18/19 MGMT thread VIIII

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TruGr1t

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Jun 26, 2003
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The HNIC crew (Hrudey,Kypreous,Friedman,Burke) were talking about a great team atmosphere/chemistry around the Canucks

Burke recently took around 20 minutes to defend his buddy Peter Chiarelli and discuss how his work in Edmonton wasn't all that bad. It's the old boys club and Benning is a member. The only time I've heard talking heads outright criticize him is when he makes trades and signings.
 

Ryp37

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Nov 6, 2011
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Imagine wasting your time actually listening to a intermission crew, then doubling down and using it as a defence of your GM :laugh:
 
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Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
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Hiding under WTG's bed...
Don't you ever get sick of arguing about the same things and saying the same things all the time? Heck Sbisa had been gone for a season and a half. Let him RIP lol.

It's kind of interesting that on CDC there's this similiar approach (just a different point of view obviously); the reason why it's taken so long for Benning's work to show-up in the standings it that he was given nothing to work with, trash left by Gillis, etc., The old "but Gillis" excuse.
 
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Motte and Bailey

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Jun 21, 2017
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So, by ‘leaving it’ you’re not going to disclose the 25+ aliases you’ve previously been banned under here?

Like, you realize you coming to this board and pathetically trolling it with ridiculous posts and arguments and everyone laughing at you is actually embarrassing to Jim, right? In the same sort of way that Iraqi Information Minister guy was probably kinda embarrassing to Iraq?

Also, other Benning family members who were fanatically defending him on this board have outed themselves in the past, so that this is happening is proven fact, not a conspiracy.

You have evidence of 1 of Benning’s cousins making a few posts here several years ago. Not evidence of “family members” “fanatically defending him, ironic for you to mention what’s embarrassing - your exaggerations (putting it charitably) like this are embarrassing to you and your credibility to the objective poster here has taken a hit as a result.
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
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The HNIC crew (Hrudey,Kypreous,Friedman,Burke) were talking about a great team atmosphere/chemistry around the Canucks ...Roussel,Beagle)...Lately,the mainstream hockey media have been praising JB,and the work he has done...

Bad news for the longtime negative posters..but its not 2016 anymore.

Well I'm glad the boys are so close, I'm sure they'll have a lot of fun golfing together.
 

Johnny Canucker

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Jan 4, 2009
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Burke recently took around 20 minutes to defend his buddy Peter Chiarelli and discuss how his work in Edmonton wasn't all that bad. It's the old boys club and Benning is a member. The only time I've heard talking heads outright criticize him is when he makes trades and signings.

The whole NHL is an old boys club. You ever read the emails between Colin Campbell and Brian Burke? The league and a GM. What should be professional between supervisory board and a partipant of said board and they are calling each other nicknames “Burkie” and “Colie” and exchanging jabs that professionals shouldn’t in an email exchange. They all know each other. It’s been that way forever.
 

Drop the Sopel

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May 4, 2007
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Still, for however many times we disagreed, DTS was a good thinker. Some of his ideas were creative and he had a grasp of the game. Who knows, maybe he'll start posting again one day? I'd like to hear his thoughts on the Benning regime as it is now.

Sure, why not. I have read every post year for the last 3 years. Only fair to contribute something.

Benning has undoubtedly had a positive impact on the teams amateur scouting work. He came in touted as a guy that could revamp the scouting department ; and he did so, from day 1. Saw something in Judd Brackett early on and promoted him to the top of the staff. Major props for doing that with the youngest guy on your staff. Very un-Dinosaur like.

2014- Canucks found 5 NHL players with their first 5 picks. That just doesn't happen. Anywhere. We did it with what was arguably the least successful collection of scouts in the NHL at that time. I was disappointed with the Virtanen pick, but also remember how Linden and ownership were gushing over him before Benning was even hired. That said, he has to wear every pick.

2015- Finds a kid outside the top 20 that looks poised to be on his way to a 500 goal NHL career. Hobey Baker winner in the 5th rd that could be a core piece moving forward. Didn't have a 2nd rd pick - but turned it into a productive 2nd line forward in Sven Baertschi. Brisebois showing year over year improvements and still in the mix as a potential NHL regular too.

