GDT: 10/25/2019 Game 11: Buffalo Sabres @ Detroit Red Wings (7:30pm EST

[Winger98]

Something has gotta give here. Either fire the coach, make a trade, make some drastic lineup changes...something has to happen. Honestly, if they don't do anything, and just keep trucking along, they are sending the fans the message that they are content with losing.

I'm going to watch the 2008 champs DVD with a 6 pack. See you all on Sunday for another thrilling edition of Red Wings hockey .

they didn't add anything of note in the offseason and packed the vast majority of prospects off to GR or back to their respective junior or euro leagues for seasoning. The message that this was a junk year that was being thrown away for the sake of trying for another high pick should have been clear.

At this point, making a trade for an immediate upgrade that won't also be a significant asset five years from now would probably be a misuse of assets. If the goal is to season the prospects in lower leagues this season, it's also pretty difficult to significantly change the lineup. You can fire the coach, but the next guy will have the same crap roster which is going to result in a bunch of losing. Just like with Blashill.

Want to see the wings improve now? Start hoping the guys who can play better (notably Athansiou and Hirose) actually do it because I think that's where the improvement has to come from. The bigger hope is that some kids take some big steps in GR/Europe/juniors this year, and we start seeing more talent filtered into the lineup next season that way, and through a very high pick in the next draft.

edit: what has Blashill done? He's done a pretty good job working young kids coming up from GR into being pretty good NHLers. Larkin and Bertuzzi look good. Mantha is actually showing up on a pretty consistent basis now. Hronek is looking more and more like a top3 D. Personally, I think Cholowski still looks really promising. Hell, even Athanasiou appeared to have turned a major corner last season (only to appear to regress this year, can't win'em all).

I haven't been Blashill's biggest fan over the years (just ask @The Zetterberg Era who has defended Blash against me more than a few times) but it seems like he gets a lot out of the younger players and guides them forward. It's been really ugly, but a lot of these kids do keep making progress under him. And I think that is what management is mainly looking at right now.

 

[RedWingzz]

they didn't add anything of note in the offseason and packed the vast majority of prospects off to GR or back to their respective junior or euro leagues for seasoning. The message that this was a junk year that was being thrown away for the sake of trying for another high pick should have been clear.

At this point, making a trade for an immediate upgrade that won't also be a significant asset five years from now would probably be a misuse of assets. If the goal is to season the prospects in lower leagues this season, it's also pretty difficult to significantly change the lineup. You can fire the coach, but the next guy will have the same crap roster which is going to result in a bunch of losing. Just like with Blashill.

Want to see the wings improve now? Start hoping the guys who can play better (notably Athansiou and Hirose) actually do it because I think that's where the improvement has to come from. The bigger hope is that some kids take some big steps in GR/Europe/juniors this year, and we start seeing more talent filtered into the lineup next season that way, and through a very high pick in the next draft.

Might as well fire Blash and just hire an interim coach. There is nothing to lose, and Blashill's philosophy is obviously stale. Promote Bylsma and see what happens.

And yea AA has to be better. As for Hirose, hes horrible. I thought Nyquist was soft, but Hirose is another level of soft. He has the skill, but he is not strong enough to be in the NHL at the moment.

And as for the trade, I just meant something to shake things up. I agree, there is no use in trading for immediate help, but trade what you can for futures and call more guys up from GR. Call up Terry or Puempel, at least they are producing in GR.

 

[Ishad]

Fire Blash!

Your wish is granted, who are you hiring?

 

[Winger98]

Might as well fire Blash and just hire an interim coach. There is nothing to lose, and Blashill's philosophy is obviously stale. Promote Bylsma and see what happens.

And yea AA has to be better. As for Hirose, hes horrible. I thought Nyquist was soft, but Hirose is another level of soft. He has the skill, but he is not strong enough to be in the NHL at the moment.

