Golf: 100th PGA Championship: August 9-12. Bellerive

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,227
23,098
New York
Based off what I watched in round one, and that was golf from both waves, this course is the worst major championship venue I've seen in years. Thoroughly unimpressed with this golf course. Nothing interesting to it. Its long because of how soft the fairways are and how hilly the course is. The fairways are also somewhat hard to hit because of the doglegs. The tee shots keep the players from having more than a couple scoring opportunities on the course. Just a plain boring "tricked up long" course that isn't even long in an interesting way. Greens are as bad as there has been in a major championship since Chambers Bay. Slow and bumpy, even in the morning.

The PGA Championship thinks switching to May will change that their tournament is the fourth major. How about we see some better courses? The US Open constantly laps the PGA Championship in course selection, even if we've seen some bad courses in recent years in the US Open.
 
Mar 1, 2002
66,103
12,072
Molinari looks good again.....what a year he's having, hell what a month! Last 4 tournaments coming into the PGA

1st
t-2nd
1st
39th
 

BMOK33

Registered User
Oct 5, 2005
26,434
4,044
Keeping with the seemingly never ending trend in majors the course is playing easy today on the 2nd day. Wouldn’t be surprised if one of these guys ends up -11 or -12. The afternoon group probably won’t see it change as winds aren’t expected to increase much so might see someone in those -2 groups pull off a -7 or -8 day. Thunderstorm issues are very possible starting at 3pm CDT. Anything that forms won’t move at all so delays could be very long if a storm forms nearby
 
Jan 3, 2012
27,085
983
Based off what I watched in round one, and that was golf from both waves, this course is the worst major championship venue I've seen in years. Thoroughly unimpressed with this golf course. Nothing interesting to it. Its long because of how soft the fairways are and how hilly the course is. The fairways are also somewhat hard to hit because of the doglegs. The tee shots keep the players from having more than a couple scoring opportunities on the course. Just a plain boring "tricked up long" course that isn't even long in an interesting way. Greens are as bad as there has been in a major championship since Chambers Bay. Slow and bumpy, even in the morning.

The PGA Championship thinks switching to May will change that their tournament is the fourth major. How about we see some better courses? The US Open constantly laps the PGA Championship in course selection, even if we've seen some bad courses in recent years in the US Open.

Not sure I agree. This course looks alright from what I have seen, though I think it is in questionable shape. Maybe not the toughest test in terms of course management, but I think there is enough to it. PGA Championship has always been the most average courses of the four majors. Where would you like to see host it?
 

BluesOne31

We going insane
Dec 31, 2011
1,984
64
Well this week was crap in terms of seeing Tiger. Skipped ahead 2 holes Tuesday to see him come through 6 & 7 and the skies opened up for the delay then. Then today, after seeing most of Rickie’s front 9, posted up at 9 green with a prime spot and they stop it with Day & Phil on the green.

Debating on even going Sunday. Huge crowds, long lines and very hot. Some concession lines were hour long waits.

Sat on the ropes to watch main 5-6 groups of the morning wave go through 15 green/16 tee and then 6 green/7 tee.
 

Dr John Carlson

Registered User
Dec 21, 2011
9,726
4,031
Nova Scotia
Based off what I watched in round one, and that was golf from both waves, this course is the worst major championship venue I've seen in years. Thoroughly unimpressed with this golf course. Nothing interesting to it. Its long because of how soft the fairways are and how hilly the course is. The fairways are also somewhat hard to hit because of the doglegs. The tee shots keep the players from having more than a couple scoring opportunities on the course. Just a plain boring "tricked up long" course that isn't even long in an interesting way. Greens are as bad as there has been in a major championship since Chambers Bay. Slow and bumpy, even in the morning.

The PGA Championship thinks switching to May will change that their tournament is the fourth major. How about we see some better courses? The US Open constantly laps the PGA Championship in course selection, even if we've seen some bad courses in recent years in the US Open.

I agree to an extent, but the biggest problem with the PGA IMO is the total lack of character. The tournament has nothing going for it apart from its major status... the closest thing to an identity it has is that there are 25 PGA club professionals playing, all of which miss the cut every year except for a few outliers. Not really something to get excited for.

The issue is that there isn't really any way to fix this, unless they are willing to revert back to the match-play format that the PGA used up until the 50s. I could honestly see this happening one day since the tournament seems to be in a noticeable decline in interest (although I might just be used to the golf twitter echo chamber) and such a drastic change would drum up a lot of interest. Except not from me, since I really don't like individual match-play tournaments at all.

But yeah, this course kind of sucks. Maybe the solution is to just play the PGA at Cypress Point every year.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,227
23,098
New York
Not sure I agree. This course looks alright from what I have seen, though I think it is in questionable shape. Maybe not the toughest test in terms of course management, but I think there is enough to it. PGA Championship has always been the most average courses of the four majors. Where would you like to see host it?

