NHL Entry Draft #19 overall

[Deku]

I think most of my posts I mention that I prefer a tougher team & players like Abramov & Brannstrom & others are way too soft for my liking & I don't care how skilled they are. I like Brad Marchand & Gallagher but I don't see Abramov or Balcers being that kind of player at all, nor most of our small players with the exception of Pageau. Most small players are skilled perimeter players & I don't like perimeter players. I can't stand Nylander for example, IMO he's a perimeter figure skater & I'm told all the time how skilled he is but I don't want that kind of player on my team. Others have different preferences & I understand that, but that's not what I like in a hockey player & I have been quite consistent on this point.

I like guys who get their nose dirty, who separate players from the puck who have both size & skill, what's great about bigger players is that they already have NHL size. Smaller players than need to be much more skilled to make it & become one dimensional. I see very little value in a player like Abramov so I don't mind getting rid of them if that results in getting a player I want. It's great if someone else values them higher that's an advantage for us. I hope we won't be a small team, but I would also like to have a much tougher team & a number of out bigger players unfortunately are a little too soft given their size.

Your entire team doesn't need to be like that though. Brannstrom is so skilled, you can surround him with a bunch of bruisers if you want, but you don't just dump him to get more of them. You need at least a little bit of variety in your team. See Torey Krug on Boston.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Your entire team doesn't need to be like that though. Brannstrom is so skilled, you can surround him with a bunch of bruisers if you want, but you don't just dump him to get more of them. You need at least a little bit of variety in your team. See Torey Krug on Boston.

Or, you know, like 60% of the Tampa Bay Lightning who just won 62 games this year. The idea that would anyone trade Brannstrom for a ~20th overall pick is so bad it almost defies belief.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Not going to say having size is a bad thing, but when you look at players like Gretzky, Marner, Panarin, Point, Kucherov even Lafleur, Lemaire, Dion , Bobby Clarke all smaller than average guys some were among the best ever you don't need it to be a great player or a good player.

And that is why it shouldn't be overly focused on when it comes to drafting players. There are also great players that are bigger like Lindros, Primeau, Shanahan, Tkachuk, LeClair, Pronger. Chara, etc. We don't want to pass on drafting those types either. Size is always great and if all things are equal in terms of speed, skating, skill, IQ, character then you always pick the bigger player. But the majority of the time a prospect with bigger size may not have the same speed, skating, skill, IQ or character of a player not as big.

Size is only one of the factors.

 

[benjiv1]

Drafting as Ottawa in a 4 Round Mock on the Mock Draft Board.

So far:

19- Alex Newhook
32- Brett Leason

Will look to take a D with my next pick, but was definitely happy to take Leason in the 2nd.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Well said.

I ran a simple correlation test on teams' average height (also did age and weight) and their regular season point totals in each of the last two years and there is no significant relationship between taller teams and successful teams in the NHL. Period. Good players are good players and they don't tend to be more successful the taller they are.

Theoretically a bigger team could be better though. All of those correlations and the assessments I made were based on historical data so the conditions could change moving forwards. There is a stronger focus on skill, speed and physical development at increasingly younger ages so over time bigger and more athletic players will likely become the norm.

But for the purpose of this argument there is a risk that drafting a bigger player means sacrificing some combination of skill, speed, iq or other relevant variables. even amongst bigger players a 6'2 forward who has an all around game and can but up 80 points is more useful than a 6'6 player that has an all around game but is slower and can only put up 20 points.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Drafting as Ottawa in a 4 Round Mock on the Mock Draft Board.

So far:

19- Alex Newhook
32- Brett Leason

Will look to take a D with my next pick, but was definitely happy to take Leason in the 2nd.

was looking at that today. Good job

 

[RAFI BOMB]

I think most of my posts I mention that I prefer a tougher team & players like Abramov & Brannstrom & others are way too soft for my liking & I don't care how skilled they are. I like Brad Marchand & Gallagher but I don't see Abramov or Balcers being that kind of player at all, nor most of our small players with the exception of Pageau. Most small players are skilled perimeter players & I don't like perimeter players. I can't stand Nylander for example, IMO he's a perimeter figure skater & I'm told all the time how skilled he is but I don't want that kind of player on my team. Others have different preferences & I understand that, but that's not what I like in a hockey player & I have been quite consistent on this point.