My thoughts on Blashill are above, sorry, I was editing them while you replied. I'm not sure Hirose is soft, but I think you're right about him just not having enough strength. I mean, I see him go into the corners and to the boards, but he just can't win those battles. Some of it might be inexperience still (he's played all of, what, 20 NHL games in his career?) but he needs to make more plays. I thought he looked better tonight, at least in the period I got to see.

edit: I wouldn't be against bringing up a guy like Terry or Puempel, but the Wings might want those guys down there to help foster a better environment for Veleno, Rasmussen, Zadina, etc.

Right now, I'm hoping we see the wings keep Smith and Svechnikov up and in the lineup. I think the Wings look like a harder matchup with those two in the lineup.

 

[deca guard]

a though i keep having every game is how high of hockey iq tuzzi and mantha both have , they are both very heads up players that make some thing out of nothing on a constant basis . and both are always making plays that give us more time controling the puck . and you know what theyve in common ? family members that are ex nhlers that no doubt were programing them , mentally developing , since their first steps . and hockey is thee absolute example of a sport where quick thought is the most valuable weapon , and these two been going to hockey school since birth

 

[Hen Kolland]

I understand what you are saying, and yes, Blashill cant lace them up and score goals himself, but at this point what do we have to lose by letting him go? Look around the NHL at coaching changes since Blash took over. Why is his leash so much longer than others?

This organization has always taken pride in being loyal to its members, but enough is enough. This is the NHL, sometimes you have to put loyalty aside and realize you are running a business , and the product the wings are selling at the moment is terrible. Whether you like it or not, the pro sports industry is a fickle business where at times coaches have to pay for the shortcomings of their team. Blashill's ship has sailed. Why not just change it up, we've lost 7 in a row....

I will break it down to make a few points and try to keep them relatively short.

#1 is obvious. The talent isn’t there. I work in accounting with I can safely say 100% of my work requiring a computer. If you told me “do your job the same way you always do it, but we are taking away your mouse and your keyboard” do you think replacing me when I’m unable to do my job effectively is going to accomplish anything? Whoever is brought in, are they going to be able to effectively do the job without the tools the absolutely need?

#2, the act of firing someone for the sake of firing someone has never made sense to me. If we had a defined plan like “Fire Blashill and Hire Scotty Bowman” that was realistic, then f*** yeah, let’s make the move. But right now the plan is “fire Blashill”....and what? Appoint Bylsma? Why? And this plays into #3, which is, even if we wanted to have a defined plan, there is nobody on the coaching market worth employing. In fact, if you fired Blashill and another team was looking for a coach, they’d probably make him their first phone call.

And lastly, I’m not a believer that Blashill has lost the room. Larkin and Mantha have both credited Blashill as being a key role in their development over time. Players like Bertuzzi, Athanasiou, Hronek have all shown growth over the past couple of years. Yeah, it looks bad right now, but I’m not a believer that this is the team quitting, I’m a believer that the team is just THAT overmatched. I don’t want to make a decision to fire a coach who seemingly has had a decent rapport developed with some of the younger core players in past years without knowing that he’s absolutely lost the team.

I know this is a time bomb. There comes a point where even a bad team can’t justify an extended losing streak, and the coach is going to get fired. I’m just not at the point where I think an in-season change is the right call. If the discussion is “do we make a change at the end of the year?” then I will entertain any and all options. But at this moment, I don’t watch the game and say “wtf is Blashill doing” it’s more of disbelief that we find ourself this outmatched talent wise, which was even more than I anticipated.

 

[Goalie guy]

No point in getting mad a arguing with each other! Our team sucks, yes it sucks, we knew they where going to suck, they are going to suck for at least 3-4 more years. Even at that point we will be lucky to be a bubble team. No it's not Blash's fault but shit roll's down hill, Kenny is gone hes next. I think we are going to see some players go we really don't want to see go, but it is what it is.