I think at the very least its in questionable shape. The greens have no true roll. Making anything from any substantial distance is very tough this week. The fairways have no roll out on an August week where there's been very little rain and a lot of sunshine. Admittedly, maybe I'd like the course more if I played it or if it was in its best shape. I don't have a handy list of courses that should replace this one. I could probably come up with one. To be fair, its not the only recent PGA Championship course that isn't major quality. Quail Hollow wasn't, Atlanta Athletic Club wasn't.

I'd like the PGA to do a better job with picking venues, and not act like their Championship becomes so much better just because they are moving to May.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,227
23,098
New York
I agree to an extent, but the biggest problem with the PGA IMO is the total lack of character. The tournament has nothing going for it apart from its major status... the closest thing to an identity it has is that there are 25 PGA club professionals playing, all of which miss the cut every year except for a few outliers. Not really something to get excited for.

The issue is that there isn't really any way to fix this, unless they are willing to revert back to the match-play format that the PGA used up until the 50s. I could honestly see this happening one day since the tournament seems to be in a noticeable decline in interest (although I might just be used to the golf twitter echo chamber) and such a drastic change would drum up a lot of interest. Except not from me, since I really don't like individual match-play tournaments at all.

But yeah, this course kind of sucks. Maybe the solution is to just play the PGA at Cypress Point every year.

You are right that there's no identity, but I don't see why it can't be played at the best courses in the US and be made much tougher. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that most of the best tournaments on a yearly basis in golf have higher scoring. Higher scoring wouldn't be too much of a US Open copycat.

Frankly, I think the only two reasons that the Masters and Open Championship aren't harder on a yearly basis is the set lineup of courses. Those two Championships are weather dependent at times of year in those areas where less than ideal weather will often yield a very tough course. If the greens at Open were around 14 as opposed to 11, the "bad weather" days no one would be able to break 75. If the Masters rough was penalizing, we'd rarely see anyone shoot double digits under par. The PGA should set these courses up harder. Its not that the PGA courses are inherently much easier than the US Open courses. Some are, but Gary Player won the US Open on this course at +2. Its mostly in the set-up.

This is one of the main examples of what I mean. How is this a major Championship golf hole? I'm sure it was different in 1965 when Player won.



The PGA Championship has no more excuses. They got their preferred time of year. It won't be as hot, the weather conditions should be better. We need to see better courses and harder set-ups. I don't see the need for any gimmicks, like a match play or part of the event. There are only four of these events per year. How about they emulate the US Open set up and course selection but don't have the yearly gaffes that the USGA has? I think that would yield more favorable reviews of their tournament.
 
Last edited:
Jan 3, 2012
27,085
983
I think it's fair to say it needs to be tougher @Pavel Buchnevich. I think E to -10 is a good score for an average major. Maybe with better course selection and conditions it will be.

Maybe golf is too traditionalist. How many of the recent PGA courses are new and have never hosted a PGA or big event before?

There are plenty of beautiful and challenging courses that could be played. Atleast the USGA is willing to try new courses, even if they butcher the setups.
 

BluesOne31

We going insane
Dec 31, 2011
1,984
64
You are right that there's no identity, but I don't see why it can't be played at the best courses in the US and be made much tougher. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that most of the best tournaments on a yearly basis in golf have higher scoring. Higher scoring wouldn't be too much of a US Open copycat.

Frankly, I think the only two reasons that the Masters and Open Championship aren't harder on a yearly basis is the set lineup of courses. Those two Championships are weather dependent at times of year in those areas where less than ideal weather will often yield a very tough course. If the greens at Open were around 14 as opposed to 11, the "bad weather" days no one would be able to break 75. If the Masters rough was penalizing, we'd rarely see anyone shoot double digits under par. The PGA should set these courses up harder. Its not that the PGA courses are inherently much easier than the US Open courses. Some are, but Gary Player won the US Open on this course at +2. Its mostly in the set-up.

This is one of the main examples of what I mean. How is this a major Championship golf hole? I'm sure it was different in 1965 when Player won.



The PGA Championship has no more excuses. They got their preferred time of year. It won't be as hot, the weather conditions should be better. We need to see better courses and harder set-ups. I don't see the need for any gimmicks, like a match play or part of the event. There are only four of these events per year. How about they emulate the US Open set up and course selection but don't have the yearly gaffes that the USGA has? I think that would yield more favorable reviews of their tournament.


St. Louis heat has killed the greens and it rained all day Tuesday and a lot yesterday. Kinda hard to control the weather and tough for grass to roll when it's soaked...

You complained that "the tee shots keep the players from having more than a couple scoring opportunities on the course" but are now complaining that the course is too easy and scores are low.

Plus, who really cares if PGA officials think their major is more important than the others? It's still going to be the 4th major and that's not going away. Either watch it or don't.

Bethpage Black
TPC Harding Park
Kiawah Island
Trump National
Oak Hill
Valhalla
Aronimink Golf Club
The Olympic Club
Baltusrol

There's your future courses.
 
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