19-20 Central Division

[flyfysher]

They are more skilled up front, but do tell how are they more skilled at the back? Or overall?

Have you seen what the kids can do on the back end? I suspect we view the season entirely differently. For me, the regular season is about making the PO's, hopefully early and with home ice. But aside from that, I expect the coach to come to know what he has in his players. To see how they respond, especially after facing adversity. So if the team goes on a losing streak prior to February, no I'm not happy but I won't pull the panic button early either. I believe the coach has to get to know his players. A team generally has to start making a push by February if not mid-January. There's change in personnel and it is going to change the locker room dynamics. So no, I'm not really measuring by the same yardstick you are in terms of opening day comparable. I think this team will not only make the POs but be capable of going farther than last season's version did. Fair enough?

 

[flyfysher]

Imagine comparing two players essentially traded for one another. How about this, the loss of Barrie will be far more noticeable on the defensive side,than the addition of Kadri on the offensive side.

You do understand that there are two scoring wingers on the same line whose scoring opportunities are facilitated by the 2C and not the Dman, right? And it's not just scoring but also a matter of puck possession as well. So no, your purported comparable is off.

 

[Ivan13]

Have you seen what the kids can do on the back end? I suspect we view the season entirely differently. For me, the regular season is about making the PO's, hopefully early and with home ice. But aside from that, I expect the coach to come to know what he has in his players. To see how they respond, especially after facing adversity. So if the team goes on a losing streak prior to February, no I'm not happy but I won't pull the panic button early either. I believe the coach has to get to know his players. A team generally has to start making a push by February if not mid-January. There's change in personnel and it is going to change the locker room dynamics. So no, I'm not really measuring by the same yardstick you are in terms of opening day comparable. I think this team will not only make the POs but be capable of going farther than last season's version did. Fair enough?

Yes. Am I supposed to pretend I think Cale will just waltz in a light the world on fire while taking on 1st pair responsibility? Are we supposed to think Girard will start scoring more just because Barrie was traded, and should we believe his shot does not completely suck? I'm one of the biggest if not the biggest fan of Byram here, who think we have a potential franchise D in him, but he should not be counted on for next season in any way shape or form. I won't waste my time with Zadorov. After them there's just a bunch of question marks, and like I said, our 2nd best healthy RHD is Nic Meloche, if that gives you optimism I don't think there's a point in continuing this discussion.

 

[Ivan13]

You do understand that there are two scoring wingers on the same line whose scoring opportunities are facilitated by the 2C and not the Dman, right? And it's not just scoring but also a matter of puck possession as well. So no, your purported comparable is off.

Dman don't facilitate scoring opportunities? What is this, NHL before Doug Harvey showed up? The puck possession line makes no sense.

 

[flyfysher]

Yes. Am I supposed to pretend I think Cale will just waltz in a light the world on fire while taking on 1st pair responsibility? Are we supposed to think Girard will start scoring more just because Barrie was traded, and should we believe his shot does not completely suck? I'm one of the biggest if not the biggest fan of Byram here, who think we have a potential franchise D in him, but he should not be counted on for next season in any way shape or form. I won't waste my time with Zadorov. After them there's just a bunch of question marks, and like I said, our 2nd best healthy RHD is Nic Meloche, if that gives you optimism I don't think there's a point in continuing this discussion.

Yes, I am a lot more sanguine about the Avs next year than you. It's a team and not just one position. We shall see.

Glad to see the Barrie trade repositioned the Avs in a far stronger place. That the trade pisses off some Barrie supporters, like you, is unfortunate. But you'll get over it. In the meantime, I get to say schadenfreude.

 

[flyfysher]

Dman don't facilitate scoring opportunities? What is this, NHL before Doug Harvey showed up? The puck possession line makes no sense.

Dmen facilitate scoring on the second line? Oh I noticed that happened on the Avs last year, constantly. Not!

 

[Ivan13]

Dmen facilitate scoring on the second line? Oh I noticed that happened on the Avs last year, constantly. Not!

Tyson Barrie produced the same no matter who he played with and drove the play. I posted these stats time and time again. So yeah, he helped the 2nd line quite a bit.

 

[Grigowski]

Preds and Avs got worse, rest got better.