 

[Winger98]

No point in getting mad a arguing with each other! Our team sucks, yes it sucks, we knew they where going to suck, they are going to suck for at least 3-4 more years. Even at that point we will be lucky to be a bubble team. No it's not Blash's fault but **** roll's down hill, Kenny is gone hes next. I think we are going to see some players go we really don't want to see go, but it is what it is.

yeah, I'm expecting this, too. I think Larkin is safe. After that...I have to think there's a price out there for pretty much everyone on the NHL roster. Some prices might be pretty high, but they are definitely in play.

 

[RedWingzz]

I will break it down to make a few points and try to keep them relatively short.

#1 is obvious. The talent isn’t there. I work in accounting with I can safely say 100% of my work requiring a computer. If you told me “do your job the same way you always do it, but we are taking away your mouse and your keyboard” do you think replacing me when I’m unable to do my job effectively is going to accomplish anything? Whoever is brought in, are they going to be able to effectively do the job without the tools the absolutely need?

#2, the act of firing someone for the sake of firing someone has never made sense to me. If we had a defined plan like “Fire Blashill and Hire Scotty Bowman” that was realistic, then **** yeah, let’s make the move. But right now the plan is “fire Blashill”....and what? Appoint Bylsma? Why? And this plays into #3, which is, even if we wanted to have a defined plan, there is nobody on the coaching market worth employing. In fact, if you fired Blashill and another team was looking for a coach, they’d probably make him their first phone call.

And lastly, I’m not a believer that Blashill has lost the room. Larkin and Mantha have both credited Blashill as being a key role in their development over time. Players like Bertuzzi, Athanasiou, Hronek have all shown growth over the past couple of years. Yeah, it looks bad right now, but I’m not a believer that this is the team quitting, I’m a believer that the team is just THAT overmatched. I don’t want to make a decision to fire a coach who seemingly has had a decent rapport developed with some of the younger core players in past years without knowing that he’s absolutely lost the team.

I know this is a time bomb. There comes a point where even a bad team can’t justify an extended losing streak, and the coach is going to get fired. I’m just not at the point where I think an in-season change is the right call. If the discussion is “do we make a change at the end of the year?” then I will entertain any and all options. But at this moment, I don’t watch the game and say “wtf is Blashill doing” it’s more of disbelief that we find ourself this outmatched talent wise, which was even more than I anticipated.

We wouldn't be firing Blashill for the sake of firing someone. We would be firing him because he hasn't gotten the job done. This is the 4th year in a row under his belt that the team sucks. We would be firing him because the team has had no success under his leadership. Of course he hasn't had the talent to work with, but it is what it is. Name me another organization that has kept their coach after 4 losing seasons...

If they fire him, at least management and ownership are sending the message that they are not happy with the team. You can't honestly tell me that you can envision Blashill leading this team anywhere, so might as well get the inevitable out of the way now and let the players try to learn from somebody else.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Blash has done a great job. He's continually put us in position to get a top 5 pick. Hopefully he can get us the #1 pick this year. I'm fine with Yzerman cutting him loose whenever he feels the time is right but for now he's doing a great job getting us picks near the very top of the lottery. As far as trades go, I would definitely try to move Mantha for a very good d-man who is either in or just entering his prime, or a top rated d-man prospect. Mantha has been lighting it up and his value will likely never be higher. If we can get a really good d-man/prospect to go with Hronek and Seider that will help move the rebuild along. Then you get a #1 center in this upcoming draft and you can see how we start to trend up in a couple years.

For now though, we need to capitalize on being one of the 2 or 3 worst teams in the league.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

yeah, I'm expecting this, too. I think Larkin is safe. After that...I have to think there's a price out there for pretty much everyone on the NHL roster. Some prices might be pretty high, but they are definitely in play.

I think Larkin, Hronek, Seider, Veleno, Zadina are safe barring huge overpayment. Mantha & Bert are safe, but to a slightly lesser degree. DDK is still fairly safe, despite the contract. Cholo could be in play. AA & Green are our trade chips is my guess + 2nd/3rd or later rd.pick(s).

