1981 Canada Cup Final: Canada's Most Embarrassing International Loss?

[Peter25]

They trained together eleven months out of the year

How is this possible when the national team consisted of players from four or five different club teams?

 

[Jacques Trap*]

How is this possible when the national team consisted of players from four or five different club teams?

80% of the national team consisted of Central Red Army players. At the time, if you played for any team in the Soviet Union, but were destined for the national team, chances were you would also end up on Red Army as Tikhonav pulled players from every team at will.

 

[Theokritos]

For the record, the Soviet forward lines in the 1981 Canada Cup were:

Krutov (CSKA), Larionov (CSKA), Makarov (CSKA)
I don't know when exactly Makarov and Krutov started playing together on a regular basis, but in the 1981 World Championship the two young wingers formed one line with veteran center Vladimir Petrov. Larionov on the other hand only joined CSKA at the end of that season. The Canada Cup 81 was actually the first tournament that saw the line Krutov - Larionov - Makarov in action.

Kapustin (Spartak), Shepelev (Spartak), Shalimov (Spartak)
Shepelev joined Spartak in 1979, Kapustin in 1980. On the national team, the three formed a line since the 1981 World Championship.

Khomutov (CSKA), Zhluktov (CSKA), Skvortsov (Torpedo Gorky)
Zhlutkov centering Skvortsov (who never played for CSKA) and rookie Khomutov: this line was also launched in the 1981 World Championship.

Drozdetsky (CSKA), Golikov (Dinamo), Maltsev (Dinamo)
Inaugurated in the 1981 World Championship as well. Drozdetsky and Golikov however had already played together in the national team occasionally. I don't know about Maltsev and Golikov at Dinamo Moscow.

Conclusion:
The claim that the Soviets trained together eleven months a year is, at least related to the 1981 Canada Cup, not true. Six months prior to the tournament, three of the four Soviet forward lines did not even exist as lines. That said, it's undeniable that the Soviets took much more preparation time than the Canadians and that several of their players trained and played together for considerable periods of time, which was an important advantage over the Canadians.

The players at CSKA Moscow did train together for 10-11 months a year, but it's not like CSKA Moscow and the national team were identical. CSKA had the priviledge to recruit many top players, that's a fact. Therefore an overproportional number of its players was on the roster of the national team, that's also a fact. And it's undeniable that this constellation favoured the Soviets in their matchups with any selection of NHL stars. But in spite of this disadvantage, Hockey Canada's teams where generally able to deal with the Soviets. Controversial refereeing aside, Canada's superior depth is indisputable (and undisputed!) All the more credit to the Soviets for their victory in 1981.

 

[old time hockey4]

For the record, the Soviet forward lines in the 1981 Canada Cup were:

Krutov (CSKA), Larionov (CSKA), Makarov (CSKA)
I don't know when exactly Makarov and Krutov started playing together on a regular basis, but in the 1981 World Championship the two young wingers formed one line with veteran center Vladimir Petrov. Larionov on the other hand only joined CSKA at the end of that season. The Canada Cup 81 was actually the first tournament that saw the line Krutov - Larionov - Makarov in action.

Kapustin (Spartak), Shepelev (Spartak), Shalimov (Spartak)
Shepelev joined Spartak in 1979, Kapustin in 1980. On the national team, the three formed a line since the 1981 World Championship.

Khomutov (CSKA), Zhluktov (CSKA), Skvortsov (Torpedo Gorky)
Skvortsov
Zhlutkov centering Skvortsov (who never played for CSKA) and rookie Khomutov: this line was also launched in the 1981 World Championship.

Drozdetsky (CSKA), Golikov (Dinamo), Maltsev (Dinamo)
Inaugurated in the 1981 World Championship as well. Drozdetsky and Golikov however had already played together in the national team occasionally. I don't know about Maltsev and Golikov at Dinamo Moscow.

Conclusion:
The claim that the Soviets trained together eleven months a year is, at least related to the 1981 Canada Cup, not true. Six months prior to the tournament, three of the four Soviet forward lines did not even exist as lines. That said, it's undeniable that the Soviets took much more preparation time than the Canadians and that several of their players trained and played together for considerable periods of time, which was an important advantage over the Canadians.

The players at CSKA Moscow did train together for 10-11 months a year, but it's not like CSKA Moscow and the national team were identical. CSKA had the priviledge to recruit many top players, that's a fact. Therefore an overproportional number of its players was on the roster of the national team, that's also a fact. And it's undeniable that this constellation favoured the Soviets in their matchups with any selection of NHL stars. But in spite of this disadvantage, Hockey Canada's teams where generally able to deal with the Soviets. Controversial refereeing aside, Canada's superior depth is indisputable (and undisputed!) All the more credit to the Soviets for their victory in 1981.

