Prospect Info: #16 - Jakob Chychrun

[SniperHF]

I guess I don't think it's that urgent. From a pure trade down value it was actually pretty decent even if you remove the cap part of the deal.

If the Wings didn't think Chychrun was a top 10 talent like the Coyotes, it was an even better deal for them. That's why I don't like judging trades based on how prospects pan out. Only the value at the time matters to me. I also don't think this is exclusively a Stamkos related move. There are plenty of other FAs they could lure this year and TDL moves they'll have room for if they don't land Stammer.

 

[XX]

Probably should have made the same swap sans 53 before the draft. Holland is not dumb, he knows that's the best deal they're going to get and he'd be able to gear up for using that space earlier. JC's mistake was probably asking for a prospect if the rumors about the cost were true. They were aiming to pick off a good young player instead of a simple swap plus dumping Vitale.

From what it sounds like, they didn't plan on trading up, and were frantically calling teams before 16. Nobody wanted to do it. So Holland has JC, right there, and was able to make him toss in the 2nd to get it done.

4 draft spots plus dumping Vitale has real value to the Coyotes, Chychrun or not. I do that deal everyday. The plan was probably to hold 20 and see where the chips fell. They just happened to run into a savvy GM. That's just experience vs inexperience.

 

[Jakey53]

Probably should have made the same swap sans 53 before the draft. Holland is not dumb, he knows that's the best deal they're going to get and he'd be able to gear up for using that space earlier. JC's mistake was probably asking for a prospect if the rumors about the cost were true. They were aiming to pick off a good young player instead of a simple swap plus dumping Vitale.

From what it sounds like, they didn't plan on trading up, and were frantically calling teams before 16. Nobody wanted to do it. So Holland has JC, right there, and was able to make him toss in the 2nd to get it done.

4 draft spots plus dumping Vitale has real value to the Coyotes, Chychrun or not. I do that deal everyday. The plan was probably to hold 20 and see where the chips fell. They just happened to run into a savvy GM. That's just experience vs inexperience.

Who knows, but the rumored prospects that Detroit were willing to give up were useless to us and would take up contract space. This was a win win for both teams.

 

[hbk]

Chychrun was ranked 2nd going into this year. He regressed though. Coming off shoulder surgery explains part of it however it doesn't explain the regression in 2nd half of year. What does explain it is he was trying to do too much and be too much of a focal point instead of just dialing down things at time to make the safe play.

Once u get labelled with the lack of hockey sense label you knew it was going to be a longer day in the stands then they had hoped. That's the kiss of death with scouts.

He's salvageable based on his play at 16. I have his downside as a 4/5. If he can regain his form I'm willing to eat crow if he turns out to be a 2/3.

 

[rt]

He didn't regress the 2nd half. He put up a point per game. He had a bad U18. And a bad TPG. But from what I gather he was good in the playoffs, no?

 

[Jakey53]

Chychrun was ranked 2nd going into this year. He regressed though. Coming off shoulder surgery explains part of it however it doesn't explain the regression in 2nd half of year. What does explain it is he was trying to do too much and be too much of a focal point instead of just dialing down things at time to make the safe play.

Once u get labelled with the lack of hockey sense label you knew it was going to be a longer day in the stands then they had hoped. That's the kiss of death with scouts.

He's salvageable based on his play at 16. I have his downside as a 4/5. If he can regain his form I'm willing to eat crow if he turns out to be a 2/3.

I watched some highlights after we drafted him and I think he has good mobility and plays his angles very well. I didn't see anything that I would consider "lack of hockey sense". What I saw was only a small sample, but I think he has a better shot at top pairing than a #5.

He didn't regress the 2nd half. He put up a point per game. He had a bad U18.

I read that he was trying to put the team on his shoulders, and do it all. I don't follow junior at all so not sure if this is true or not, but they, like you, said he had a good 2nd. half. Some were saying coaching played into it also, not only with Chychrun, but the whole team.

 

[rt]

Well they were highlights. Not lowlights. Haha.