 

[Hen Kolland]

We wouldn't be firing Blashill for the sake of firing someone. We would be firing him because he hasn't gotten the job done. This is the 4th year in a row under his belt that the team sucks. We would be firing him because the team has had no success under his leadership. Of course he hasn't had the talent to work with, but it is what it is. Name me another organization that has kept their coach after 4 losing seasons...

If they fire him, at least management and ownership are sending the message that they are not happy with the team. You can't honestly tell me that you can envision Blashill leading this team anywhere, so might as well get the inevitable out of the way now and let the players try to learn from somebody else.

I’d argue that it is firing him for the sake of firing him. If the team were judging him on his win loss record, he would not have been around to start the season. If the team wanted to send a message of what is and isn’t acceptable, they would not have organized this roster. It wouldn’t have been Filppula they pursued, it would have been the Kevin Hayes type player. They wouldn’t have brought on Nemeth, they would have made the deal for Trouba. Every step of the way they’ve built this team with the intent of being bad, so it’s kind of hard to judge the coach on his ability to make it good.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I think Yzerman should trade away AA and Mantha. They look like they are just going to end up being very expensive spare parts. I see no reason to keep them around for another 5-6 years, when the Wings still haven't drafted their foundation.

 

[MBH]

they didn't add anything of note in the offseason and packed the vast majority of prospects off to GR or back to their respective junior or euro leagues for seasoning. The message that this was a junk year that was being thrown away for the sake of trying for another high pick should have been clear.

At this point, making a trade for an immediate upgrade that won't also be a significant asset five years from now would probably be a misuse of assets. If the goal is to season the prospects in lower leagues this season, it's also pretty difficult to significantly change the lineup. You can fire the coach, but the next guy will have the same crap roster which is going to result in a bunch of losing. Just like with Blashill.

Want to see the wings improve now? Start hoping the guys who can play better (notably Athansiou and Hirose) actually do it because I think that's where the improvement has to come from. The bigger hope is that some kids take some big steps in GR/Europe/juniors this year, and we start seeing more talent filtered into the lineup next season that way, and through a very high pick in the next draft.

edit: what has Blashill done? He's done a pretty good job working young kids coming up from GR into being pretty good NHLers. Larkin and Bertuzzi look good. Mantha is actually showing up on a pretty consistent basis now. Hronek is looking more and more like a top3 D. Personally, I think Cholowski still looks really promising. Hell, even Athanasiou appeared to have turned a major corner last season (only to appear to regress this year, can't win'em all).

I haven't been Blashill's biggest fan over the years (just ask @The Zetterberg Era who has defended Blash against me more than a few times) but it seems like he gets a lot out of the younger players and guides them forward. It's been really ugly, but a lot of these kids do keep making progress under him. And I think that is what management is mainly looking at right now.

AA is going to improve.
Hirose won't. He's not NHL caliber.
Hopefully, Svech is. His skating is a fairly substantial concern though.

I expected to lose this year. I hoped our improving youth would make up for the loss of Nyquist and, perhaps, Kronwall.
That's not happening.

The signings of Nemeth and Filppula and the trade for Erne have not been fruitful.

I don't expect nor do I want to make the playoffs. But I'm not enjoying what this looks like.
And I don't see how much longer Yzerman can ignore this trash fire.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

Take a peek in the mirror.

Helm was on the first line in order to spread the talent from the first line onto the second line. If you watched ANY Wings game over past couple of weeks, it’s glaringly obvious that Blashill is trying to find some form of lineup that can actually score. He’s moved Bertuzzi down and then up. Mantha down and then up. Svechnikov has played down and up. Glendening. Helm. Abdelkader. Hirose. Nielsen. Filppula. All of them have been moved trying to find something that resembles a scoring threat on the second or third line. Tonight was just another attempt by a coach to find a good mix.

So many people are ****ing oblivious to this concept and assume it’s just for ****s and gigs, but there’s a clear reason for it. And attacking a coach for it is as dense as it gets.

IF I have watched any Wings games.......lol. Huh? Ill stop there. Defend JB all you want. Using Helm on the first line is equivalent to throwing magic dust in the air for one last ditch effort.