Well to be fair everyone but Skvortsov that you stated there was playing for a Moscow club, it's not that hard to have national team training when everyone except one guy lives in the same city.

 

[VMBM]

80% of the national team consisted of Central Red Army players. At the time, if you played for any team in the Soviet Union, but were destined for the national team, chances were you would also end up on Red Army as Tikhonav pulled players from every team at will.

This is simply not true. Show me one Soviet national team in history, where 80 % of the players were CSKA players.

You can't, because there just isn't such a team. You might find a team that had 55-60 % of its players playing for the Red Army team (though I'm not so sure even about that one), but 80 %? Forget it.

Boy, does this CSKA thing always get exaggerated. No one is disputing the fact that CSKA had most of the BEST players and formed the core of the national team, but...

Edit:
Well, Theokritos sort of covered it (the forwards and their clubs on the 1981 CC team). That applies to defensemen as well, usually about 50 % of them played for CSKA.

 

[Nedved1*]

Thank you for the highlights of that tourney. I barely remember it now. Glad I missed it.

 

[nutbar]

Was the team too old?

I don't think so. Lafleur was only 29, Dionne was 30. And the Islander stars (Bossy, Trottier, Gilles, Goring, Potvin) were all in their prime of course.

It certainly didn't help that Perrault, Canada's best player in the tournament, got injured. Or that Randy Carlyle, who won the Norris that year, wasn't picked.

Also I have no idea why Ron Duguay was on that team.

 

[canucksfan]

I don't think so. Lafleur was only 29, Dionne was 30. And the Islander stars (Bossy, Trottier, Gilles, Goring, Potvin) were all in their prime of course.

It certainly didn't help that Perrault, Canada's best player in the tournament, got injured. Or that Randy Carlyle, who won the Norris that year, wasn't picked.

Also I have no idea why Ron Duguay was on that team.

Had to be his hair

 

[Merya]

The Soviets in this era were at thier peak.

They trained together eleven months out of the year, and would be difficult to handle for any all star team, in any era.

Bit of a myth/misunderstanding. Only CZKA (red army team) trained together such extreme periods. Granted it made half of the team, but still.

 

[EpochLink]

Mike Liut was the goaltender, who had a pretty good year with the Blues.
Sort of got the heat after that loss.

 

[cam0426]

Other choices

I know 1954 was mentioned but it was massive. The first time Canada ever plays the Soviets and they lose 7-2. The following year Foster Hewit skipped some Maple Leaf games to travel to Germany to broadcast the Canada/Soviet gold medal game. It was that big.

Also how about Canada losing to the US in the 1960 Olympics?

Craig

 

[Vladsky]

80% of the national team consisted of Central Red Army players.

This is simply not true. While CSKA was the indisputable best Soviet club team since mid-70s, they never combined for more than 50-60% of total lineup (at best).

For example in '84 CC lineup there were four distinct forward lines representing four different clubs (CSKA, Spartak, Dynamo and Torpedo Gorky). It was only towards the late 80s that CSKA became over-represented in the national squad, but this of course was a logical outcome of Tikhonov's player poaching strategies, and pressure to keep the national team together as one squad.

And, for the record, I find it hard to believe the "11 months a year training" urban legend. First, this was never ever the case with the non-Red Army teams. Second, as the Red Army players were, technically speaking, in the military, they were entitled to 45-60 days off per year at least.

Given the national league schedule (~40 games, no postseason), and the timing of the WCs (late April/early May), I find it hard to believe that even Red Army players were practicing between May and July. Could be different, though, in CC years, but nevertheless.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Well, regardless of the exact specifics, it's obvious that the Soviet teams were more used to each other and were more of a proper team than the NHL All-Star teams Canada created for these tournaments.

For one, the core was with one club team but even the others just played more hockey together than the Canadian NHLers. The Soviets had the World Champs, the Isvestia tournament and just regular international games to play together, Canada's teams at those had nothing to do with the NHL outfits at the Canada Cup.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

How about the first game of the Summit Series? Canada expected a cakewalk and got defeated 3-7. In 1981, everyone was aware that the Soviets were considerable opponents, but in 1972 they were viewed as amateurs who were asking for a lesson.

For me, game one of the Summit Series was the most shocking. No one in North America expected the Russians to even be in the game, let alone slap the Canadians silly. Especially after Espo opened the scoring 30 seconds in and Canada led 2-0 after 6 minutes.