2016- Awful draft. Hated passing on Tkachuk and this one is 100% on Benning. Said he saw the knights live 14 times that year, so he deserves all the flack he gets for this pick. IMO the biggest mistake of his tenure.

2017- Makes the 2016 draft look like a one-off. Benning once again shows the knack for finding an elite talent in the 1st rd. 2nd time in 4 drafts - without a pick inside 5. Franchise altering move. Still like the collection behind Pettersson as well. For me, Kole Lind is probably our most underrated prospect.

2018- Early signs look great yet again. Liked swinging for the fences with Hughes and Woo/Madden are both tracking like 1st rd picks. A+ draft thus far.

Benning was billed as the guy that would turn around the scouting department and he has exceeded expectations 5 years in. Our picks collectively have tracked much better post draft than before he came in and overhauled the staff. Great body of work with the group he inherited.
_____________

Negotiating contacts- Don't know if there is a worse management team out there right now when it comes to negotiating contracts. I was completely dumbfounded with the Sbisa deal and couldn't wrap my head around how he got to those numbers with a #6 defenseman. It was a harbinger of things to come! Virtually every contract is coming in 10-25% higher than what looks like market value. Too much term as well.

Free Agents- Not a fan of the overall body of work. Some hits here and there but too many misses. Inflated contracts with too much term the trend again. Disappointing in this regard, no doubt.

Pro scouting- Needs to be overhauled. Not sure who is running the show here but a lot of the players brought in were targets from the pro scouts of the previous regime. Bonino, Sutter, Gudbranson and Pouliot were all chased before Benning came aboard. Changes need to be made. But again, the GM wears the mistakes of the pro scouts.

Trades- This is more hit and miss than many let on IMO. The trades almost always look better in hindsight than how they are judged at the time of execution. When you go back through the entire history of trades, very few have come back to bite us. Gudbranson deal for me was the worst. The body of work has been improving over time.

So all in all, where does that leave me in regards to Benning 5 years in? He doesn't look like the right candidate to take a decent team to contender status through shrewd signings and final touches. Where Gillis excelled, supplementing a great core, Benning probably would drop the ball.

With that said, he deserves a ton of credit for succeeding at his most important job, replacing the Sedins and re-building the organisation from the ground up. To replace the twins in 5 years, with no picks inside 5, IMO is a major feat and one he doesn't get enough credit for. It's exceptionally difficult to find elite level talent outside the top 2-3 of the draft. We are very very lucky he found what appears to be a star and superstar forward in a handful of years in Vancouver. It can take 20-25 years to find a talent like Pettersson.

Final answer- I would be hesitant to remove Benning from the organisation entirely. The threat of our scouting reverting back to how it was before he arrived is a risk we shouldn't take. Don't believe it was a coincidence that our scouting success turned around immediately after he entered the fold. He came as advertised in that regard.

But if it was up to me, I would remove him from his current role and have him work with Brackett on the amateur side. We have seen enough to know he's not savvy enough to take this team to an elite level IMO. We need a more shrewd negotiator at the helm - in all areas.

Lots of mistakes have been made along the way. But to be where we are 5 years later I don't believe is a major disappointment at all. The lack of short term team success was inevitable, there is a good young core in place and with a few tweaks there could be a lot of quality, exciting, up-tempo hockey in front of us for the next decade. Things are looking up in Vancouver.
 

4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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Eric Crawford ran the 2014 draft. Benning said as much, he just sat back and watched. And Forsling being traded less than year later, and McCann within 2 years suggests to me these weren't Benning influenced picks.

The change looked to take place for the 2017 draft, which by all accounts was their first draft where they were heavily invested in analytics with the selections.

I don't think that changes if they remove Benning, not for a second. If it's being drive by analytics, I don't expect that to change and if Benning's ability to scout amateur's was the driving factor, I don't think the Bruins drafting while he was running their show would look so bad.
 

Drop the Sopel

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Eric Crawford ran the 2014 draft. Benning said as much, he just sat back and watched. And Forsling being traded less than year later, and McCann within 2 years suggests to me these weren't Benning influenced picks.