I like guys who get their nose dirty, who separate players from the puck who have both size & skill, what's great about bigger players is that they already have NHL size. Smaller players than need to be much more skilled to make it & become one dimensional. I see very little value in a player like Abramov so I don't mind getting rid of them if that results in getting a player I want. It's great if someone else values them higher that's an advantage for us. I hope we won't be a small team, but I would also like to have a much tougher team & a number of out bigger players unfortunately are a little too soft given their size.

It is my understanding that Abramov has a real edge to his game. He has some of those Marchand and Gallagher qualities. As for Balcers, I'm not a fan based on what I have seen in his NHL games. I think he is an NHL player but not a big impact player and a core piece. I would seriously consider trading him while his value is high.

I think the majority of us want to avoid drafting small players that are soft, one dimensional and play on the perimeter. There will only be a handful of posters that want those types. But if there is a smaller player available in the draft that competes hard, has skill and speed and plays a 200 foot game I wouldn't be so quick to pass on him. Sometimes it comes down to style of play. I would take a 5'8 or 5'9 player that is hyper competitive and plays an abrasive style of hockey over a 6'4 or 6'5 player that is as soft as a marshmallow. It is really difficult to teach a player to become physical and hard to play against. I can't think of one example of a bigger prospect that eventually developed a mean streak. Often we end up with a Colin Greening type who has the pshycial attributes to be a monster but can't seem to find a way to be a nightmare to play against. There are some players in this draft that have Marchand/Gallagher type qualities and they are a bit smaller. Depending on when they are available I would give them a serious look.

 

[Que]

Drafting as Ottawa in a 4 Round Mock on the Mock Draft Board.

So far:

19- Alex Newhook
32- Brett Leason

Will look to take a D with my next pick, but was definitely happy to take Leason in the 2nd.

If it plays out like that come draft day I’d be thrilled. The choice between Newhook and Seider? The struggle is real.

Also, McMichael available at 32. Wasn’t he a projected can’t miss to pick a few years ago? (Leason such a solid pick however)

 

[aligator]

It is my understanding that Abramov has a real edge to his game. He has some of those Marchand and Gallagher qualities. As for Balcers, I'm not a fan based on what I have seen in his NHL games. I think he is an NHL player but not a big impact player and a core piece. I would seriously consider trading him while his value is high.

I think the majority of us want to avoid drafting small players that are soft, one dimensional and play on the perimeter. There will only be a handful of posters that want those types. But if there is a smaller player available in the draft that competes hard, has skill and speed and plays a 200 foot game I wouldn't be so quick to pass on him. Sometimes it comes down to style of play. I would take a 5'8 or 5'9 player that is hyper competitive and plays an abrasive style of hockey over a 6'4 or 6'5 player that is as soft as a marshmallow. It is really difficult to teach a player to become physical and hard to play against. I can't think of one example of a bigger prospect that eventually developed a mean streak. Often we end up with a Colin Greening type who has the pshycial attributes to be a monster but can't seem to find a way to be a nightmare to play against. There are some players in this draft that have Marchand/Gallagher type qualities and they are a bit smaller. Depending on when they are available I would give them a serious look.

Speed and skill is where the game is headed. Successful players will continue to be smaller in size than in the past.

 

[SENATOR]

I would take a Russian player in a later round, they are always undervalued. Artemi Knyazev would be nice in the third round.

Andy Lehoux - Future Considerations - Dec. 7th: "He possesses some slick edges, great agility and an impressive top speed that helps him move around the ice at his will. He controls the action offensively for Chicoutimi with his great instincts, positioning and puck distribution. The Russian defenceman is very poised and he’s always moving to adapt to the play."

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Speed and skill is where the game is headed. Successful players will continue to be smaller in size than in the past.

