Post-Game Talk: 10/30/13 Sharks at Kings. Sharks lose 3-4 in OT

[sr228]

Why would you use an individual stat for a units effectiveness?

Look at s/60 and % of the unit. You get more data points for shots when the sample is smaller.

If Demers is a detriment you'd see a decrease in both. If he's a positive, you might see lateral or more shots per 60. He is getting the hang of the DESIGNED entry plays; he can penetrate and push the defensive blue line back for a drop pass and quick up to the boards. Irwin can't which is why he dumps on the pp.

If I had the games recorded it would be interesting to track clean entries while Boyle is there versus Demers.

s/60 is what I like to look at. The fact that they've had two games w/ 3 PP goals isn't lost on me but the other 6 games w/o Boyle, the PP has not looked very good.

 

[do0glas]

s/60 is what I like to look at. The fact that they've had two games w/ 3 PP goals isn't lost on me but the other 6 games w/o Boyle, the PP has not looked very good.

Until the last two games it failed the eye test for me. Demers is going from a meat and potatoes unit to a finesse unit. So it should be interesting.

 

[sr228]

Until the last two games it failed the eye test for me. Demers is going from a meat and potatoes unit to a finesse unit. So it should be interesting.

He also hasn't been the only one skating w/ the first PP unit, they've had Irwin and Braun there at times as well.

I really like Demers offensive game but he doesn't have Boyle's vision or hockey sense. He should be a really good 2nd unit PPQB.

 

[19sharks19]

The times that they have gone to Hannan/Stuart, they have been burned badly this year. Stuart/Irwin plus Demers/Hannan works better. When they pair Stuart and Hannan, the shotclock is not so much in the Sharks favor. I haven't figured exactly why yet.

The first unit PP has modestly improved without Boyle but the sample size is way too small.

yeah, I cannot understand the thinking in pairing these two together. Slow as heck.

 

[hohosaregood]

yeah, I cannot understand the thinking in pairing these two together. Slow as heck.

It's definitely just an oldtimer pairing. Legacy thinking that's still around on every team. I understand having them in the lineup as guys who block shots during PKs and stuff but actually hoping for them to play successfully together at even strength seems a bit naive.

On the other hand, I've never really been a fan of Irwin.

 

[19sharks19]

It's definitely just an oldtimer pairing. Legacy thinking that's still around on every team. I understand having them in the lineup as guys who block shots during PKs and stuff but actually hoping for them to play successfully together at even strength seems a bit naive.

On the other hand, I've never really been a fan of Irwin.

True, Irwin still needs much grooming but, I wish during Boyles time out, we would have at least seen some games with Tennyson or Abeltshauser. When Hannan was signed, I really didn't think, even with injuries, he was going to get so much playing time but rather some shared time with the aforementioned.

 

[Gilligans Island]

He also hasn't been the only one skating w/ the first PP unit, they've had Irwin and Braun there at times as well.

I really like Demers offensive game but he doesn't have Boyle's vision or hockey sense. He should be a really good 2nd unit PPQB.

The key for me, while Boyle's been out, is will the PP produce and I'm glad to see it has. I never expected Demers to be as good as Boyle is - that's not fair. Boyle has way more experience.

One silver lining in Boyle's injury is the PP can produce and the team has still gained pts.

That said, ironically, it's the ES defense that's suffered more so. We do lack his PMD skills since it leaves a pair of dmen without that skill and it's exposed us

 

[do0glas]

The Stuart Hannan pairing is a downgrade. But we see a net gain in offense by splitting up Stuart and Irwin and giving Demers more ice time. They've done it twice now and it doesn't bode well for Stuart or Irwin.

 

[hohosaregood]

That said, ironically, it's the ES defense that's suffered more so. We do lack his PMD skills since it leaves a pair of dmen without that skill and it's exposed us

I think it just shows that Irwin isn't ready/good enough. We could easily have Demers-Hannan and that's fine. But then we'd have to deal with Irwin-Stuart and that doesn't work. So how do you change it up after that? You can't because only one guy in the bottom 4 can handle his own with any degree of success right now and that's Demers.

 

[sr228]

The key for me, while Boyle's been out, is will the PP produce and I'm glad to see it has. I never expected Demers to be as good as Boyle is - that's not fair. Boyle has way more experience.

One silver lining in Boyle's injury is the PP can produce and the team has still gained pts.

That said, ironically, it's the ES defense that's suffered more so. We do lack his PMD skills since it leaves a pair of dmen without that skill and it's exposed us

I'm happy they've been able to produce as well and I didn't think removing Boyle would cause them to completely stop scoring. I also don't expect Demers to be as good as Boyle, he's filled in as well as can be expected.

I think the PP production would drop if Boyle remained sidelined long term based on what I've seen but since it looks like his return to the line up is close it's not something I need to worry about.

I knew they'd miss his skating and puck movement at ES and that's been very apparent. They've also missed his contributions defensively.