The change looked to take place for the 2017 draft, which by all accounts was their first draft where they were heavily invested in analytics with the selections.

I don't think that changes if they remove Benning, not for a second. If it's being drive by analytics, I don't expect that to change and if Benning's ability to scout amateur's was the driving factor, I don't think the Bruins drafting while he was running their show would look so bad.

Benning said he saw a ton of Demko in his backyard at Boston college and the Tryamkin pick was due to Benning lifting the Russian ban. Hard to parse out who was responsible for what picks, as the only obvious connection was with Linden/ownership and the hometown boy Virtanen.

Boeser and Gaudette in 2015 had Brackett's fingerprints all over. Crawford was fired days after the draft. Was a dead man walking at that draft.

Removing Benning may or may not hurt our drafting. But the risk/reward just isn't there to take that chance. He saw something in Brackett to take him from part time scout to top of staff. Don't know how he came to that conclusion, but it was huge for this franchise. As a group, they seem to be working very well together. And I wouldn't overlook Benning's huge network of connections and how it can give a leg up on the amateur side. Don't mess with a good thing.

I could be convinced Benning had a marginal hand in 2014. He very well may have let his scouts make the picks. But I do believe by 2015 he had altered course and given Brackett a major voice. 3 of 4 drafts since 2015 have been tremendous thus far. I like those odds.
 
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xtra

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You have evidence of 1 of Benning’s cousins making a few posts here several years ago. Not evidence of “family members” “fanatically defending him, ironic for you to mention what’s embarrassing - your exaggerations (putting it charitably) like this are embarrassing to you and your credibility to the objective poster here has taken a hit as a result.


Are you implying you’re an “objective poster”
 

4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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I could be convinced Benning had a marginal hand in 2014. He very well may have let his scouts make the picks. But I do believe by 2015 he had altered course and given Brackett a major voice. 3 of 4 drafts since 2015 have been tremendous thus far. I like those odds.
I think it's pretty early to be calling drafts tremendous, sure getting Pettersson makes everything that happened after not matter as much, but the following 2 picks, Lind and Gadjovich are struggling in the AHL. I do like that the process seemed to change in 2017 though, and they have since admitted they're using analytics more but I think the jury is out still.

Pro hockey is the great equalizer, everything tends to look good while its shiny and new.

With regards to 2014, I think Benning signed off on Virtanen, as he knew the "soft" tag the organization was saddled with and I think he unlocked Russia.
 

Drop the Sopel

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I think it's pretty early to be calling drafts tremendous, sure getting Pettersson makes everything that happened after not matter as much, but the following 2 picks, Lind and Gadjovich are struggling in the AHL. I do like that the process seemed to change in 2017 though, and they have since admitted they're using analytics more but I think the jury is out still.

Pro hockey is the great equalizer, everything tends to look good while its shiny and new.

With regards to 2014, I think Benning signed off on Virtanen, as he knew the "soft" tag the organization was saddled with and I think he unlocked Russia.

Tremendous based on our current information, albeit early. If you were told you could take any scouting staff in the NHL and re-do the 2015-2018 drafts for the Canucks, you wouldn't do it. Our group performed that well. Not bad for what had been arguably the least effective scouting organization in hockey under the previous regime.

Yes, the jump from Juniors to the AHL is bigger than the jump from the AHL to the NHL IMO. But all we can do is judge guys on the level they're currently at. And on that front, our collection of prospects are tracking very well as a whole. Obviously you will have disappointments sprinkled in there.

As a hardcore Ehlers guy in 2014, unfortunately I remember all too well how hard Virtanen was being pumped, before Benning even came aboard. The GM does sign off on every pick, but Trevor's gushing over Jake and the connections with ownership point to where the interest came from. Benning wears the pick, but if he does, he also wears the fact the team went 5 for 5 with their first 5 picks in that draft. There is maybe 1 guy taken in the 2nd rd I would trade Demko for right now. There is 1 guy taken in the 3rd round that has played more NHL games than Tryamkin. We had no 4th rd pick. There is nobody in the 5th rd that has played more NHL games than Forsling...
 

timw33

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As a hardcore Ehlers guy in 2014, unfortunately I remember all too well how hard Virtanen was being pumped, before Benning even came aboard. The GM does sign off on every pick, but Trevor's gushing over Jake and the connections with ownership point to where the interest came from.

