Prospect Info: #191, Otto Kivenmaki

[Killerjas]

After having a 1PPG for Assat's U20 team in the Finnish youth league, Otto was selected 191st overall in the 2018 NHL Entry draft. This season (as most people predicted), Otto has made his debut for Assat's senior team.

After 5 games with just 1 point, he is sent down to the U20 team. He is small (172 cm, 5 feet 8 inches) but he is a great playmaker. Looking forward to see how he progresses.

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[Henkka]

I thought there was an old thread about him, but didn't find anything.

 

[A Few Good Males]

What's the deal with him getting sent down? I know the Assat Liiga squad is really weak - but do we think he will get called back up? If the team is struggling that bad, is it better for him to stay with the junior squad? I don't know much about the Finnish hockey leagues.

Selfishly I was hoping he would get some significant ice time in Liiga which would increase his chances of making the WJC team

 

[lilidk]

I don't care how tall he is . there were plenty great 5'8" players

 

[Killerjas]

I thought there was an old thread about him, but didn't find anything.

I looked everywhere, but I could not find anything. Otto deserves a thread however, I like this dude a lot, seems like a long term project.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I don't care how tall he is . there were plenty great 5'8" players

Quick, name ten!

 

[RedWingzz]

Quick, name ten!

Dionne, St.Louis, Fleury, Kariya, Gaudreau, Krug, Atkinson, Gionta, Verbeek, Ted Lindsay, Henri Richard, Yvan Cournoyer

 

[Lovonov]

7th Rounder playing pro right after getting drafted is pretty cool. Even if its 5 games. Seems he needs more seasoning but they gave him a hard look - he'll get back onto the pro circuit by Christmas granted he plays well in J20.

 

[lilidk]

Dionne, St.Louis, Fleury, Kariya, Gaudreau, Krug, Atkinson, Gionta, Verbeek, Ted Lindsay, Henri Richard, Yvan Cournoyer

You can add probably 2 best ever Russians Makarov, kharlamov

 

[lilidk]

Quick, name ten!

Top 10 Undersized NHL Players

 

[TCNorthstars]

Top 10 Undersized NHL Players

Oh come on Matt! There are only 4 guys on your list that are 5'8" and I wouldn't call any of them great.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Dionne, St.Louis, Fleury, Kariya, Gaudreau, Krug, Atkinson, Gionta, Verbeek, Ted Lindsay, Henri Richard, Yvan Cournoyer

I'll give you Dionne, St. Louis, Fleury, Lindsay, Richard, and Cournoyer.

Gaudreau, Kariya, Krug, and Verbeek are great but taller than 5'8". Especially Kariya at 5'11".

Atkinson and Gionta are not what I would call great.

 

[Invictus12]

I'll give you Dionne, St. Louis, Fleury, Lindsay, Richard, and Cournoyer.

Gaudreau, Kariya, Krug, and Verbeek are great but taller than 5'8". Especially Kariya at 5'11".

Atkinson and Gionta are not what I would call great.

Could be a brainfart on my part but, Kasparaitis and Rafalski were also pretty I think. From what I read, Gretzky was almost always the little guy playing against older players and always did great. Some guys find ways.

 

[ChadS]

Kivenmäki has been listed at 175cm/66kg recently so about 5'9/145. I think it was 5'8/137 prior to the draft.

His dad was 5'8/168, FWIW.

 

[Hinterland]

7th Rounder playing pro right after getting drafted is pretty cool. Even if its 5 games. Seems he needs more seasoning but they gave him a hard look - he'll get back onto the pro circuit by Christmas granted he plays well in J20.

Nothing special here. Tim Berni is a 2018 6th rounder and a regular for the NLA champion...he already was during the playoffs and when drafted. And he's a defender, not a forward. As a drafted player you better play pro hockey draft +1 if you stay in Europe. European junior leagues are bs...especially if we're not talking about Russia or Sweden. Waste of time.

 

[Killerjas]

He is playing again in the Liiga, too bad Assat is terrible, they are dead last.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Dionne, St.Louis, Fleury, Kariya, Gaudreau, Krug, Atkinson, Gionta, Verbeek, Ted Lindsay, Henri Richard, Yvan Cournoyer

Kariya is not 5'8"

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Kariya is not 5'8"

He was 5'10 until Stevens took his head off.

 

[Killerjas]

10 points in 27 Liiga games so far. Unfortunately no goals (yet).

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I don't care how tall he is . there were plenty great 5'8" players

Alex DeBrincat comes to mind.

 

[Hockey Know it all]

Nothing special here. Tim Berni is a 2018 6th rounder and a regular for the NLA champion...he already was during the playoffs and when drafted. And he's a defender, not a forward. As a drafted player you better play pro hockey draft +1 if you stay in Europe. European junior leagues are bs...especially if we're not talking about Russia or Sweden. Waste of time.

Eating your words yet?

He’s looked great in Liiga

 

[Hinterland]

Eating your words yet?

He’s looked great in Liiga

Why exactly? 2 goals and 15 points in 32 games in a league that nobody cares about anymore? That one goal recently was an embarassment for the whole league. Liiga was getting worse even before Jokerit left...it's a mess now. Scandinavian leagues are struggling mightily. Their teams are losing fans and money on a yearly basis and Kärpät is the worst Liiga team maybe in forever. Complete joke. They wouldn't even qualify for the playoffs in the VHL or NLB.

 

[Hockey Know it all]

Why exactly? 2 goals and 15 points in 32 games in a league that nobody cares about anymore? That one goal recently was an embarassment for the whole league. Liiga was getting worse even before Jokerit left...it's a mess now. Scandinavian leagues are struggling mightily. Their teams are losing fans and money on a yearly basis and Kärpät is the worst Liiga team maybe in forever. Complete joke. They wouldn't even qualify for the playoffs in the VHL or NLB.

So I’m assuming Kakko isn’t a high end prospect and a lock to go #2 overall?

 

[Hinterland]

So I’m assuming Kakko isn’t a high end prospect and a lock to go #2 overall?

I don't know man...but what I can tell you is that it became incredibly easy to score a lot of points in Finland. Teams don't have money so the level is dropping rapidly. Just look at Tolvanen who was unstoppable in Finland but is now struggling even at AHL level. Not saying that he's not a great prospect but at this point, I wouldn't hope for too much just because a certain player scored a few points in Finland...and Sweden isn't much better.

 

[Hockey Know it all]

I don't know man...but what I can tell you is that it became incredibly easy to score a lot of points in Finland. Teams don't have money so the level is dropping rapidly. Just look at Tolvanen who was unstoppable in Finland but is now struggling even at AHL level. Not saying that he's not a great prospect but at this point, I wouldn't hope for too much just because a certain player scored a few points in Finland...and Sweden isn't much better.

I agree with you.

Keep in mind, tolvanen played in the USHL, lit it up then went over to the KHL with Jokerit. But I definitely think your right.

With that being said, do you think Hughes is still #1?

I definitely do but when you go on most of the pages here(Jack Hughes, Kakko or the Jack HughesVSKappo Kakko) they are tearing into Hughes because of where he plays. which doesn’t make sense. The USHL is not far behind the CHL. I definitely think he would tear up the CHL had he decided to play with Mississauga in the O.