So many people are not oblivious, yet frustrated with his inability to get the most out of his roster. Zero emotion, always moody, looks pissed off 98% of the time and he has run his course.

Get the blinders off. Its time for a change. He can not get this team motivated to play three periods of hockey and when he can, its always in some desperate/non-meaningful fashion.

Not sure how many Wings games you've watched, however, over my 35 years, ST Holder, and seeing every cup won, since 97"- live, I wouldn't question ones opinion about a coach who needs to go.

 

[saska sault]

Your wish is granted, who are you hiring?

Sheldon Keefe.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I didn't catch the game tonight but checked the box score. Svech with 7:17 TOI tonight. 11 shifts.

Think you've got him on a short enough leash there Blash?

 

[ricky0034]

coaches on bad teams get fired "for the sake of firing someone" all the time and with way less time than Blashill has had to boot

I mean this is his 5th season what do the people making that argument want us to do here? just keep him around till for the next half decade until the team stops sucking so much just to see what he can do then? no coach in the world gets that much rope let alone one thats yet to really even do anything in the NHL

 

[vladdy16]

Blashill has been way more active in making changes to his immediate, short term, and long term lineup than he has in the past. His system has looked good against good teams, and against hot teams. Our young guys are getting good experience, and they are being saved from miles and hardships when possible.

Blashills system players, and our young players, have been our best players. It's the spare parts(39,72,25,etc) that fans keep thinking are better than they actually are that are skewing perceptions here imo.

I could not stand the guy all the way until a few weeks ago. Imo, he's absolutely been a steady hand that we would miss if he was gone, and more importantly he seems to be opening up and improving as a coach while on the hot seat, w/ a new demanding front office.

He came out with a more offensive approach than would be expected against a team like BUF tonight, and was rewarded with a good first period where we limited shots/chances against anyways. I think he went a little too far and neglected the 1st line, and was being way too hopeful that Helm could sustain any kind of offensive impact, and that hurt us tonight. But overall I would say he is blending spontaneity and consistency pretty darn masterfully all things considered(our egregious lack of short/mid term depth).

2nd game in a row I'll go here though... the tape on Mantha does not paint a pretty picture. A poor mans Patrick Laine.

The amount of time Mantha is "unavailable" while on the ice is astounding. First guy up the ice, first guy back, stationary in the o-zone.

He's got a great skillset, and playing at his size can't be easy, and I understand his emphasis on keeping the motor idling, while playing the odds looking to step into a scoring chance. But the clock is running, and I'm starting to lean towards downgrading my expectations for his potential.

I realize this won't be a popular sentiment, and I'm not rooting for Mantha to prove me right by taking another spin next game. But I'm playing the hand where I'm willing to say, I don't know if Mantha will ever learn to win a puck on a forecheck, or move his feet on the half wall to rotate the defense and set up the offense.

I think 72 and 39 might just be the kind of players with great measurables but questionable hockey sense, that renders them more valuable as complimentary trade deadline scoring infusions for contenders than as core pieces for any one team or system.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think Yzerman should trade away AA and Mantha. They look like they are just going to end up being very expensive spare parts. I see no reason to keep them around for another 5-6 years, when the Wings still haven't drafted their foundation.

Jesus, what do you want our team to look like? Even if we draft two McDavid's, we need them to have players to play with.

We don't need to remove the little good we have in order to draft a foundation.

 

[Gyldenlove]

coaches on bad teams get fired "for the sake of firing someone" all the time and with way less time than Blashill has had to boot

I mean this is his 5th season what do the people making that argument want us to do here? just keep him around till for the next half decade until the team stops sucking so much just to see what he can do then? no coach in the world gets that much rope let alone one thats yet to really even do anything in the NHL

What would you accomplish by firing the coach?

There is nowhere near the talent on the this team to reach the playoffs anyway and honestly, if you are not reaching the playoffs then all you can do is what the Maple Leafs did for so long, keep yourself from drafting differencemakers.

