov and Makarov were still superstars but were just not selected due to politics. The same goes for Fetisov and Mogilny. And they also decided to hold Bure as well.

The team could have easily been

Larionov - Kamensky - Makarov
Fedorov - Mogilny - Bure
Zhamnov - Nemchinov - Khomutov
Semak - Lomakin - Khymlev
Semenov

Borchevsky / Prokohorov / Butsayev / Khristich / 17 year old Kovalev - would have been in the running to make the team

Fetisov - Kasatonov
Gusarov - Kravchuk
Malakhov - Mironov
Tatarinov

Zubov / Konstantinov / Zhitnik - would have been in the running to make the team

Shtalenkov
Trefilov
????

That would have been one heck of a hockey team and one hell of a matchup. It would have been a Soviet team with a blend of young and old superstars.
Its really too bad it never happened and one that could have given a Team Canada roster with 13 future hall of famers a run for its money.

 

[The Panther]

Messier - Lindros - Neely

Good grief, can you imagine the sheer terror this line would cause every other team?

They'd be drawing straws on the bench to see who had to go out against them...

 

[JackSlater]

The thing I take the most from the 1991 Canada Cup is the fact that it might very well have been an even better hockey tournament than the 1987 Canada Cup, were it not for the changing hockey landscape and changed world.
If you add in a prime Lemieux, along with Roy, Bourque, Neely and Recchi you probably have a lineup that is even stronger than the 87 team.

Gretzky - Shanahan - Larmer
Lemieux - Robitaille - Recchi
Messier - Lindros - Neely
Hawerchuk - Sutter - Tocchet
Fleury

Bourque - MacInnis
Coffey - Stevens
Murphy - Smith
Desjardins - Tinordi

Roy
Ranford
Belfour


This lineup drops Corson, Courtnall and Graham. Keenan would have been loyal to Sutter though, so I left him there. But you still have no Sakic, Gilmour, Yzerman, Oates or even Francis. That's how deep that team is at centre.

As unbeatable as that team looks though; if the USSR had decided to send a real team of their best players it would have a monumental battle.

Although Krutov got fat during his one year in the NHL and would not be in any shape to play; Larionov and Makarov were still superstars but were just not selected due to politics. The same goes for Fetisov and Mogilny. And they also decided to hold Bure as well.

The team could have easily been

Larionov - Kamensky - Makarov
Fedorov - Mogilny - Bure
Zhamnov - Nemchinov - Khomutov
Semak - Lomakin - Khymlev
Semenov

Borchevsky / Prokohorov / Butsayev / Khristich / 17 year old Kovalev - would have been in the running to make the team

Fetisov - Kasatonov
Gusarov - Kravchuk
Malakhov - Mironov
Tatarinov

Zubov / Konstantinov / Zhitnik - would have been in the running to make the team

Shtalenkov
Trefilov
????

That would have been one heck of a hockey team and one hell of a matchup. It would have been a Soviet team with a blend of young and old superstars.
Its really too bad it never happened and one that could have given a Team Canada roster with 13 future hall of famers a run for its money.

I think a full strength USSR would be a bigger decrease from the 1987 team than would be the case for Canada, and by a decent margin. The green unit players were all on the downside by this point (Krutov especially as you said) while Bure, Fedorov and Mogilny were still a few years from their best, and there were no defencemen worthy of taking over for Fetisov and Kasatonov. Kind of between generations for USSR. They would have relied heavily on the Bykov line I would imagine, and given the pedigree of those involved still would have been a sizable challenge in the tournament.

 

[Theokritos]

Fetisov - Kasatonov

There is no way the two of them are put together as late as 1991.

They would have relied heavily on the Bykov line I would imagine

Ironically Bykov doesn't even make NSS's proposed roster above.

 

[Numero Soixante Six]

I have to disagree about the potential 91 teams being a downgrade from 87. Canada on defence alone would be much better than 87.

For the USSR; although the Green line was not as dominant in 91 as in 87; it still would have been a force once they were put back together. Makarov was a ppg player in Calgary and still only 33. He still had 3 more ppg years (or close to it) remaining in the NHL.
Larionov was only 30 in the summer of 91 and he actually may have gotten better with age. His best NHL season was in 95-96 with the Russian 5.
Fetisov was also 33 and although he struggled in the NHL at that time with the Devils, as soon as he got to a friendlier system to his style of game he was effective again. Kasatonov was 30 and played reasonably well with 40 point seasons in New Jersey.
The main thing is that the unit was always better than the sum of its parts and I think reuniting the unit would be the key. The way they played when they were together was magic and its something they could never duplicate in the NHL (although they came close in 95-96 with the Wings).
They would have to find a replacement for Krutov though. After analyzing the rest of lineup; I think a good fit could be found.