All of these injuries could (should?) be looked at with that silver lining as the team has been able to win games and dominate some teams without some of their top players. I think it says a lot about the coaches and players.

 

[Led Zappa]

Still doesn't tell us much on it's own, but...

Fear The Fin ‏@fearthefin 7m

With Boyle in the lineup this season, the Sharks average 80 shots per 60 minutes of power play time. Without him, they average just 61.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

s/60 is what I like to look at. The fact that they've had two games w/ 3 PP goals isn't lost on me but the other 6 games w/o Boyle, the PP has not looked very good.

Couldn't you say the very same thing about Boyle especially last year? I think with the PP, it's pretty much whether it produces or not and I think it's being shown that whether it's Boyle or Demers, that 1st unit will still go.

 

[dwood16]

We need to ship out Brad Stuart. That guy will cost us if sees any post season ice. Ian White was a much better option than him and doesn't put us in a position to rely on Boyle so much. We can't expect Boyle to always be around when we need him. We need pmd depth.

 

[WTFetus]

The first unit still looks dominant, but the second unit sucks even more now (didn't know that was even possible). A gameshape Havlat and Burns should have a huge affect, but I think having Demers down there should help out too.

 

[Alwalys]

The first unit still looks dominant, but the second unit sucks even more now (didn't know that was even possible). A gameshape Havlat and Burns should have a huge affect, but I think having Demers down there should help out too.

lol i don't think there actually IS a second unit right now. it's a checking pp.

 

[WTFetus]

I also really liked Braun on the PP lately. Really showed his finesse at the blue line, keeping pucks in and moving laterally to open up a lane; something Irwin has trouble doing.

 

[ChubbChubby]

Second unit chips and grinds it out along the boards as if they were on the wrong side of specialty teams. They are so bad, but seriously what do they expect when they overload the first unit and leave the leftovers for the change? The Sharks are a single unit PP and I don't see a real problem with it if the first unit stays as creative and dominant as they have, but I really do wish the second unit could be even a tiny bit more polished. Hopefully Havlat will help when he gets in game shape, and Burns too.

 

[Lebanezer]

Second unit chips and grinds it out along the boards as if they were on the wrong side of specialty teams. They are so bad, but seriously what do they expect when they overload the first unit and leave the leftovers for the change? The Sharks are a single unit PP and I don't see a real problem with it if the first unit stays as creative and dominant as they have, but I really do wish the second unit could be even a tiny bit more polished. Hopefully Havlat will help when he gets in game shape, and Burns too.

A second unit of Havlat, Burns and Hertl should be pretty awesome.

 

[Alwalys]

that will be a czeching pp

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I also really liked Braun on the PP lately. Really showed his finesse at the blue line, keeping pucks in and moving laterally to open up a lane; something Irwin has trouble doing.

Havlat-Hertl-Burns
Braun-Demers

That has the making of a pretty good second unit when Boyle and Burns get back and Havlat gets into midseason form.

 

[SJeasy]

The first unit still looks dominant, but the second unit sucks even more now (didn't know that was even possible). A gameshape Havlat and Burns should have a huge affect, but I think having Demers down there should help out too.

They are struggling on second unit because they don't have a JT clone. They need a forward QB. Burns isn't it. Havlat hasn't done well in that role. Kennedy looks like he is trying it but is not very good. Hertl looks like he may have the vision but isn't quite quick enough. A lot of close but no cigars. I almost wish they would drop Pavs down as he is probably second best for the role on the team, but they would give up what he does around the net.

 

[WantonAbandon]

They are struggling on second unit because they don't have a JT clone. They need a forward QB. Burns isn't it. Havlat hasn't done well in that role. Kennedy looks like he is trying it but is not very good. Hertl looks like he may have the vision but isn't quite quick enough. A lot of close but no cigars. I almost wish they would drop Pavs down as he is probably second best for the role on the team, but they would give up what he does around the net.

Or when Boyle gets healthy, simply separate him and Thornton. Problem solved

 

[WTFetus]

I almost wish they would drop Pavs down as he is probably second best for the role on the team, but they would give up what he does around the net.

I was thinking the same (swapping Pavelski with Burns). Hard to break up such a dominant unit though.

 

[thirtysix*]

Its all hot air

Sharks are going to do fine this season. They got 85 more games to brush up and find what works and what doesnt. I'm excited as hell to see the ups and downs. There was a stretch of time last year where things were terrible. But look how they bounced back. Look how they bounced back from the boston last .8 secong goal in the next game. Every game is not the end all be all. Lets be positive for the sharks this year no matta what failure. Have faith they'll bounce back.

All the hate is just hot air

 

[68 Z-28]

I was disappointed watching the game last night. Sharks had the days off and it looked like they were the ones on the second half of a back to back. Hopefully coming back to San Jose will be re-evaluated and scratched later in the season when their next game isn't at home. Can't help but think they lost some focus of being on a 5 game road trip. Definitely don't have their A game against the Kings.

Even with all the negatives.... They picked up 7 of 10 points on a 5 game roadie. I'd take that all year.