Post-Game Talk: #19: Devils at FLYERS, Thursday, Nov. 15, 2018, 7:00 p.m. ET

[deadhead]

Eh, they were fine last night, good even... bad luck game where they outplayed the opposition clearly and had lots of good chances.

If they played like that every night they would win ~50 games a year... problem is that they don't play like that all the time!

Though still even during a good game... way too many passes back to the point and shoot on site after getting over blueline.

Devils took like ~1-2 shot attempts from the blue-line all game to the Flyers ~15-20!

Actually, it's not just the passes back to the point, it's the defensemen just standing there and shooting the puck into someone's pads.
Last year, Provorov would take the puck and attack the net and get good shots, and Ghost would maneuver to get clean shots on net.
Even Manning was aggressive on offense (sometimes to the point of being reckless).
This year for some reason they're far more immobile.
Of course, Folin can't shoot to save his life.
Funny thing, AMac was the one defenseman moving out there and got some good shots off, and there were rebounds to be had, but it was one of those nights when the bounces went the wrong way.

Sanheim was on the PK and showed why he's rarely on the PK, struggled around his net and was saved by Elliott.
He's getting better and better in the neutral and O-zone, even shot well last night, but is still an adventure in his D-zone, especially around the net area - get this boy into a strength program this offseason.

 

[JXC]

This cracks me up about many fans on this board.

When Hakstol gets asked a question about what happened on a conceded goal, & truthfully says there was a coverage mistake (without naming names), posters rail against him, claiming he “threw his players under the bus.”

When he gets asked if he thought the players were frustrated, & he says no, they played hard all game, posters rail against Hakstol claiming he’s being disingenuous.

It’s a perfect example of how the Hak hate is so strong that everything will be interpreted against him.

Again, I would like a different coach. I hate how the team has no identity, let alone having lost the Flyers identity. But it’s still humorous to see how everything gets twisted against Hakstol pretty much regardless of what he does.

Kind of like Hagg making two very good defensive plays on his shift before the Devils’ 2nd goal, going for a line change when the Flyers were in possession of the puck, & then getting blamed by some for “making a bad change” (with no acknowledgement of his good defensive plays) when Couturier inexplicably coughs it up at the offensive blueline, and even though Sanheim was on the right side of the puck when he came on the ice.

So much protecting of favorites & scapegoating of whipping boys. It’s a fascinating psychological study.

Perfection ^^^^

Imagine if that was Hagg putting the puck into his own net on a wraparound, the Hivemind would SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL like a pig!!!!!

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Once again, I’d like to just quickly complain that

HAGG IS ALWAYS OUT WITH THE TOP LINE

Hagg's 5v5 concurrent TOI last night:

Player	Shared TOI
Provorov	12:13
Couturier	8:55
Giroux	8:48
Konecny	8:48
Laughton	3:37
Simmonds	3:34
Folin	3:25
Weise	2:37
Lindblom	2:12
JVR	2:04
Weal	1:57
Patrick	1:49
NAK	1:28
Voracek	1:13
Sanheim	0:25
Gostisbehere	0:09

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Year to date, he's got a very high QoT, but also QoC. As always, I care far more about the former than the latter on this team because of the stark difference between the 1st line and everyone else. You do have to mentally adjust a little bit for how poor that line was to start the year this time.

Perfection ^^^^

Imagine if that was Hagg putting the puck into his own net on a wraparound, the Hivemind would SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL like a pig!!!!!

That's putting the puck into your own net? Seriously? That's like killing Hagg for flubbing that shot from the point in the 3rd. It's missing the point completely.

 

[deadhead]

I don't blame Sanheim for that goal, a more experienced D-man might have reacted a tad quicker and stopped it, but that would have been a great play. I blame him for a couple plays in the crease on the PK where he was basically a traffic cone and Elliott bailed him out. The stats support the eyeball, he's not good in front of his net and has no business being on the ice in defense first situations.

I think Hagg with Provorov is more about Provorov's development, with Hagg, Provorov becomes the primary puck carrier instead of deferring to Ghost, and I think they want him to develop that skill. Eventually he'll move back with Ghost, though once Myers/Friedman come up, and Morin is healthy, it could be Provorov/Friedman, Ghost/Myers or Morin/Ghost at times.

 

[Tripod]

Perfection ^^^^

Imagine if that was Hagg putting the puck into his own net on a wraparound, the Hivemind would SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL like a pig!!!!!

I blame our poor leader Giroux.

 

[Striiker]

Are all contrarians this lazy? Or do some at least try to make sense?