 

[rt]

When Juolevi went off the board I thought "good, I'm glad. I didn't want him" - he never matched the scouting reports. He seems like he's good at moving the puck up ice with good passing and vision. He seems really smart along the blueline when his team has controlled possession, especially on the power play. But as a supporting player in this regard. Nothing ever seemed to flow through him. He never made any truly big impression plays. More like a guy who's "solid" offensively. Defensively is where I feel like he's really overrated. He has this reputation of being a rock defensive, this calm, cool, collected ice man. That's not what I saw. I saw panic under pressure and some scrambling decisions. Passing and vision bailed him out much of the time, but it was anything but calm and smooth. Also, very physically weak and always lost the board battles. His downside, in my opinion is much greater than anyone is saying. I don't think he's as safe as we are meant to believe. A lower floor. If say his floor is actually lower than Chychrun's. Everyone says Chychrun will at least be an NHL player for a long-time. They just doubt his impact. If Juolevi doesn't get stronger, and make quicker, calmer decisions, he may never make an impact. As for ceilings, if Juolevi makes it, he'll be a power play contributor. Chychrun may not be. Very slight edge to OJ, here. Would I trade Chychrun for OJ? Hmmm...probably not. I like the word on OJ better. But his scouting report doesn't match the eye test for me. From what I've actually seen from him versus what I've heard about Chychrun. I think I take Chychrun.

Sergachev? Highest ceiling among D in the draft. Floor? I'd rank them 1. Chychrun 2. Juolevi 3. Sergachev 4. Bean - he's a boom or bust guy. I'd say he's tied with Chychrun. I might have him a little ahead. Bean I have way back of the above trio. He's in the McAvoy, Fabbro group for me. Not sure how I'd rank that group.

So I think I'd say I have Sergachev slightly ahead of Chychrun but with strong worry about floor and Juolevi just slightly below Chychrun with worry about his overall plain-Jane, vanilla game. I worry the least about Chychrun. Which despite how much Bob and Pierre and Craig were pissing and ******** all over him, was exactly what they were saying, even if somehow it came out as an insult.

"Would you take a sure thing 3-4 as high as 16?" "No!" "Me neither" - idiots. 16th overall is usually not an impact player in the NHL. Certainly an extreme rarity for them to be a top pairing D or top line F.

 

[ck26]

This video makes me laugh so hard. I don't understand how sports media can be this stupid.

Don't care, she's hot, I'm even OK with all the Fox Sports Detroit crap on the wall.

She's obviously a Michigan reporter, she's looking at the world through Red Wings glasses. Great. Funny though, that this isn't the first time I've seen someone include Joe Vitale as part of the return; for his sake I hope he plays in the NHL again but I would bet that hot blonde's kitchen sink that he doesn't play next season and his inclusion just turns into $1.5m less cap space for the Wings.

"Would you take a sure thing 3-4 as high as 16?" "No!" "Me neither" - idiots. 16th overall is usually not an impact player in the NHL. Certainly an extreme rarity for them to be a top pairing D or top line F.

Yeah, lots of good players at 16 but few stars ... that said, Barzal, Milano, Zadorov, Tom Wilson, Tarasenko, Leddy ... lots of very good / very promising players taken there the last decade.

 

[rt]

2005
16. Alex Bourret = bust
17. Martin Hanzal = 2nd/3rd liner (successful)
18. Ryan Parent = bust

2006
16. Ty Wishart = bust
17. Trevor Lewis = 3rd liner
18. Chris Stewart = enigmatic tweener, limited impact

2007
16. Gillies = bust
17. Cherepanov = Rest in Peace - God bless
18. Ian Cole = 3rd pairing D

2008
16. Colborne - middle six winger
17. Gardiner - 2nd pair D (FINALLY! We have one example)
18. Pickard = bust

2009
16. Leddy = 1st or 2nd pair D
17. Rundblad = bust
18. LeBlanc = bust

 

[rt]

Don't care, she's hot, I'm even OK with all the Fox Sports Detroit crap on the wall.

