Post-Game Talk: 10/30/13 Sharks at Kings. Sharks lose 3-4 in OT

do0glas

Registered User
Jan 26, 2012
13,271
683
I think as we get Boyle burns and Torres back we are going to see dips in our play. Lots of rust etc.

The lineup seems great with only nieto and hertl filling out the top nine as rookies. Add in shep minus burns and a havlat who hasn't played in7 months and you lose more than you gain over short term, but if havlat gets his legs under him and generates offense we will be better off long term.
 

slocal

Dude...what?
May 4, 2010
16,067
6,904
Central Coast CA
Regardless of the outcome, I always love Kings and Sharks games.


My peace offering

tumblr_lzvc4rcP9q1ql9fbgo1_400.gif

I will accept this. Is he playing Catstep?


For those getting in a tiffy about this. We have a tradition with Kings fans. Calm down.
 

KirbyDots

Registered User
May 10, 2011
11,627
3,191
Yeah, love the dance offs. Most Kings fans are pretty cool, up until they won the cup their fan base was in a very similar position to ours, a team that had never won a cup over a much longer period of time. It's only been the vast influx of fair weather fans post cup who are annoying and for the most part know nothing of hockey.

baby-finn-dancing-adventure-time-with-finn-and-jake-27555599-500-305_zps398a71a4.gif


I have a whole bunch of dance gifs that I keep just for Kings games/series!
 

oyster

Registered User
Jan 19, 2011
386
0
The defensemen mostly struggled tonight. I thought it was Braun's worst game. Had a terrible giveaway at the end of the 2nd, was way to aggressive on the play the resulted on the hooking of Carter and seemed to be getting knocked around. Stuart, atrocious. Irwin struggled as well, but he's only got like 50 games at the NHL level, I can understand wanting to have some patience with him. They keep pulling out points when they have a bad game and really are Couture's post shot away from pulling this one out. Going to be real nice when they get healthy, can't wait for Burns and Boyle to get back.

I've noticed this for a while. Braun plays well and I love how he gets his shot through from the point, but the guy falls down and gets knocked onto his ass all game long. I started noticing it last season. He really needs to get stronger on his skates.
 

Gilligans Island

Registered User
Jul 2, 2006
11,186
313
SF/Bay Area
Play bad or trade for a player they hate or draft someone they know nothing about. Even to sign for a contract that they can complain about.

My Polyanna outlook on this game, with Kool-aid in hand and wearing my San Jose Sharks Media tie, we scored 3 on Quick and we didn't even look like a cohesive team. We pulled out a valuable point when we are missing some very valuable players. Let's see the Kings do without, say, Brown and Doughty. Equal??

I'd say Richards or Carter more so than Brown. Other than checking, Brown doesn't impress me as far as impact on a game. I.e., Burns > Brown.

If that's the case, roles reverse, I think we'd kick the snot out of the Kings at home without Richards and Doughty. Granted Doughty > Boyle, IMO.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Alaskanice

Registered User
Sep 23, 2009
6,153
6,442
1 1/2 hours away
I'd say Richards or Carter more so than Brown. Other than checking, Brown doesn't impress me as far as impact on a game. I.e., Burns > Brown.

If that's the case, roles reverse, I think we'd kick the snot out of the Kings at home without Richards and Doughty. Granted Doughty > Boyle, IMO.

I would agree that Doughty is better than Boyle but in terms of their importance to their repective teams, I'd consider them equals.
 

hockfan1991

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
2,073
296
If nieto is back sat. Do you them putting him up with Thornton? Either that or havlat the second line isn't changing. We need another good winger on that line badly
 

sr228

Registered User
Sep 16, 2007
7,113
0
Irwin doesn't look comfortable out there. I'm guessing he's missing Boyle in a huge way.

The defense in general misses Boyle (a lot!) but Irwin, much like Stuart and Hannan, needs a mobile PMD as his partner to succeed.

Since the Demers/Hannan pairing has been mostly fine I have no issues with the coaches trying Irwin and Stuart together, seeing as the alternative is Hannan/Stuart which they've gone to in the last couple of games. However, neither of those pairings have been very good and they finally got burned for it last night.

This stretch of games have certainly shown how important Boyle is and once he gets back I think the defense will settle back into what it was for the second half of last season and the beginning of this one.

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, and obviously it's only one game after 5+ months of not playing, but Havlat didn't look like he was even trying to accelerate last night. His first step also looked very off - hopefully it's just rust / needing to get back up to game speed but considering the surgery he went through I'm a little bit worried that those parts of his skating might not return to his pre-surgery form. I hope I'm very wrong about that.