Ironically Bykov doesn't even make NSS's proposed roster above.

My bad, I did forget about Bykov. So you could reunite the Bykov - Khomutov - Kamensky line from the Red Army team and voila, you have a great second line.

That would mean the kid line is the 3rd line, and regardless of whether or not they were at their peaks; all three were superb talents who would especially be difficult to handle as a 3rd line.
Fedorov had 79 points as 21 year old rookie the season before and was 2nd in the Calder voting and already got a vote for the Selke. I don't think that happens often for a rookie.
Mogilny would have been 22 and hitting his prime. He came off a ppg season in Buffalo and the next season was on pace for a 100 point season.
Then there's Bure, who as a 20 year old was very likely the most electric player in the NHL. The pure blinding speed of that line would put the fear of god in the opposition.

So then you choose from Semak - Lomakin - Khymlev - Semenov - Nemchinov as your fourth line. They were all vets of the 87 team.
Or you could select new guys such as Borchevsky - Prokohorov - Butsayev - Khristich - 17 year old Kovalev

So for the LW spot on the green unit, you could take Kovalenko, who is an inferior facsimile of Krutov. Otherwise maybe Zhamnov could slot in there with his high skill level, or you could have Mogilny play there and Zhamnov play on the kid line.

On D, after the Fetisov- Kastanov pairing; since Gusarov and Kravchuk would be veterans of the 87 teams and would be 27 and 25 respectively. They would make a decent 2nd pairing.
For the 3rd pairing, they could go with the 24 year old Konstantinov and 23 year old Malakhov for a heavy hitting pairing that could still move the puck well.
As a 7th defenceman, Zubov at 21 could have been selected as an up and coming superstar. Otherwise there is the 27 year old Stelnov, 24 year old Tatarinov, or the 26 year old Mironov.

So the lineup actually looks like this:

Larionov - Zhamnov - Makarov
Bykov - Kamensky - Khomutov
Fedorov - Mogilny - Bure
Semak - Lomakin - Khymlev
Semenov / Nemchinov / Kovalenko


Fetisov - Kasatonov
Gusarov - Kravchuk
Malakhov - Konstantinov
Tatarinov / Mironov


That's a first line / unit that is weaker than the 87 team; but a second line that was in its prime and probably slightly better than the 87 version. The 3rd line becomes considerably stronger and the 4th line that's about the same.
The 2nd and 3rd pairings on D would also be stronger than the 87 team.

As a whole, I think this team is even better than the one that lost in the final of the 87 Canada Cup, in spite of the decline of the KLM line et al. But I still say Canada beat them (with their own beefed up roster)

 

[VMBM]

The main thing is that the unit was always better than the sum of its parts and I think reuniting the unit would be the key.

Isn't that sort of ideal, and basically true for all of the best units in hockey history? I especially hate when this argument is used AGAINST the individual Soviet players. (NOTE: I'm not talking about you.)

Anyway, whether they (sans Krutov) would've been a worthy top unit in 1991, it is questionable IMO. A couple of years earlier at the 1989 World Championships, they were already shadows of their former selves, also supported by their point totals:

Player GP G A P
Makarov 10 5 3 8
Krutov 10 4 2 6
Fetisov 10 2 4 6
Larionov 8 3 0 3
Kasatonov 10 2 0 2

How much of that drop-off in point production was due to their decline as individual players and how much due to their problems with Tikhonov/USSR (and partly with each other), it is hard to say. And I'm not actually sure, whether Kasatonov and Fetisov played together at all in that WHC. In any case, the Kamensky-Bykov-Khomutov line was clearly USSR's best.

Summa summarum, I'm not sure, how much of that old magic they could have reproduced in 1991; the feud was still there, and none of them were in their prime anymore (if not Larionov). Although it is hard to imagine the Green Unit as a liability even in 1991, it is not impossible.

 

[Theokritos]

And I'm not actually sure, whether Kasatonov and Fetisov played together at all in that WHC.

They didn't play together at all after the end of the 1987-88 season. Wouldn't have played together at the 1991 Canada Cup either of course.

 

[VMBM]

They didn't play together at all after the end of the 1987-88 season. Wouldn't have played together at the 1991 Canada Cup either of course.