She's obviously a Michigan reporter, she's looking at the world through Red Wings glasses. Great. Funny though, that this isn't the first time I've seen someone include Joe Vitale as part of the return; for his sake I hope he plays in the NHL again but I would bet that hot blonde's kitchen sink that he doesn't play next season and his inclusion just turns into $1.5m less cap space for the Wings.Yeah, lots of good players at 16 but few stars ... that said, Barzal, Milano, Zadorov, Tom Wilson, Tarasenko, Leddy ... lots of very good / very promising players taken there the last decade.

Plenty of time for Barzal, Milano, and Zadorov to bust. You need to go further back

On my list of 15 kids in that range in a five year period that's actually decided and final in terms of NHL impact, we've got Hanzal and Gardiner meeting that expectation and Leddy exceeding it. Remove those guys and your left with bottom pairing D, bottom line F, and mostly a bunch of busts.

I'm not saying Chychrun will pan out as a legit 2nd pair. Statistically it's unlikely. I'm just suit the NBC panel is a bunch of idiots for saying that even if he's a sure bet to be a 2nd pair, he's not worth the pick. That's just them being lazy and bad at their jobs.

 

[cobra427]

Chychrun was ranked 2nd going into this year. He regressed though. Coming off shoulder surgery explains part of it however it doesn't explain the regression in 2nd half of year. What does explain it is he was trying to do too much and be too much of a focal point instead of just dialing down things at time to make the safe play.

Once u get labelled with the lack of hockey sense label you knew it was going to be a longer day in the stands then they had hoped. That's the kiss of death with scouts.

He's salvageable based on his play at 16. I have his downside as a 4/5. If he can regain his form I'm willing to eat crow if he turns out to be a 2/3.

Most of the drop might have been due to the injury. Even after he recovered, he could have been more tentative. His first injury is harder to play through once you have recovered. We saw it with Murphy and we might see it with Stone. Stone could be 100% physically by October 1st but might be tentative until March or later. I like that he has the upside of being looked at as the second pick 12 months ago. he can come here with no pressure but with a lot to prove. I think we will be pleasantly surprised. Adversity can be a good thing and in this case i think it will be for us and him.

 

[BUX7PHX]

When Juolevi went off the board I thought "good, I'm glad. I didn't want him" - he never matched the scouting reports. He seems like he's good at moving the puck up ice with good passing and vision. He seems really smart along the blueline when his team has controlled possession, especially on the power play. But as a supporting player in this regard. Nothing ever seemed to flow through him. He never made any truly big impression plays. More like a guy who's "solid" offensively. Defensively is where I feel like he's really overrated. He has this reputation of being a rock defensive, this calm, cool, collected ice man. That's not what I saw. I saw panic under pressure and some scrambling decisions. Passing and vision bailed him out much of the time, but it was anything but calm and smooth. Also, very physically weak and always lost the board battles. His downside, in my opinion is much greater than anyone is saying. I don't think he's as safe as we are meant to believe. A lower floor. If say his floor is actually lower than Chychrun's. Everyone says Chychrun will at least be an NHL player for a long-time. They just doubt his impact. If Juolevi doesn't get stronger, and make quicker, calmer decisions, he may never make an impact. As for ceilings, if Juolevi makes it, he'll be a power play contributor. Chychrun may not be. Very slight edge to OJ, here. Would I trade Chychrun for OJ? Hmmm...probably not. I like the word on OJ better. But his scouting report doesn't match the eye test for me. From what I've actually seen from him versus what I've heard about Chychrun. I think I take Chychrun.

Sergachev? Highest ceiling among D in the draft. Floor? I'd rank them 1. Chychrun 2. Juolevi 3. Sergachev 4. Bean - he's a boom or bust guy. I'd say he's tied with Chychrun. I might have him a little ahead. Bean I have way back of the above trio. He's in the McAvoy, Fabbro group for me. Not sure how I'd rank that group.

So I think I'd say I have Sergachev slightly ahead of Chychrun but with strong worry about floor and Juolevi just slightly below Chychrun with worry about his overall plain-Jane, vanilla game. I worry the least about Chychrun. Which despite how much Bob and Pierre and Craig were pissing and ******** all over him, was exactly what they were saying, even if somehow it came out as an insult.

