GDT: #17| Vancouver Canucks @ New York Islanders | November 13th | 7:00 PM | F/W 5-2

[Uncle Duke]

Simple answer: Don Cherry.

For years, Cherry was showing that play on 'Hockey Night in Canada', and always talking about Orr scoring while flying through the air after being tripped. It was pointed out several times that he scored, then jumped afterwards. Finally, Cherry stopped lying about it, and for a while stopped showing it all the time.

Orr was a great player, but he also arrived at a time when the league had just doubled in size, the WHA was starting, and coaches were just beginning to let defencemen carry the puck. (Toe Blake told Doug Harvey, another great skating defenceman, that he would be fined every time he carried the puck across centre.) Orr was a large part of the team that won a couple of cups for Cherry, and Don has been telling everyone that Orr is the greatest player of all time ever since.

Bossy just never had the PR man that Bobby did.

Nobody loved Bossy more than I did but to essentially call Orr's place in the game a PR job is nuts. For those of us old enough to have seen him play live, he was so much better than everyone else on the ice that no amount of youtube clips can do it justice. Relative to the era he played in, Orr was the greatest ever. It's not close.

 

[BelovedIsles]

The amount of immediate chemistry Kuhnhackl had with Filppula and Komarov was interesting. He’s definitely a better fit there than Beauvillier right now at the very least.

I think when Martin comes back, there’s a chance they send Beauvillier down, depending on how serious Ladd’s injury is.

Lee-Nelson-Bailey
Ladd-Barzal-Eberle
Kuhnhackl-Filppula-Komarov
Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck

How long is Ladd out?

 

[Uncle Duke]

I've been dealing with a guy in business for the past 15 years or so from Laval. He never passes up the chance to say what a great guy Mike Bossy is and how proud he is that he's from Laval.

I don't think that in the history of major sports there has ever been as dominant a team, a team that then became a dynasty with all that that entails, that remained so accessible to it's fans. Boss was obviously a part of that but it was the whole squad and the whole LI/Hempstead/Coliseum set up. It was not unusual at all to run into those guys at the gas station, restaurant, ice cream parlor, Eisenhower Park. Just regular guys living on the island. A great time to be an Isles fan.

And now it's 35 yrs later and not a whiff of another Cup since. I would have never believed it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

As far as I know, Cherry has never won a Cup in any capacity.

You're right. They made it to the finals twice with him, but only won the year before he started coaching them.

 

[Uncle Duke]

You're right. They made it to the finals twice with him, but only won the year before he started coaching them.

I generally like most of the Canadian people that I meet, but how they can embrace that tool is beyond me.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nobody loved Bossy more than I did but to essentially call Orr's place in the game a PR job is nuts. For those of us old enough to have seen him play live, he was so much better than everyone else on the ice that no amount of youtube clips can do it justice. Relative to the era he played in, Orr was the greatest ever. It's not close.

I've watched him play a lot, and played with, and talked to people who played with and against him. He was very good, and one of the best players of his time, but some of his reputation has been enhanced by Cherry's constant adulation.

But my particular point was that the predominance of videos of Orr's goal compared to Bossy's, is largely due to Don Cherry.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I generally like most of the Canadian people that I meet, but how they can embrace that tool is beyond me.

My wife tunes in during intermission just to see what abomination he is wearing. I will usually listen to about half his rant before I get fed up. I figure he is usually right about 1/3 of the time, at best.

He's actually a very nice person, when he's not 'on air'.

 

[Cameraguy]

My wife tunes in during intermission just to see what abomination he is wearing. I will usually listen to about half his rant before I get fed up. I figure he is usually right about 1/3 of the time, at best.

He's actually a very nice person, when he's not 'on air'.

Don is a great person, I met him a few times. The best coaches corner was when the New York sports media was comparing Brian Leetch to Bobby Orr that Leetch was better. Don almost fell off his chair lol.