Ours just circle-jerk each other with imaginary flaws for the good players and constant defense of the terrible players.

It should be a mental red flag when you exclusively cry about the best players and defend the worst ones. A little self-awareness would go a long way.

Also gotta love the hypocrisy where the people who constantly claim to be objective are easily the most biased on the board.

 

[Tripod]

I don't blame Sanheim for that goal, a more experienced D-man might have reacted a tad quicker and stopped it, but that would have been a great play. I blame him for a couple plays in the crease on the PK where he was basically a traffic cone and Elliott bailed him out. The stats support the eyeball, he's not good in front of his net and has no business being on the ice in defense first situations.

I think Hagg with Provorov is more about Provorov's development, with Hagg, Provorov becomes the primary puck carrier instead of deferring to Ghost, and I think they want him to develop that skill. Eventually he'll move back with Ghost, though once Myers/Friedman come up, and Morin is healthy, it could be Provorov/Friedman, Ghost/Myers or Morin/Ghost at times.

Let's talk honest.

Provy took 2 crossovers toward C ice after the pass to Palms which put himself behind the play. He was never able to properly play D against Palms after that.
Sanheim did try to get to the post 1st to stop the wraparound. He got there, but Palms momentum/strength pushed past Sanheims stick.
Ideally, Sanheim had that split second advantage where he could have met Palms below the goal line stopping the play. But as you said, if he stops that goal using either way, it's a great play.

Now the PK you are talking about. The part you left out was that experienced D partner AMac who once again was a sliding starfish taking himself out of the play leading to the mismatch. Sanheim did lose site of the puck as it went behind him and Elliott saved the day.

Long term, hopefully Morin will be a PKing mainstay in our top 6 because we really do need a Dman who teams don't like playing against.

Provy Hagg
Morin Myers
...on the PK is fine with me long term. Just do the right thing and have Ghost and Sanheim as the PP Dmen for each pairing too!

 

[deadhead]

Year to date, he's got a very high QoT, but also QoC. As always, I care far more about the former than the latter on this team because of the stark difference between the 1st line and everyone else. You do have to mentally adjust a little bit for how poor that line was to start the year this time.

That's putting the puck into your own net? Seriously? That's like killing Hagg for flubbing that shot from the point in the 3rd. It's missing the point completely.

Problem this year is there isn't a stark difference between the 1st line and everyone else, you can try to blame it all on Provorov - Hagg, but the reality is the 1st line hasn't played well, the 2nd line is improving and the 3rd line has been a revelation even before JVR returning, and we may have a 4th line that can control play.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Problem this year is there isn't a stark difference between the 1st line and everyone else, you can try to blame it all on Provorov - Hagg, but the reality is the 1st line hasn't played well, the 2nd line is improving and the 3rd line has been a revelation even before JVR returning, and we may have a 4th line that can control play.

This is just mashing history together without looking at the details. The 1st line was absolutely terrible to start the year no matter which pair was chosen...but Hagg also wasn't deployed the same way. Even going beyond the obvious Provorov-Hagg not being a pair when the 1st line was at their nadir, let's look at how he was used:

Game 1: Largely matched with Lindblom/Patrick/Voracek. He played more with EVERY other line than G/C/K.
Game 2: Matched fairly evenly among all lines (2:40-4:01 range)
Game 3: Largely matched with Lindblom/Patrick/Konecny
Game 4: Matched fairly evenly with all Forwards minus Patrick and Raffl.
Game 5: Matched fairly evenly with all Forward lines.
Game 6: Overwhelmingly matched with Lindblom/Weal/Konecny.
Game 7: Matched fairly evenly with all Forward lines.

Game 8: Pairing changes made.

 

[Curufinwe]

Hagg is playing too much, but the team is f***ed with Hak in charge even if Hagg retired and Ghost and Sanheim started getting an extra 2-3 minutes per game.

 

[Curufinwe]

Kinkaid and the posts stole the game. Not much else to be said. It happens. Teams played a very competitive game. Flyers need to have more accurate shooting. Hitting Posts and missing wide were the margin of loss.

This is alternately a game we could have said Elliott stole.

This would be a sick playoff series. Teams are evenly matched.

Teams ranked in the 20s don't make the playoffs.

 

[deadhead]

The first line is scoring more, but they're still getting slaughtered on advanced metrics, they're not the same group right now that finished the second half of last season. I think they're asked to do too much, and yes, Giroux is limited physically, if you want him to remain as a top offensive player, you should ask less of him on defense.

