Canadiens1958
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You gave a partial answer. Like skater positions,goalies cluster to certain teams. Bower / Sawchuk, Giacomin / Villemure, Fuhr / Moog, etc. Giacomin a win did not an SC.
Split workloads creates split credits.
1980's—Was talent really at its weakest?
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You gave a partial answer. Like skater positions,goalies cluster to certain teams. Bower / Sawchuk, Giacomin / Villemure, Fuhr / Moog, etc. Giacomin a win did not an SC.
Split workloads creates split credits.
Mechanics- Go butterfly, don't move too much and let the puck hit your equipment.
I absolutely can and will say 100% that goaltending required more talent before the mid 90's.
vadim sharifijanov
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Canadiens1958
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Not since the mask and two goalie system took over.
vadim sharifijanov
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Absolutely not.
Wayne, Mario, Kurri, Coffey, Bourque, Hawerchuk, Potvin, Bossy, Yzerman, MacInnis, Francis, Dionne, Savard, Housley, Roy, etc. Some of the all-time greats dominated the 80's, including the two greatest offensive forwards of all-time.
Wayne, Mario, Kurri, Coffey, Bourque, Hawerchuk, Potvin, Bossy, Yzerman, MacInnis, Francis, Dionne, Savard, Housley, Roy, etc. Some of the all-time greats dominated the 80's, including the two greatest offensive forwards of all-time.
tony d
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Nope. You had some great talents in the 80's especially the best ever in Gretzky. The 80's were no different than any other decade in terms of talent.
Mike Gartner is a perennial 20 goal scorer, hardly going to tear anything up in any period. They backcheck harder in today's game, btw.
Uhhh.... dude, Mike Gartner's career average goals-per-season was 37 (median was 38 and mode was 35). He still scored 32 goals in '96-'97, at the beginning of the "dead-puck era", at age 37. In 19 NHL seasons he had two with less than 20 goals: the lockout-shortened '94-'95 season, and his last in '97-'98 (12 G in each). Ignoring those two seasons the next lowest he ever had was that 32-goal season in '96-'97. He wasn't a "perennial 20 goal scorer", he was a perennial 35-40 goal scorer.
Even adjusted for the era he played in Mike Gartner was one of the most consistent goal-scorers of all time. You'd have to be daft to think otherwise.
Even adjusted for the era he played in Mike Gartner was one of the most consistent goal-scorers of all time. You'd have to be daft to think otherwise.
It is odd to call 80s talent low when a lot of those stars dominated the 90s too.
The Panther
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Indeed. Some of them were still going strong into the 2000s, for that matter: Mario Lemieux, Al MacInnis, Gary Roberts, Brett Hull, Luc Robitaille, Joe Sakic...
Jets4Life
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The clubs of the 80s had far more talent than the pro teams of the 70s. During the mid 70s, in particular, there were 32 pro hockey clubs in North America for a couple of seasons (NHL/WHA). When you consider that only a select few Scandinavians, and virtually nobody from Communist countries played hockey in North America, it is even more pronounced.
By 1979-80, the amount of teams dropped to 21, and during the 80's, more and more Europeans came over to North America to play, and there was an American hockey boom after the 1980 Olympics. The percentage of Canadians dropped from 91% in the mid 70s, to 84% during the 79-80 season, and finally down to 74% in 1989-90. The talent pool was getting stronger and stronger, as the decade wore on, as more and more Americans, Scandinavians, and Czechs were available. Even Russians started to defect to the NHL in 1988.
By 1979-80, the amount of teams dropped to 21, and during the 80's, more and more Europeans came over to North America to play, and there was an American hockey boom after the 1980 Olympics. The percentage of Canadians dropped from 91% in the mid 70s, to 84% during the 79-80 season, and finally down to 74% in 1989-90. The talent pool was getting stronger and stronger, as the decade wore on, as more and more Americans, Scandinavians, and Czechs were available. Even Russians started to defect to the NHL in 1988.
Nobody played D. Hell, goalies were so bad they shouldn't have even suited up.
I think you've broken it down quite nicely here.
To me even the difference between the early 80's and late 80's/early 90's was quite large due to similar reasons. The quality of hockey was heightened and it's quite obvious from just going back and watching high level games.
SealsFan
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There's great talent in every era but I feel the lower end of talent was at its lowest in the 70's... as much as I hate to say that because that's what I grew up watching and it's my favorite era (because I'm a weirdo who is fascinated with really bad teams, expansion teams, and there was plenty of them in the 70's). Watch any game videos from the 70's that feature lower tier teams and you see guys skating around like chickens with no heads, passes going awry, defenders getting tangled in their own feet, etc.
The Panther
Registered User
That's fairly idiotic, to say only the least.
In 1986-87, 88% of shots on goal were stopped by goaltenders.
In 2017-18, 91.2% of shots on goal were stopped by goaltenders.
It's a difference, but in the course of watching many games in each season would be a negligible difference to many viewers.
Do you think if we give today's average goalies the weight and size of equipment in 1986-87 that they won't stop 3% fewer shots? Probably more like 10%.
I think it's fairly idiotic to watch the game played in the 80's and think it's comparable to today's game, to say the least. If you insert a goalie from the 80's into today's game we would see 15+ goals per game, in my opinion.
Do they get new equipment? If so I think we see a record number of shutouts in the 2018-19 season.
Not in this scenario.
I think if the 80's goalie's had the equipment used in today's game very few goals would have been scored.
Theokritos
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Not sure how you can reconcile these two statements.
I watched the goals scored and the goalies were terrible. (due to the size of their pads)
I didn't realize you couldn't have reached this conclusion on your own without me spelling it out.
Theokritos
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In other words: The goalies actually weren't terrible, but their equipment was subpar compared to nowadays.
He got 50 goals once-hardly puts him in any conversation with Gretzky, Bossy, Kurri, etc.
Guys like Tom Barrasso, Patrick Roy, and Mike Vernon became stars in the 1980s. They won Cups in the 1990s and their numbers improved with better defenses in front of them. When you play a more wide-open game like the Flyers and Pens did in 2012(?) all of a sudden the modern super-goalies can't stop beach balls.