What?

 

[flyfysher]

Tyson Barrie produced the same no matter who he played with and drove the play. I posted these stats time and time again. So yeah, he helped the 2nd line quite a bit.

Yeah, but that's the point no? That second line couldn't score to be effective and get the Avs into the SC even with Barrie. They already tried that. The Avs were primarily a one line team last year and they didn't get to the final. You want to keep trying the same thing until you get a different result? Listen, sorry if I'm getting snippy. It's the middle of the night here. I'm off to bed. Hope you can make your peace with TB's departure because it's a fait accompli. If not then I hope you have fun on the Maple Leafs board telling them what a bunch of yahoos some Avs fans like me are for wanting to trade Barrie. Don't worry, I can live with it. I'm glad it happened because the fact that Sakic pulled the trigger and made a push to get Panarin tells me that he recognizes the Avs are now in our SC window and he has positioned the team to take advantage of it. If it works, then we shouldn't need to acquire a FA rental later.

 

[Iceberg]

Why even compare a defenseman and a center?

Kadri >> Soderberg
Donskoi >> Ghetto/Brassard
Bellamare >> Bourque
Burakovsky =< Kerfoot (Honestly I don't know, Kerfoot kinda sucked)
Makar << Barrie
Connauton < Nemeth
Francouz < Varlamov

Makar should be an addition imo because he did not even play a single regular season game. We are worse on defense but that should be expected, unless Makar absolutely lights it up and Girard takes the next step.

Our offense has really improved from last season, we've got a real #2C, better depth and are better at faceoffs.

On the other hand, our defense is looking really suspect to start the season (If EJ is not ready), not because of a lack of talent, but mostly lack of experience. Still, we'll have a shit load of potential on D if Timmins can stay healthy.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

We are going to f***ing win this shit!

Colorado
St. Louis
Nashville
Dallas
Winnipeg
Chicago
Minnesota

Let’s go!

 

[S E P H]

Luckily for Ivan he's also a Habs fan who can jump our sinking ship any time he wants...

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I think we got a bit better. I think we can finish 2nd or 3rd in the division if:

1. our core stay relatively healthy
2. our goalies can give us around .920 SV%
3. Makar can reach 40-45 pts
4. Girard a step forward offensively and gets 35 pts.

People might say that's a lot of IFs but I think they are not a reach considering Gru's and Girard potential and what we saw from Makar in the playoffs.

Is it October yet?

 

[MarkT]

We're a better team on paper.

It's not just as simple as comparing player by player. Once EJ and Cole are healthy, there are no literally no players on the roster I don't want on the ice. Last season, we had several guys (Bork, Ghetto, Brassard, Kerfoot, Nemeth, Barrie) who could actually be negative influences on the game in certain situations. Bork, Ghetto and Brassard all killed offensive momentum and dragged their linemates down. Kerfoot wasted scoring opportunities and hurt us defensively. Nemeth iced the puck a lot and had exactly two offensive plays (rim it around the boards or weak shot on net), and Barrie had his well-documented defensive shortcomings. We basically removed all the teams' greatest weaknesses. Even if the guys we brought in underperform, it's still an overall improvement unless they end up having the same kinds of weaknesses as the guys we let go.

Honestly, the only way I could see us being worse is goaltending, and that's a massive unknown so I don't know how anyone can make definitive claims one way or another.

 

[tucker3434]

I’d peg us as 2-3 in the division with average goaltending.

 

[Pokecheque]

Don't sleep on Dallas. I think at least next year they will be a force, even though their new additions are of the old-and-slow variety. Pavelski is a huge upgrade on Spezza, and I'd say he's also an upgrade on Zuccarello as well. Sekera is a gamble for sure but if he pans out he gives them some added offensive punch from the back end, which is something they already had with Klingberg and Heiskanen. Add to that the goalie who SHOULD have won the Vezina and you have a very legit team. Also, I think the addition of John Stevens is a very sneaky and effective addition. That guy knows how to craft an offense, especially one that involves old guys who may have lost a step. He's one of the best, if not THE best, assistant coach in hockey (paraphrasing a quote from Friedman there).

