1982 double what if?

CharlestownChiefsESC

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As we all know the 1982 playoffs featured an upset and an almost upset. The upset that occurred was the LA Kings knocking the Edmonton Oilers out in the first round, while the almost upset was the Islanders being down 3-1 to Pittsburgh in Game 5 of their first round series before coming back to win.

So my question now is what if we reverse the results? If the Oilers win, and the Islanders lose. Does the Oiler dynasty begin 2 years early or does a veteran team knock them off later on? If they do win do they win again in 83, do the Islanders sweep them like IRL? Or is it now a close series with the Isles out for blood and the Oilers with more confidence. On the flip side after the Islanders lost in 84 the team slowly started falling apart, does it start to happen earlier here, or does management foresee this and start looking to rebuild on the fly by moving older/veteran guys guys like Tonelli,Nystrom, and or Goring. Let me know your thoughts.
 
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Kyle McMahon

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That Islanders-Pittsburgh what if has always been interesting to me. If the Penguins hold on, whoever wins that year's Cup is probably considered the weakest champion of the expansion era.

And if you remove that Cup, the Islanders are arguably not even considered a dynasty. Rather than in the conversation for greatest dynasty.

In your scenario the Oilers have a pretty reasonable chance at winning the Cup. Had such a thing happened we probably view the 1980s as more of a dynasties co-existing scenario, rather than one giving way to another.
 

The Panther

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I just can't imagine the Oil winning it all in 1982. They were still so wet behind the ears (Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Anderson - 21, Coffey - 20, Fuhr - 19). Their core was all eligible for Junior hockey.

Then again, it's not easy to see Vancouver, Chicago, or ____ (?) knocking them off.
 
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Sticks and Pucks

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I wonder if the Oilers win in '83 in that scenario, having gone through the process one year earlier. It would have been an even greater Oiler dynasty and the Islanders probably wouldn't even be considered a dynasty.
 

CharlestownChiefsESC

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I wonder if the Oilers win in '83 in that scenario, having gone through the process one year earlier. It would have been an even greater Oiler dynasty and the Islanders probably wouldn't even be considered a dynasty.

Yeas but if the Isles lose early in 82 they are not there in the finals. Say its Edmonton vs Quebec do the Statsny brothers pull through? Idk.
 

decma

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Yeas but if the Isles lose early in 82 they are not there in the finals. Say its Edmonton vs Quebec do the Statsny brothers pull through? Idk.

It wasn't really reflected in the standings, but I thought that was the best Nordiques team of the 80s. Kind of the sweet spot between the ascent of the Stastnys and Goulet before Cloutier, Tardif and Richard completely fell off. Add Paiment and Hunter and that team had nine good to great forwards.
The D and goaltending weren't great, but in a world where NYI get knocked off I think they would have been favorites to win the cup.
 

hacksaw7

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The Isles squared off against a below average (though not piss poor) Penguins team and destroyed the the first two games. 8-1, 7-2. Perhaps they got a bit lazy expecting the Pens to just roll over and die back in Pittsburgh. NYI led game 3 1-0 going into the 3rd with Michel Dion playing extraordinarily well. The Pens tie it and then shock the Isles in OT on a Rick Kehoe goal (NYI did not lose in playoff OT back then). They then soundly beat NYI at the Coliseum 5-2, and lead 3-1 in decisive game 5 before McEwen/Tonelli score with less than 5 minutes to go to tie it at 3-3 and Tonelli wins it in OT

If Pitt held on they'd play the 91 pt Rangers in round 2. Don't see them beating NYR. That would set up a NYR/Nordiques Wales Conference Final. The Nords were an 82 point team but beat Montreal in Montreal, game 5 OT...they then trail the series with Boston 0-2, but battle back heroically to win three in a row and then win a Game 7 in Boston Garden. Quebec had some impressive offensive firepower back then. I feel they beat NYR and we've got Canucks vs. Nordiques in the Stanley Cup Finals

Or Canucks/Rangers. Unless somebody thinks Pittsburgh rides the wave of dethroning the Isles to a final
 

tarheelhockey

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If the Penguins hold on... the Islanders are arguably not even considered a dynasty. Rather than in the conversation for greatest dynasty.

That's a strange thought but undeniably true.

In some respects, this random flub from Norris-era Randy Carlyle was one of the most important plays in NHL history. It quite directly led to a dynasty.

 

c9777666

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In some respects, this random flub from Norris-era Randy Carlyle was one of the most important plays in NHL history. It quite directly led to a dynasty.



Even if everything plays out the same in 1983, 3 in 4 years would be seen differently as opposed to 4 in a row.
 
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hacksaw7

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I swear every week I block out the fact that Carlyle won the Norris.

He beat out Potvin by 7 votes and scored 7 more points than Potvin. But I don't know was his overall play at that high a level really the year he won the Norris? To get it over someone like Denis Potvin or Larry Robinson? (whose missed 15 games that year)
 

The Macho King

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He beat out Potvin by 7 votes and scored 7 more points than Potvin. But I don't know was his overall play at that high a level really the year he won the Norris? To get it over someone like Denis Potvin or Larry Robinson? (whose missed 15 games that year)
He was a minus 16 - tied for the third worst on his team, on a very bad defensive team (18th out of 21 for GA).