Okay, I just remember a Fetisov interview (seen e.g. in the Swedish documentary on the Green Unit) around/before the 1989 WHC (?), in which he says with his broken English something like, "if coach says we play together, we play together, no problem".

But yeah, looking at the USSR's lineups on Chidlovski's site (e.g. their opening game vs. USA http://www.chidlovski.net/1954/54_game_info.asp?gm_id=gm811), Fetisov seemed to have played with Valeri Shyriaiev on the top unit and Kasatonov with Konstantinov on the 2nd.

 

[Zine]

I actually prefer the hypothetical 1991 to the 1987 CC Soviet team, better depth in all areas. Don't forget 1987 CC squad was missing 2nd line wingers Svetlov and Yashin.

As late as 1994 a decrepid Makarov & Larionov still put on a clinic against Detroit in the SC playoffs, so they'd be very good circa 1991 if used correctly. The obvious question is who'd they play with.

Khomutov - Bykov - Kamensky
XXXXX - Larionov - Makarov
Mogilny - Fedorov - Bure
Lomakin - Semak - Nemchinov

Fetisov - Gusarov
Kasatonov - Konstantinov
Malakhov - Kravchuk

Irbe
Shtalenkov

 

[Big Phil]

Putting aside the players who were injured or opted out for various reasons (Mario, Bourque, Recchi, Cullen, Neely), the only players who in my mind could have really helped the '91 team were Yzerman and Oates. Russ Courtnall, while one of my favorite players growing up, was kind of useless, and I don't remember Shanahan doing all that much. I don't think the '91 team would have beaten the '87 Soviet team or the '96 American team; in fact, I think they would have been beaten fairly easily both times.

You've still got Gretzky, who at this time was still playing better than any forward in NHL history (other than the previous years of Lemieux). I would hate to bet against Gretzky in his prime. Gretzky in 1991 was a much different version of the 1996 Gretzky. You've still got a prime Messier in 1991. Coffey in his prime, MacInnis in his prime. The 1991 Canadian defense was better than the 1996 Canadian defense.

I agree they may not beat the 1987 Russians though.

 

[Peter25]

I actually prefer the hypothetical 1991 to the 1987 CC Soviet team, better depth in all areas. Don't forget 1987 CC squad was missing 2nd line wingers Svetlov and Yashin.

As late as 1994 a decrepid Makarov & Larionov still put on a clinic against Detroit in the SC playoffs, so they'd be very good circa 1991 if used correctly. The obvious question is who'd they play with.

Khomutov - Bykov - Kamensky
XXXXX - Larionov - Makarov
Mogilny - Fedorov - Bure
Lomakin - Semak - Nemchinov

Fetisov - Gusarov
Kasatonov - Konstantinov
Malakhov - Kravchuk

Irbe
Shtalenkov

I would have left Makarov and Larionov out of the lineup. Makarov was ineffective in the 1991 WHC and Larionov was also worse than Bykov, Fedorov and Zhamnov at that point.

I would have played Fetisov with Tatarinov who worked great together in the 1990 WHC. Pairings of Konstantinov and Malakhov, and Zubov and Kasatonov played regularly on defense in CSKA in the 1989-1990 season. Gusarov and Kravchuk were probably the best defensemen after them, ahead of Mironov and Byakin.

Kamensky - Bykov - Khomutov, and Bure - Fedorov - Mogilny are no-brainers. Semak - Zhamnov - Lomakin all played for Dynamo in the previous year. Semak can play left wing as well. Khristich makes the fourth line ahead of Khmylev because he was younger and a bit more talented. Nemchinov is a solid checking center and Kovalenko is an up and coming young winger.

Khmylev, Slava Kozlov and Prokhorov were the last forwards left off from the team. Kozlov is more talented than Kovalenko and even Khristich, but he is also smaller and weaker than them.

Kamensky - Bykov - Khomutov
Bure - Fedorov - Mogilny
Semak - Zhamnov - Lomakin
Khristich - Nemchinov - Kovalenko

Fetisov - Tatarinov
Konstantinov - Malakhov
Zubov - Kasatonov
Gusarov - Kravchuk

Irbe
Shtalenkov
Trefilov

 

[Peter25]

By 1991 the Canada Cup had started to lose some of its edge as communism had fallen and many of Russian and Czech stars were playing in NHL. It was a good tourny but not great, didn't have the same character as the '87 or '76 Canada Cup.

What about the character of the 1981 Canada Cup? It was probably the best Canada Cup of them all, even with the lopsided final game.