 

[Uncle Duke]

My wife tunes in during intermission just to see what abomination he is wearing. I will usually listen to about half his rant before I get fed up. I figure he is usually right about 1/3 of the time, at best.

He's actually a very nice person, when he's not 'on air'.

He may be a nice guy off the air but he embraces the worst parts of the game and generally speaking makes a mockery of it (not that hockey is life and death or anything, but still). Plus, his act is so freakin' old and pointless that I don't understand how anyone can enjoy watching him. I guess old (bad) habits die hard.

 

[MIK55]

Nobody loved Bossy more than I did but to essentially call Orr's place in the game a PR job is nuts. For those of us old enough to have seen him play live, he was so much better than everyone else on the ice that no amount of youtube clips can do it justice. Relative to the era he played in, Orr was the greatest ever. It's not close.

Orr was unquestionably the greatest player of his generation and changed the game for the better in ways that had been previously unimaginable. Asserting, however, that PR is the reason that that flight following the goal against St. Louis to win the cup is far more remembered than Bossy's superhuman effort takes nothing away from Orr's greatness.

 

[MIK55]

You're right. They made it to the finals twice with him, but only won the year before he started coaching them.

As I recall it, Harry Sinden coached them to their 1970 and 1972 cups.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Orr was unquestionably the greatest player of his generation and changed the game for the better in ways that had been previously unimaginable. Asserting, however, that PR is the reason that that flight following the goal against St. Louis to win the cup is far more remembered than Bossy's superhuman effort takes nothing away from Orr's greatness.

I agree with that, but beyond it's factual inaccuracies, I'm sure you would agree that Jamason's third paragraph went well beyond the discussion of the relative greatness of the two goals and why they are remembered as they are:

"Orr was a great player, but he also arrived at a time when the league had just doubled in size, the WHA was starting, and coaches were just beginning to let defencemen carry the puck. (Toe Blake told Doug Harvey, another great skating defenceman, that he would be fined every time he carried the puck across centre.) Orr was a large part of the team that won a couple of cups for Cherry, and Don has been telling everyone that Orr is the greatest player of all time ever since."

Furthermore, Boston was an Original Six team with a national following and Orr's fame was already well established when the "flying" goal was scored. The picture didn't make the legend, it just added to it. The bottom line is that the Orr goal got the greater play because Orr was who he was and Boston was who they were, while the Islander's dynasty, for all of it's greatness, was never embraced nationally, oddly and particularly in the US, and pretty much remained a possession of the people of LI throughout.

 

[Uncle Duke]

It's pretty funny that an early season, fluke goal by Tom Kühnhackl of all people would spark such a spirited debate about legends like Bossy and Orr! Though, to his credit, and having watched it numerous times since, Knuckles got some elevation on that puck. I had not really noticed that before. An epic goal no matter how you slice it.

 

[Hunn]

Orr, Bossy, and Kuhnhackl ... who could imagine this discussion back in July?

 

[MIK55]

I agree with that, but beyond it's factual inaccuracies, I'm sure you would agree that Jamason's third paragraph went well beyond the discussion of the relative greatness of the two goals and why they are remembered as they are:

"Orr was a great player, but he also arrived at a time when the league had just doubled in size, the WHA was starting, and coaches were just beginning to let defencemen carry the puck. (Toe Blake told Doug Harvey, another great skating defenceman, that he would be fined every time he carried the puck across centre.) Orr was a large part of the team that won a couple of cups for Cherry, and Don has been telling everyone that Orr is the greatest player of all time ever since."

Furthermore, Boston was an Original Six team with a national following and Orr's fame was already well established when the "flying" goal was scored. The picture didn't make the legend, it just added to it. The bottom line is that the Orr goal got the greater play because Orr was who he was and Boston was who they were, while the Islander's dynasty, for all of it's greatness, was never embraced nationally, oddly and particularly in the US, and pretty much remained a possession of the people of LI throughout.

I do indeed agree.