St. Louis should be rolling along just fine, unless Binnington completely faceplants after his stellar rookie run. IMO the heavy favorites to win the division.

No idea on Winnipeg, I'm still not sure what hampered them so badly to begin with. Maurice is my odds-on favorite at the moment to be the first coach fired in 2019-20.

Nashville gonna Nashville. Duchene is an obvious upgrade on what they already had up the middle, but I still get the feeling this is a team in a very serious decline. I'm sure now that I've posted that they're gonna come storming out the gate. I think Lavi is also gonna get the axe, but not until after the season.

I think the Wylde could make waves, since Q is gone they have the best coach in the divsion IMO. Zuccarello will make them a better team, but I'm not sure by what degree. I think Gabby also stands a good chance of getting fired, and will likely be replaced by a leopard gecko in a terrarium.

And then there's the f***ing Blackhawks. I'm really, really curious to see what happens with a full season of Colliton behind the bench and a completely revamped blueline, not to mention their double-digit-millions goaltending tandem. At least I don't have to watch the Avs fail to score on Collin Dealio this year...unless Crawford gets hurt which is entirely possible.

My prediction...?

Blues
Avalanche
Stars
Blackhawks
Predators
Wild
Jets

That's a tough call...the only team that took serious steps back is Winnipeg. Every other team (that didn't win the Stanley Cup) in this division retooled in some fashion, and I think all of them that did so improved overall from the previous season.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Barrie >> Kadri
Kerfoot > Burakovsky
Soderberg > Donskoi
Bellamare is an upgrade on the 4th line
EJ just had shoulder surgery
Cole had double hip scope
We have one of the least proven goalie tandems in the league

Yes we added Makar, but unlike some, I won't lose my mind and proclaim him a top pairing D until he actually proves that. Our forwards rank improved by addition of Kadri, our defense got markedly worse since we lost our best D, and two more guys who started the season as top 4 D in EJ (no idea how he will look after shoulder surgery, but history isn't on our side) and Cole (lord have mercy). We will basically have an unproven rookie playing top pair minutes, and the 2nd best RHD on the team not counting EJ who might miss the start of the season is Nicolas Meloche or Connor Timmins. One guy couldn't make it out of the AHL and beat out Alt, the other missed year and a half with concussion.

Yeah... I think this is a pretty pessimistic view of the Avs.

I think you have to look at the group as a whole and if you think the TEAM is better. After checking out the lineups thread it looks pretty nice to me.

I get you want to see more from Makar, but I don’t remember many defensive mistakes from the playoffs. The rush when Meier overpowered him on the way to the net, but I can’t really remember many others. And his skating and vision were on full display.

Don’t discount the overall roster depth either. It’s the best we’ve had in a while.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I sort of want to see a direct comparison based on the point totals for additions and subtractions. Everyone since the TDL

Kadri and Makar are the only ones I'd project a bit. I don't have time tonight, but if someone else does not do it I will.

I bet we are actually pretty even.

AJ had a fairly complete list he tweeted out.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I sort of want to see a direct comparison based on the point totals for additions and subtractions. Everyone since the TDL

Kadri and Makar are the only ones I'd project a bit. I don't have time tonight, but if someone else does not do it I will.

I bet we are actually pretty even.

AJ had a fairly complete list he tweeted out.

If you were going from a pure point production standpoint, I feel like last years team would probably win out

 

[Gabe the Babe]

The division will come down to injuries imo. But I think it’ll be Colorado, Dallas, Nashville, and Chicago in the playoffs. One of Winnipeg, St. Louis, and Arizona in as well.

Nashville to me is a wait and see. Subban for Duchene is a lateral move to me.

Chicago is better again. Added Dach as well on top of what was listed.

Dallas to me is the scariest team in the Central outside of the Avs.

Winnipeg is obviously a lot worse.

Minnesota is old and for sure dead last imo.

St. Louis just won a cup. But their roster is meh to me nonetheless. Could see them missing the playoffs.

 

[Avsboy]

Pierre McGuire was on radio here in Canada and he truly loves the Avs. Kept calling them beastly. For some reason he think Jost is 2c and Kadri 3c, obviously wrong, but otherwise he gave good analysis I could nod my head to.