 

[FiveForDrawingBlood]

Do you think the 1981 Canada Cup Final where the Soviet Union defeated Canada 8-1 was the most embarrassing loss for Canada in international hockey history?

That was pretty bad for sure

 

[Blades of Glory]

Losing to the Soviets can hardly be called more embarrassing than being shut out by Switzerland.

 

[Vladsky]

For one, the core was with one club team but even the others just played more hockey together than the Canadian NHLers. The Soviets had the World Champs, the Isvestia tournament and just regular international games to play together, Canada's teams at those had nothing to do with the NHL outfits at the Canada Cup.

Well in the 1981 Soviet team only the first two lines were taken intact from their respective clubs (Red Army and Spartak). However, both units were only 1 year old at the time, and had played together 55-60 games at most.

Team Canada, on the other hand, had the Trio Grande, that had four 100-game seasons under their belts playing as a unit.

 

[McXLNC97]

I'd say the Gold Medal game at this years WJC has to be right up there amongst embarrassing moments. 3-0 lead in the 3rd period and they lose.

 

[Zine]

How is losing to Soviets/Russia (at any level) an embarrassment?

 

[JackSlater]

How is losing to Soviets/Russia (at any level) an embarrassment?

When you would have needed seven more goals just to force overtime.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Here are the goals that Liut gave up

Can this game be found on DVD? I have the 1987 final series and the 2004 final already.

 

[RorschachWJK]

I remember that Fetisov said they heard about Kharlamov's accident and death just before the game. So they decided to take this game for him. That probably played some role in such result.

Things like this sometimes play a bigger role than anything else. Tremendous inner motivation can change everything.

 

[MS]

The 1981 game is probably the biggest defensive capitulation by a Canadian team in history. The way Liut has been scapegoated for that game - to the point where it's considered one of the defining moments of his career - is so unfair it's unreal.

Liut was completely, utterly abandoned in that game as a vastly superior team (maybe the best one the USSR ever assembled) tore Canada to shreds. No goalie in the world could have prevented a blowout in that game, and the defensive effort of some of the Canadian players (Guy Lafleur for one) was pathetic.

Things like this sometimes play a bigger role than anything else. Tremendous inner motivation can change everything.

That was also the first major international tournament after the 1980 Olympic failure for Russia, so that was probably a motivating factor as well. No screwing around in important games this time.

 

[Big Phil]

Losing to the Soviets can hardly be called more embarrassing than being shut out by Switzerland.

I honestly can't remember swearing as often as I did in my life during that game. How can Paul Dipietro score two goals on a team full of NHL stars? 2006 was an embarassment and I am still utterly ashamed of that team to this day.

The 1981 game is probably the biggest defensive capitulation by a Canadian team in history. The way Liut has been scapegoated for that game - to the point where it's considered one of the defining moments of his career - is so unfair it's unreal.

Liut was completely, utterly abandoned in that game as a vastly superior team (maybe the best one the USSR ever assembled) tore Canada to shreds. No goalie in the world could have prevented a blowout in that game, and the defensive effort of some of the Canadian players (Guy Lafleur for one) was pathetic.

True, Liut does get a lot of flack for that game but he does deserve some blame as well. It's true the likes of Potvin, Lafleur and even Gretzky had bad games (ironically Gillies scored the only goal). But Liut does need to shoulder some of the blame there because he didn't make some critical saves when he should have as well. He shouldn't be blamed as much as he is where it dominates his entire reputation but needless to say Liut didn't play well that game.

 

[cam042686]

"Nobody told us!" Phil Esposito

I think that partly translates to "nobody listened". Also, I believe there was some fairly misleading scouting report - based on one game or something. Ken Dryden, for one, should've known, as he was a (backup) goalie for Canadian teams in some international tournaments in the late 1960s and saw the Russians play many times. Maybe USSR improved a bit during the 2-3 years, but nevertheless, you'd think Dryden gave at least some sort of warning.

Harry Sinden and John Ferguson made the decison not to scout the Soviets properly. Why didn't they speak to Father David Bauer who had run the "Nats" in the 1960's? How about talking to Murray Williamson who coached Team USA in the 1972 Olympics? He could have given them a detailed scouting report on the Soviets. Or how about Billy Harris (who coached Team Canada 74?) Harris was Sweden's coach in the 1971 and 72 WC's and 72 Olympics. He also played for Canada in the 1969 WC's. There probably wasn't a Canadian who knew the Soviets better than Billy Harris. (He actually predicted the Soviets would win the series and was lambasted in the media for saying that.) No calls were made to Billy as of course only the NHL knew anything about playing hockey.

Craig Wallace