"Would you take a sure thing 3-4 as high as 16?" "No!" "Me neither" - idiots. 16th overall is usually not an impact player in the NHL. Certainly an extreme rarity for them to be a top pairing D or top line F.

As I probably mentioned before, I had Sergachev, Juolevi, and Chychrun all ranked right around each other. Bean was a late riser for me, followed by McAvoy, then Fabbro. The first 3, I had ranked at #s 10, 11, and 12, but order didn't really matter. Bean, McAvoy, and Fabbro were all concentrated between 15 and 18 for me, but again, order didn't really matter.

Secretly, I think Sergachev and Chychrun will wind up being the best NHLers out of this group.

 

[hbk]

I watched some highlights after we drafted him and I think he has good mobility and plays his angles very well. I didn't see anything that I would consider "lack of hockey sense". What I saw was only a small sample, but I think he has a better shot at top pairing than a #5.



I read that he was trying to put the team on his shoulders, and do it all. I don't follow junior at all so not sure if this is true or not, but they, like you, said he had a good 2nd. half. Some were saying coaching played into it also, not only with Chychrun, but the whole team.

When he has puck he at times makes the Jovo pass tape to tape to the opposition in a prime scoring position.

Train wreck at U18s. There's no way to sugar coat it.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

When he has puck he at times makes the Jovo pass tape to tape to the opposition in a prime scoring position.

Train wreck at U18s. There's no way to sugar coat it.

Especially when scouts were calling you the most complete Dman since Drew Doughty coming into the year.

 

[rt]

When he has puck he at times makes the Jovo pass tape to tape to the opposition in a prime scoring position.

Train wreck at U18s. There's no way to sugar coat it.

Toss out the one tourney and the stupid TPG. Did he have a bad year?

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

I heard Chychrun played well in the playoffs

 

[Jakey53]

When he has puck he at times makes the Jovo pass tape to tape to the opposition in a prime scoring position.

Train wreck at U18s. There's no way to sugar coat it.

You have watched him more than me, but I can't wait to see him at prospect camp.

 

[hbk]

Toss out the one tourney and the stupid TPG. Did he have a bad year?

Against expectations of challenging for 1 overall. Yes he did.

He didn't establish himself as a QB for a PP for example. That was a hug red flag for some.

Now I have to rematch OHL playoffs. Which I can do.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Against expectations of challenging for 1 overall. Yes he did.

He didn't establish himself as a QB for a PP for example. That was a hug red flag for some.

Now I have to rematch OHL playoffs. Which I can do.

I only saw two games of his(and they were from last season) but it didn't seem like he had a ton of creativity with the puck. He did make a lot of smart simple plays, so I wonder if they wanted him to step up his creativity this year and that's where a lot of his turnovers came from.

 

[OriginalJetsCoyotes]

Plenty of time for Barzal, Milano, and Zadorov to bust. You need to go further back

On my list of 15 kids in that range in a five year period that's actually decided and final in terms of NHL impact, we've got Hanzal and Gardiner meeting that expectation and Leddy exceeding it. Remove those guys and your left with bottom pairing D, bottom line F, and mostly a bunch of busts.

I'm not saying Chychrun will pan out as a legit 2nd pair. Statistically it's unlikely. I'm just suit the NBC panel is a bunch of idiots for saying that even if he's a sure bet to be a 2nd pair, he's not worth the pick. That's just them being lazy and bad at their jobs.

How many of those players were once pegged as franchise players though?

 

[XX]

How many of those players were once pegged as franchise players though?

Plenty. I'd wager draft day droppers have a higher fail rate than their draft slot.

 

[OriginalJetsCoyotes]

Plenty. I'd wager draft day droppers have a higher fail rate than their draft slot.

Give me one scouting report for a player drafted at that position(15-17) whom was projected to be a franchise defenseman or forward. Those generally go in the top 5.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

Give me one scouting report for a player drafted at that position(15-17) whom was projected to be a franchise defenseman or forward. Those generally go in the top 5.

Brandon Gormley

 

[rt]

Gormley went at 13, didn't he? And was projected 5-8ish?