All in all, it was a very sloppy game from the Sharks and they still managed to get a point out of it. 7 out of 10 points on a 5 game road trip is pretty great.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
70,240
13,611
Folsom
The defense in general misses Boyle (a lot!) but Irwin, much like Stuart and Hannan, needs a mobile PMD as his partner to succeed.

Since the Demers/Hannan pairing has been mostly fine I have no issues with the coaches trying Irwin and Stuart together, seeing as the alternative is Hannan/Stuart which they've gone to in the last couple of games. However, neither of those pairings have been very good and they finally got burned for it last night.

This stretch of games have certainly shown how important Boyle is and once he gets back I think the defense will settle back into what it was for the second half of last season and the beginning of this one.

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, and obviously it's only one game after 5+ months of not playing, but Havlat didn't look like he was even trying to accelerate last night. His first step also looked very off - hopefully it's just rust / needing to get back up to game speed but considering the surgery he went through I'm a little bit worried that those parts of his skating might not return to his pre-surgery form. I hope I'm very wrong about that.

All in all, it was a very sloppy game from the Sharks and they still managed to get a point out of it. 7 out of 10 points on a 5 game road trip is pretty great.

It's been six months since Havlat has played a full game. Him being tentative in his first game w/o a preseason isn't surprising. He's going to need at least a handful of games to get into game shape and hopefully in that time develop some chemistry. His hands are still there. His mind for the game is still there. If that's his speed going forward, it's actually not that bad but it's not the game-breaking Havlat speed we know from before. Getting into game shape and getting more confidence in himself coming off that surgery probably helps in that regard.

The guy I saw out there is a guy that can still help this team and a guy that I feel will only get better as time goes on as long as he stays healthy. Patience, kimosabe. :D
 

DarrylshutzSydor

Registered User
Aug 9, 2007
2,384
531
California
I've noticed this for a while. Braun plays well and I love how he gets his shot through from the point, but the guy falls down and gets knocked onto his ass all game long. I started noticing it last season. He really needs to get stronger on his skates.

Didn't Braun finish the game +2?
 

SJeasy

Registered User
Feb 3, 2005
12,538
3
San Jose
The defense in general misses Boyle (a lot!) but Irwin, much like Stuart and Hannan, needs a mobile PMD as his partner to succeed.

Since the Demers/Hannan pairing has been mostly fine I have no issues with the coaches trying Irwin and Stuart together, seeing as the alternative is Hannan/Stuart which they've gone to in the last couple of games. However, neither of those pairings have been very good and they finally got burned for it last night.

This stretch of games have certainly shown how important Boyle is and once he gets back I think the defense will settle back into what it was for the second half of last season and the beginning of this one.

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, and obviously it's only one game after 5+ months of not playing, but Havlat didn't look like he was even trying to accelerate last night. His first step also looked very off - hopefully it's just rust / needing to get back up to game speed but considering the surgery he went through I'm a little bit worried that those parts of his skating might not return to his pre-surgery form. I hope I'm very wrong about that.

All in all, it was a very sloppy game from the Sharks and they still managed to get a point out of it. 7 out of 10 points on a 5 game road trip is pretty great.
The times that they have gone to Hannan/Stuart, they have been burned badly this year. Stuart/Irwin plus Demers/Hannan works better. When they pair Stuart and Hannan, the shotclock is not so much in the Sharks favor. I haven't figured exactly why yet.

The first unit PP has modestly improved without Boyle but the sample size is way too small.
 

sr228

Registered User
Sep 16, 2007
7,113
0
The times that they have gone to Hannan/Stuart, they have been burned badly this year. Stuart/Irwin plus Demers/Hannan works better. When they pair Stuart and Hannan, the shotclock is not so much in the Sharks favor. I haven't figured exactly why yet.

The first unit PP has modestly improved without Boyle but the sample size is way too small.

No, it hasn't but I don't look at the PP the same way you do.

Irwin/Stuart has been a disaster together. The reason Hannan/Stuart doesn't work, is because they both have some skating issues, neither can skate very with the puck and they both have a hard time moving the puck so they end up getting stuck in their own zone.
 

SJeasy

Registered User
Feb 3, 2005
12,538
3
San Jose
No, it hasn't but I don't look at the PP the same way you do.

Irwin/Stuart has been a disaster together. The reason Hannan/Stuart doesn't work, is because they both have some skating issues, neither can skate very with the puck and they both have a hard time moving the puck so they end up getting stuck in their own zone.
By the numbers it has improved. I agree that it seems to fail the eyeball test, Demers vs. Boyle. My guess is that they are using Demers less than Boyle but that they are moving the puck more quickly among the rest of the unit. They also seem to be using JT less as well.
 

sr228

Registered User
Sep 16, 2007
7,113
0
By the numbers it has improved. I agree that it seems to fail the eyeball test, Demers vs. Boyle. My guess is that they are using Demers less than Boyle but that they are moving the puck more quickly among the rest of the unit. They also seem to be using JT less as well.