Yep. The pick had been telegraphed for what felt like months, similar to them telegraphing Juolevi from the 2016 WJC onwards.
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
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Yep. The pick had been telegraphed for what felt like months, similar to them telegraphing Juolevi from the 2016 WJC onwards.
They telegraphed Makar if he dropped as well.
 

4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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Tremendous based on our current information, albeit early. If you were told you could take any scouting staff in the NHL and re-do the 2015-2018 drafts for the Canucks, you wouldn't do it. Our group performed that well. Not bad for what had been arguably the least effective scouting organization in hockey under the previous regime.

Yes, the jump from Juniors to the AHL is bigger than the jump from the AHL to the NHL IMO. But all we can do is judge guys on the level they're currently at. And on that front, our collection of prospects are tracking very well as a whole. Obviously you will have disappointments sprinkled in there.

As a hardcore Ehlers guy in 2014, unfortunately I remember all too well how hard Virtanen was being pumped, before Benning even came aboard. The GM does sign off on every pick, but Trevor's gushing over Jake and the connections with ownership point to where the interest came from. Benning wears the pick, but if he does, he also wears the fact the team went 5 for 5 with their first 5 picks in that draft. There is maybe 1 guy taken in the 2nd rd I would trade Demko for right now. There is 1 guy taken in the 3rd round that has played more NHL games than Tryamkin. We had no 4th rd pick. There is nobody in the 5th rd that has played more NHL games than Forsling...
I responded to this, but it dissappeared.

I don't know how you can make the case you wouldn't trade the scouting staffs, they have 2 hits and a bunch of question marks.

If superscout Benning didn't want Virtanen he would've overruled it, he wanted him.

I'd take Brayden Point over Demko and Tryamkin easily, same with Montour and Dvorak.

Didn't we already agree 2014 was likely the draft Benning had the least to do with?
 

Drop the Sopel

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Yep. The pick had been telegraphed for what felt like months, similar to them telegraphing Juolevi from the 2016 WJC onwards.

Yup, I was concerned going into both of those selections. Both pointed to passing on the big league producers. If you can get a guy putting up 2 PPG in the CHL, with a decent sized frame, outside the top 3, don't outsmart yourself. Both Ehlers and Tkachuk were doing just that. Ehlers as a CHL rookie to boot. Based on everything I saw leading up to the 2014 draft, the Virtanen pick I didn't attribute to Benning. Missing on Tkachuk was 100% his fault. And that is the bigger whiff of the two IMO.

Not sure if Makar was telegraphed to the same degree. They never brought him in for an extra look like they did with Glass and Pettersson. They obviously really liked him though. How could you not, especially with our complete and utter dearth of skilled dmen in the system.
 
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Melvin

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Sep 29, 2017
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Good to see you again, DTS.

Drop The Sopel said:
2014- Canucks found 5 NHL players with their first 5 picks. That just doesn't happen. Anywhere.

Plenty have teams have drafted 5 players in a draft, using a loose definition of "NHL player": NYI in 2008, OTT in 2011, CBJ in 2002, Florida in 2011, LAK in 2009, Chicago in 2003, WSH in 2004 .... This is just some recent examples. I don't know why "first 5 picks" matters and Benning had two first-rounders in that draft anyway which obviously increases the odds.

Given that it was his first draft, and that Benning swiftly traded two of those players (and hasn't traded a single drafted player since,) tells you that he wasn't too enamored with those selections anyway.

I've posted the numbers in terms of nhl player vs expected players given where the Canucks have picked, and it's pretty much exactly average overall.
 

Ryp37

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Nov 6, 2011
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I like when people say Benning saw something in Judd

If by saw something you mean Judd was bringing good picks/recommendations and was therefore promoted then yeah he “saw something” in the same way a boss promotes his most efficient worker
 
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