No, they won't. Speed and skill is where the league is heading but that is only a positive for smaller players in the short term not the long term. What you are seeing in the league in regards to small players is temporary. The league adapted to a much faster style of hockey which helped smaller prospects and hurt larger ones. Bigger prospects hadn't focused as heavily on speed and skating and by the time the league started trending in that direction the window for those prospects to develop closed out quickly. Now it is well know that the league is trending towards a faster style with a heavy emphasis on skating ability. More kids at a younger age will focus on speed and skating and as a consequence bigger prospects will not be as lacking in those areas and will out compete smaller players.

It is a fallacy that you need to be small to be fast. The NFL is a good example of that. The fastest players are often defensive backs and receivers, and sometimes running backs and linebackers. On average they are all 6ft or taller and 200 lbs or heavier. If any of those athletes were taught how to properly skate and play hockey as kids they would be substantially faster than any sub 6ft player. Hockey as a sport has only recently started focusing on athletic development with the seriousness and attention is deserves. Over time we will likely see a lot more players will athleticism comparable to NFL receivers, defensive backs, running backs and linebackers. There may still be some smaller players but small players won't be the norm in the long run.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Drafting as Ottawa in a 4 Round Mock on the Mock Draft Board.

So far:

19- Alex Newhook
32- Brett Leason

Will look to take a D with my next pick, but was definitely happy to take Leason in the 2nd.

I would take Albin Grewe if he is available with the next pick. For D I would maybe go off the board and take Billy Constantinou.

 

[ThreePosts]

Drafting as Ottawa in a 4 Round Mock on the Mock Draft Board.

So far:

19- Alex Newhook
32- Brett Leason

Will look to take a D with my next pick, but was definitely happy to take Leason in the 2nd.

Benjiv, you should be hired as Pete's AGM immediately, I would be very happy if we came away with those two players with our first two picks.

Can't really believe Leason will make it out of the first round though, he seems like a player a few teams would trade up into the late 1st to take a flyer on given risk-reward.

 

[Stylizer1]

I say we draft Gus Chiggins.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I say we draft Gus Chiggins.

POHO candidate

 

[Micklebot]

I would take a Russian player in a later round, they are always undervalued. Artemi Knyazev would be nice in the third round.

Andy Lehoux - Future Considerations - Dec. 7th: "He possesses some slick edges, great agility and an impressive top speed that helps him move around the ice at his will. He controls the action offensively for Chicoutimi with his great instincts, positioning and puck distribution. The Russian defenceman is very poised and he’s always moving to adapt to the play."

Over the last 10 years, can you name a single russian born player drafted in the 3rd or later to have any impact in the NHL? If I were to pick a nationality, the Fins have Donskoi, Vatanen, Lindell, and Lethera that come to mind all drafted outside the top 2 rounds (and similar total players drafted over that period to russia). The reality is drafting based on nationality is typically a big mistake. Check your bias at the door and if a russian is the best player available, grab him, but don't target a nationality.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Over the last 10 years, can you name a single russian born player drafted in the 3rd or later to have any impact in the NHL? If I were to pick a nationality, the Fins have Donskoi, Vatanen, Lindell, and Lethera that come to mind all drafted outside the top 2 rounds (and similar total players drafted over that period to russia). The reality is drafting based on nationality is typically a big mistake. Check your bias at the door and if a russian is the best player available, grab him, but don't target a nationality.

Not many but .. Kaprizov could be over here for 2020 ...picked in the 5th round 2015... Definite Russian factor for players in the MHL/KHL. He is an elite talent if he ever comes over.

 

[Micklebot]

Not many but .. Kaprizov could be over here for 2020 ...picked in the 5th round 2015... Definite Russian factor for players in the MHL/KHL. He is an elite talent if he ever comes over.

there's the catch though. I have no issues picking a russian, I just think that targeting a russian is the wrong idea. Just be willing to pick them if they are the best option and you're good.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

there's the catch though. I have no issues picking a russian, I just think that targeting a russian is the wrong idea. Just be willing to pick them if they are the best option and you're good.

I doubt the Sens pick one that isn't already over here. Pretty sure they don't have any scouting there. If they are here they should be treated like any other player being ranked ..etc.