So like... he clearly wasn't a two-way player? Seems like he had a ton of PIMs so maybe he fought a lot and that was what swayed voters? I don't know. Seems equivalent to a guy like Housley winning.

He only has one other season with a top 10 Norris finish too, so it's not like he was "due" or anything.
 

Jumptheshark

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As we all know the 1982 playoffs featured an upset and an almost upset. The upset that occurred was the LA Kings knocking the Edmonton Oilers out in the first round, while the almost upset was the Islanders being down 3-1 to Pittsburgh in Game 5 of their first round series before coming back to win.

So my question now is what if we reverse the results? If the Oilers win, and the Islanders lose. Does the Oiler dynasty begin 2 years early or does a veteran team knock them off later on? If they do win do they win again in 83, do the Islanders sweep them like IRL? Or is it now a close series with the Isles out for blood and the Oilers with more confidence. On the flip side after the Islanders lost in 84 the team slowly started falling apart, does it start to happen earlier here, or does management foresee this and start looking to rebuild on the fly by moving older/veteran guys guys like Tonelli,Nystrom, and or Goring. Let me know your thoughts.


Oilers were not ready. That loss taught the oilers a lot of things and the loss the next year to the NYI taught them more

No answer to the Pens/NYI question
 

c9777666

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Oilers were not ready. That loss taught the oilers a lot of things and the loss the next year to the NYI taught them more

No answer to the Pens/NYI question

You'd have thought after the 81 playoff upset over MTL and their improvement in the standings the Oilers would be ready.

EDM found out the difference between being an underdog with a nothing to lose mentality and a favorite with everything to lose.

It was like THEY suddenly became the 81 Habs.
 

Jumptheshark

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You'd have thought after the 81 playoff upset over MTL and their improvement in the standings the Oilers would be ready.

EDM found out the difference between being an underdog with a nothing to lose mentality and a favorite with everything to lose.

It was like THEY suddenly became the 81 Habs.


I am going by what the players and coaches have said.
 

hacksaw7

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You'd have thought after the 81 playoff upset over MTL and their improvement in the standings the Oilers would be ready.

EDM found out the difference between being an underdog with a nothing to lose mentality and a favorite with everything to lose.

It was like THEY suddenly became the 81 Habs.

that upset was absurdly bizarre. A 63 point team, 2nd worst goals against in the league.

They actually win game 1 in Edmonton by the comical score of 10-8. And lose game 2 in overtime. People talk about game 3 and Edmonton dominating before the comeback...but LA had already gained the confidence and knew they could go toe to toe with them after Edmonton smoked them in the regular season games.

LA actually went through a stretch that season where they won twice in 25 games
 

Big Phil

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That's a strange thought but undeniably true.

In some respects, this random flub from Norris-era Randy Carlyle was one of the most important plays in NHL history. It quite directly led to a dynasty.



I always thought Carlyle was sluggish and too casual with that play. It is late in the game, you are about to knock off the two time champs and you've got pressure on a dump in and while it was a bad bounce he just was in a bad position for it, I thought. When you end up lying on your stomach when the tying goal is scored then that is never a good thing.

By the way, a great save in overtime was made by Billy Smith on a 2-on-1. We forget that there were times Billy saved their bacon.

Yeas but if the Isles lose early in 82 they are not there in the finals. Say its Edmonton vs Quebec do the Statsny brothers pull through? Idk.

So if that is the case we are talking about Edmonton, Quebec, Vancouver, Chicago, Rangers, Pittsburgh. I am very cautious about saying the Oilers win, even with those remaining teams. First off, in Game 3 vs. the Kings they blow a 5-0 third period lead. Wet behind the ears or not, that's horrendous. Then, by the grace of God they still manage to play at home in a final rubber match in Game 5, and they lose 7-4 against the Kings in that game. Every single game they lost to the Kings that series was disastrous (the other was 10-8) and the games they won were in overtime and a slim 3-2 win in Game 4. So they were all over the place when the chips were down back then. I think the Oilers became the OILERS after 1982, and then especially 1983 after getting humbled by the Isles. So if they are still the "stay out until 4am" youthful Oilers, then who wins the Cup?

Honestly, the best team left is probably Quebec. They are over .500. They scored a ton of goals that year, they had a lot of depth up front, lots of scorers. But the problem is their defense is bad. Should Mario Marois be your best defenseman? Is there a team that ever won a Cup with a worse top d-man than that? Or is Dan Bouchard a Cup winning goalie? He was 4th in Vezina voting that year. For what it is worth Quebec was 0-3 against the Penguins that year.

Or is it the Rangers? They had the most points with 92 of the remaining ones. I just never liked the Rangers teams of that era, all the way up until the early 1990s. They were always so non-descript. Nothing special about them. Herb Brooks was coaching them at this time, if that helps, which it doesn't hurt. We are talking about Eddie Mio or Steve Weeks as a Cup winning goalie. Hmmm. Mike Rogers as the leading scorer? Honestly, I like my chances with Quebec a lot better. At least you can somewhat envision them winning in an upset riddled year like 1982. Peter Stastny and Michel Goulet winning a Cup with the other Stastny brothers and Dale Hunter? Sure, that isn't unrealistic.