What numbers are those?
 

Captain Mittens*

Guest
Yeah, love the dance offs. Most Kings fans are pretty cool, up until they won the cup their fan base was in a very similar position to ours, a team that had never won a cup over a much longer period of time. It's only been the vast influx of fair weather fans post cup who are annoying and for the most part know nothing of hockey.

baby-finn-dancing-adventure-time-with-finn-and-jake-27555599-500-305_zps398a71a4.gif


I have a whole bunch of dance gifs that I keep just for Kings games/series!

Concur.

I wish I could deport a few of our loser fairweather fans. That's a good thing about this new division format. We should see more playoff series with you guys.

Until next time

tumblr_inline_ml08653OA41qz4rgp.gif
 

sr228

Registered User
Sep 16, 2007
7,113
0
gf60 for the other guys on the unit. It isn't much but is there.

I've already said that I don't agree that looking at gf/60 is the best way to analyze a PP but since you do, are you going to post those gf/60 numbers with and w/o Boyle?
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
70,240
13,611
Folsom
gf60 for the other guys on the unit. It isn't much but is there.

Their percentage says the same. The PP was 21.7% with Boyle and 22.2% with Demers. And now that Demers has been given this opportunity, he's on a 44 point pace for the season. People said that the PP would die without Boyle and that Demers couldn't step in and produce. Even though it is a small sample size, it is signalling that that is an inaccurate statement.
 

do0glas

Registered User
Jan 26, 2012
13,271
683
gf60 for the other guys on the unit. It isn't much but is there.

Why would you use an individual stat for a units effectiveness?

Look at s/60 and % of the unit. You get more data points for shots when the sample is smaller.

If Demers is a detriment you'd see a decrease in both. If he's a positive, you might see lateral or more shots per 60. He is getting the hang of the DESIGNED entry plays; he can penetrate and push the defensive blue line back for a drop pass and quick up to the boards. Irwin can't which is why he dumps on the pp.

If I had the games recorded it would be interesting to track clean entries while Boyle is there versus Demers.
 

hohosaregood

Banned
Sep 1, 2011
32,281
12,447
I've already said that I don't agree that looking at gf/60 is the best way to analyze a PP but since you do, are you going to post those gf/60 numbers with and w/o Boyle?

I agree with you. Shots per 60 seem to indicate a "good PP" while Goals per 60 seem to indicate a "successful PP". I don't know the numbers for either but just felt like saying it.
 

SJeasy

Registered User
Feb 3, 2005
12,538
3
San Jose
I've already said that I don't agree that looking at gf/60 is the best way to analyze a PP but since you do, are you going to post those gf/60 numbers with and w/o Boyle?
I will when I get the chance. I check the numbers at behindthenet and they don't allow you to block out games so I will have to do it myself. I will do it shortly after Boyle returns.
Their percentage says the same. The PP was 21.7% with Boyle and 22.2% with Demers. And now that Demers has been given this opportunity, he's on a 44 point pace for the season. People said that the PP would die without Boyle and that Demers couldn't step in and produce. Even though it is a small sample size, it is signalling that that is an inaccurate statement.
Early in the season, the team got a boost on PP from the second unit without Boyle. The gap is a little wider.
 

do0glas

Registered User
Jan 26, 2012
13,271
683
I agree with you. Shots per 60 seem to indicate a "good PP" while Goals per 60 seem to indicate a "successful PP". I don't know the numbers for either but just felt like saying it.

You're not wrong. The percentage and number of power plays is more important as far as efficiency goes. We generally do very well with lower chances. Having elite skaters like Boyle and elite passers like Thornton will generally do that. But Tmac also coaches some really clever ways for clean entries.

I've never been of the opinion that the pp dies without Boyle...I argued more that he is fine, even good at evens with a guy like Irwin.

The QBing to me starts behind our own net on a pp. I feel like a lot of us here may see that differently, but Boyle or Demers may not be a part of every pp goal in the zone. If an entry is generated for Marleau who takes up position in will inevitably swing to Thornton. Then pieces will begin to shuffle until we get someone open.

I'm happy for Demers. I think he's slower moving the puck tape to tape on a power play. But you keep giving him that chance and I think he would grow into it.

I also think with hertl, burns, havlat, Braun, Demers you have the pieces to emulate the first unit.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->