 

[JungleBeat]

Over the last 10 years, can you name a single russian born player drafted in the 3rd or later to have any impact in the NHL? If I were to pick a nationality, the Fins have Donskoi, Vatanen, Lindell, and Lethera that come to mind all drafted outside the top 2 rounds (and similar total players drafted over that period to russia). The reality is drafting based on nationality is typically a big mistake. Check your bias at the door and if a russian is the best player available, grab him, but don't target a nationality.

Buchnevich

And soon to be Abramov

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Buchnevich

And soon to be Abramov

Kucherov was close 58th overall.

 

[Clayonator]

44th Pick
The Florida Panthers' second-round pick will go to the Ottawa Senators as the result of a trade on September 13, 2018 that sent Erik Karlsson and Francis Perron to San Jose in exchange for Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris, Rudolfs Balcers, a conditional first-round pick in 2019 or 2020, a conditional first-round pick in 2021, a conditional first-round pick no later than 2022 and this pick (being conditional at the time of the trade).[20] The condition – Ottawa will receive the higher of Florida or San Jose's second-round pick in 2019.[20] – was converted on March 26, 2019 when Florida was eliminated from the 2019 Stanley Cup playoffs ensuring that Florida would select higher than San Jose.[21]
San Jose previously acquired this pick as the result of a trade on June 19, 2018 that sent Mike Hoffman and a seventh-round pick in 2018 to Florida in exchange for Vegas' fourth-round pick in 2018, a fifth-round pick in 2018 and this pick.[22]

Been stated at great length already but had we just done the Hoffman trade with Florida directly and not dicked around by requiring a roster player we could have “squeezed” San Jose for their second (non conditional) as well, instead of acquiring Boedker who will likely return a 4th at the 2020 deadline.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

Benjiv, you should be hired as Pete's AGM immediately, I would be very happy if we came away with those two players with our first two picks.

Can't really believe Leason will make it out of the first round though, he seems like a player a few teams would trade up into the late 1st to take a flyer on given risk-reward.

Me too. And if Leason is available at 25, I'd consider trading one of the 2020 2nds along with 32OA to get him there. Kinda like what NYR gave up when we traded down with them from 22 to 26 and 48. Especially if we got our Dman at 19.

We have quantity in terms of forward prospects. I'd be super happy if Dorion started upgrading picks. I kinda hope we trade up from both 19 and 32 to take the guys we want.

 

[SensontheRush]

Here'd to hoping it stays at 19th overall

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

No, they won't. Speed and skill is where the league is heading but that is only a positive for smaller players in the short term not the long term. What you are seeing in the league in regards to small players is temporary. The league adapted to a much faster style of hockey which helped smaller prospects and hurt larger ones. Bigger prospects hadn't focused as heavily on speed and skating and by the time the league started trending in that direction the window for those prospects to develop closed out quickly. Now it is well know that the league is trending towards a faster style with a heavy emphasis on skating ability. More kids at a younger age will focus on speed and skating and as a consequence bigger prospects will not be as lacking in those areas and will out compete smaller players.

It is a fallacy that you need to be small to be fast. The NFL is a good example of that. The fastest players are often defensive backs and receivers, and sometimes running backs and linebackers. On average they are all 6ft or taller and 200 lbs or heavier. If any of those athletes were taught how to properly skate and play hockey as kids they would be substantially faster than any sub 6ft player. Hockey as a sport has only recently started focusing on athletic development with the seriousness and attention is deserves. Over time we will likely see a lot more players will athleticism comparable to NFL receivers, defensive backs, running backs and linebackers. There may still be some smaller players but small players won't be the norm in the long run.

But....you also have to look at where the league itself is going. It won't be long until virtually all fighting is gone. Soon afterwards, any hit to the head will be an automatic major and suspension.

While it's great to look at past trends and stats, it doesn't mean a whole lot when the NHL is breaking a new trail forward. We've already seen in the past couple of years, when a big body hits a little body - even if it's a textbook hit - it can and will be penalized because of the unintentional head contact. Big players are going to have an increasingly difficult time playing a physical game in the future, especially when some smaller players are getting more spots on the roster. It takes an incredibly special and cerebral player to have the awareness of a Chara to be able to hit reasonably clean when very tall.