In fact, I like Chicago winning it after Quebec on those non-Oiler remaining teams over the rest of them. At least they had Denis Savard, a Norris winner in Doug Wilson that year and perhaps Tony Esposito has some magic left in net.

Or........................is this the year the Oilers catch a break and get past L.A. and then learn a lot and grow up a lot and start their dynasty a little earlier? That's possible too. So for me it is Quebec, Edmonton or Chicago winning that Cup. I can't see a reason how any of the rest do it.
 

jcs0218

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If the Islanders lose in 1982 to the Penguins, they probably start a rebuild/retool where a lot of older players are shipped out. If this scenario were to happen, the Islanders dynasty never happens. They become more comparable to the mid-70s Flyers.

The Oilers are probably the favourite to win the Stanley Cup if they get past the Kings. They had 111 points that year. Gretzky was going to be difficult to beat 4 games out of 7. The Oilers could have put together a 4 Stanley Cups in a row if they get past the Kings and don't have to face the Islanders in 1982.
 

LeBlondeDemon10

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What if Montreal had beaten Quebec while NYI and Edmonton lose? Montreal still had Boston's number then. They had a very solid defense. Lafleur was healthy if not spectacular anymore. Carbonneau, Gainey and Nilan were the shutdown line. I like them against the Rangers. I like them more the deeper they go.
 

Big Phil

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What if Montreal had beaten Quebec while NYI and Edmonton lose? Montreal still had Boston's number then. They had a very solid defense. Lafleur was healthy if not spectacular anymore. Carbonneau, Gainey and Nilan were the shutdown line. I like them against the Rangers. I like them more the deeper they go.

Funny you say that. I've often mentioned on here that during the Pens/Isles elimination Game 5 there was an announcement that came on in the 3rd period when the Isles were still trailing. It said that Quebec had eliminated Montreal. The crowd at Nassau cheered loudly. Imagine, you have just won two Cups in a row, led the NHL in points and there is still a bit of a relief that you didn't have to play Montreal - at least from the fans. That shows you just how respected Montreal was back then.

I too think they win the Cup with the Isles and Oilers eliminated had they moved on. It was a very controversial goal that got them eliminated too. Watch:


This is one of the quickest overtime goals in NHL playoff history. The strange thing is, look at all of the Habs players on here. The players on the ice were on defense Langway and Engblom. Up front Gainey, Jarvis and Mark Hunter. The thing I don't understand was how were such great defensive players caught up the ice so badly and then why did Langway play poorly on that two-on-one? That was strange for Gainey especially. Even when the puck goes wide you figure at least there is some support. Not so. Hunter sort of has his back turned on the play, Langway gets totally taken out of the play and Engblom for a defenseman and a guy who led the NHL in plus minus that year takes forever to get back up ice. That's why there were two legitimate scoring chances by the Nords with little resistance.

Anyway, this team still could have won the Cup in 1982. They don't beat the Islanders, they just don't have the game breakers for it, but without them and the Oilers this is your clear favourite. They still had Robinson, Gainey, Shutt, Lafleur, Larouche, Jarvis, Tremblay, Napier and others from the dynasty years. Langway was definitely on the cusp of greatness as well. All of that could make up for the fact that Rick Wamsley was their starter and Bob Berry was the coach.
 
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The Panther

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1981-82 Canadiens were crazy good. Noticeably better than the season prior.

+137 goal differential, and they were the #1 best defensive team of the entire 1980s.

1981-82 was the single highest-scoring season of the modern NHL era, and yet the Habs' defence that season was as good as the average NHL club in 2019. And they scored 360 goals!

No doubt in my mind they would take down Edmonton, for example, if both had progressed to the Finals. And Montreal vs. Vancouver would have been a sweep.
 
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CrosbyIsKing87

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1981-82 Canadiens were crazy good. Noticeably better than the season prior.
+137 goal differential, and they were the #1 best defensive team of the entire 1980s.
1981-82 was the single highest-scoring season of the modern NHL era, and yet the Habs' defence that season was as good as the average NHL club in 2019. And they scored 360 goals!

That is damn impressive. More so defensively than offensively. If the Penguins had won that game 5 then I have little doubt that they would have lost to the Rangers in the next round. Teams that pull off that kind of an upset don't often have another one up their sleeve. Although Vancouver went all the way to the final. If the Oilers had advanced who knows? But the fact that they were giving up the goals they did in that LA series tells me that they were not a playoff seasoned team. They weren't ready to go all the way. Those heartbreaking losses teach players a lot and pay off later on. Good example: The Penguins were a young, high scoring team in 1989 but didn't have much experience at all. The Flyers knocked them off after being down 3-2 in the series and getting embarrassed 10-7 in game 5. Philly bore down and won two tight games, including game 7 in Pittsburgh. Without learning that lesson the Pens don't win the Cup in 91. Maybe same for New Jersey's heartbreaker to the Rangers in 94. Tough losses give players a lot of motivation for the next season.
 
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