I also think TK is a better fit with Lindblom - Patrick and should be moved back with them and Voracek to the first line, and play the two lines equal minutes - the 2nd line may struggle at first, but they have the talent to outgrow their hiccups.

They also need to replace Simmonds on the 3rd line, JVR can pass but he's not a puck carrier, and Simmonds is more of a forechecker and crease guy than anything else these days - so that's asking a lot of Weal or anyone else you put at 3C to carry that line.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Fire Hak or make trades you chicken ****.

Good at drafting and that’s it, awful Gm

Just wanna shout you out for caling the shutout about 4 minutes into the game.

 

[Adtar02]

I don't blame Sanheim for that goal, a more experienced D-man might have reacted a tad quicker and stopped it, but that would have been a great play. I blame him for a couple plays in the crease on the PK where he was basically a traffic cone and Elliott bailed him out. The stats support the eyeball, he's not good in front of his net and has no business being on the ice in defense first situations.

I think Hagg with Provorov is more about Provorov's development, with Hagg, Provorov becomes the primary puck carrier instead of deferring to Ghost, and I think they want him to develop that skill. Eventually he'll move back with Ghost, though once Myers/Friedman come up, and Morin is healthy, it could be Provorov/Friedman, Ghost/Myers or Morin/Ghost at times.

Yet game in and game out. Hagg takes more shots. As do all the rd. Where we have your worst dman. And rewatch that pk. Your assessment is so far from reality I can only assume the residual lsd still in your system is causing hallucinations

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The first line is scoring more, but they're still getting slaughtered on advanced metrics

Very good for the last 2 weeks -- since the loss in San Jose. What am I missing?

 

[Tripod]

Hagg is playing too much, but the team is ****ed with Hak in charge even if Hagg retired and Ghost and Sanheim started getting an extra 2-3 minutes per game.

To me, it all starts with Hextall now. He had the chance to fire Lappy when it's obvious to everyone that the PK has been broken for years.

 

[Adtar02]

Problem this year is there isn't a stark difference between the 1st line and everyone else, you can try to blame it all on Provorov - Hagg, but the reality is the 1st line hasn't played well, the 2nd line is improving and the 3rd line has been a revelation even before JVR returning, and we may have a 4th line that can control play.

They aren’t blaming it on hagg and provy. Again you all miss the point.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Are all contrarians this lazy? Or do some at least try to make sense?

Ours just circle-jerk each other with imaginary flaws for the good players and constant defense of the terrible players.

It should be a mental red flag when you exclusively cry about the best players and defend the worst ones. A little self-awareness would go a long way.

Also gotta love the hypocrisy where the people who constantly claim to be objective are easily the most biased on the board.

The Importance of Seeing the World in Shades of Grey

 

[Curufinwe]

To me, it all starts with Hextall now. He had the chance to fire Lappy when it's obvious to everyone that the PK has been broken for years.

Yes, Lappy should have been fired this summer. It's not like he had two years left at $5m. He's just a run of the mill assistant coach who should be disposable. Maybe the PK would still be bad, but at least you would have tried to improve it.

 

[Adtar02]

The Importance of Seeing the World in Shades of Grey

You should read that. It will help you be less biased

 

[deadhead]

Very good for the last 2 weeks -- since the loss in San Jose. What am I missing?

xGF, way below where they've been the last few years, and saw it again last night, too many mental mistakes and turnovers, probably pressing and trying to force plays, and since they're matched against the other top line, those mistakes are more costly.

This is confirmed by HDCF/CA,
Giroux 44/63
Couts 43/59
Hagg 56/58
They've improved the last two weeks, but they're still not good.
Last 10 games:
Giroux 22/26
Couts 22/24
Tk 22/16
Hagg 37/30
Provorov 36/28

We now have a fast, aggressive energy line, use them to harass other team's scoring lines at times and take pressure off Giroux/Couts and get them more balanced matchups.

 

[deadhead]

They aren’t blaming it on hagg and provy. Again you all miss the point.

You miss the point, the 1st line isn't carrying Hagg, and Hagg isn't the reason the 1st line has struggled, they were playing worse before being matched with Provorov - Hagg, though that was probably due to Couts coming back too soon from his MCL.

 

[JXC]

I blame our poor leader Giroux.

He’s not without blame.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

xGF, way below where they've been the last few years, and saw it again last night, too many mental mistakes and turnovers, probably pressing and trying to force plays, and since they're matched against the other top line, those mistakes are more costly.

But still good the last 2 weeks. They were AWFUL to start the year, which is what I thought we were talking about. I'm probably just confused at this point. Don't mind me.