Finally this season we can get some old contracts off the books, get rid of some bad deals and old players and we have a few young players with pedigree in the pipeline. The worst thing that can happen now is hiring some temp who gives a boost and has us drafting in the low teens.

 

[Dotter]

Stop making excuses for a coach who clearly is clueless. It’s only a matter of time. Doesn’t matter if a new coach can of can’t, JB has no emotion, doesn’t have fun and has no clue how to put the best lines out. Take the blinders off,m.

Best "lines"? Wings don't have best lines. They are occasionally a 1 line team some nights during the full moon and the stars perfectly align.

Demanding a coaching change is a simple-minded, short sighted, ignorant knee jerk reaction that doesn't solve or fix the core problem what-so-ever.

The team doesn't suck because of suck coaching; the team sucks because of a suck team. It's really that simple. Your anger is misguided.

"Be patience" ~ Steve Yzerman

Maybe consider watching Griffins' for a few years and ignore the Red Wings. They will be in [borderline] 80s suck mode for awhile. They just matched a 1989 record tonight, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[turkleton85]

Blashill has been way more active in making changes to his immediate, short term, and long term lineup than he has in the past. His system has looked good against good teams, and against hot teams. Our young guys are getting good experience, and they are being saved from miles and hardships when possible.

Blashills system players, and our young players, have been our best players. It's the spare parts(39,72,25,etc) that fans keep thinking are better than they actually are that are skewing perceptions here imo.

I could not stand the guy all the way until a few weeks ago. Imo, he's absolutely been a steady hand that we would miss if he was gone, and more importantly he seems to be opening up and improving as a coach while on the hot seat, w/ a new demanding front office.

He came out with a more offensive approach than would be expected against a team like BUF tonight, and was rewarded with a good first period where we limited shots/chances against anyways. I think he went a little too far and neglected the 1st line, and was being way too hopeful that Helm could sustain any kind of offensive impact, and that hurt us tonight. But overall I would say he is blending spontaneity and consistency pretty darn masterfully all things considered(our egregious lack of short/mid term depth).

2nd game in a row I'll go here though... the tape on Mantha does not paint a pretty picture. A poor mans Patrick Laine.

The amount of time Mantha is "unavailable" while on the ice is astounding. First guy up the ice, first guy back, stationary in the o-zone.

He's got a great skillset, and playing at his size can't be easy, and I understand his emphasis on keeping the motor idling, while playing the odds looking to step into a scoring chance. But the clock is running, and I'm starting to lean towards downgrading my expectations for his potential.

I realize this won't be a popular sentiment, and I'm not rooting for Mantha to prove me right by taking another spin next game. But I'm playing the hand where I'm willing to say, I don't know if Mantha will ever learn to win a puck on a forecheck, or move his feet on the half wall to rotate the defense and set up the offense.

I think 72 and 39 might just be the kind of players with great measurables but questionable hockey sense, that renders them more valuable as complimentary trade deadline scoring infusions for contenders than as core pieces for any one team or system.

Mantha has been our best player so far this season, and in my opinion has developed nicely. The effort is much better, and while i can't say anything about his forechecking, i think his backchecking is pretty good. He is driving the net more aggresivly and shows his great athleticism more often. IMO, he doesn't compare to laine.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Jesus, what do you want our team to look like? Even if we draft two McDavid's, we need them to have players to play with.

We don't need to remove the little good we have in order to draft a foundation.

Two out of the last three drafts saw the Wings take wingers with their top ten picks. If those players can't replace Mantha and AA, then it doesn't really matter since by the time the rebuild ends up being finished, Mantha and AA will be 35.

Cap space should be made available until the Wings actually have a real core.

 

[Dotter]

This tells me we didn't have enough HDCF and/or their goalie stood on his head + they blocked more.

View attachment 269011

Ullmark was a BEAST in net. Don't let the pundits tell you Wings' offense made him look like Hasek. He made some incredible saves. Notably, both Larkin and Mantha had some brilliant scoring chances.

Hate it when fans' can't give credit when credit is due. He was star of the game