GDT: 10/15/23 - 7:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Ottawa

[Rschmitz]

A king's ransom = other guys we have to sign that take away cap space too.. not that simple

Same situation as JD. In an alternate universe we could have re-signed Drouin, imagine how that could have torpedoed our cup aspirations.

Instead we dealt him, got a good player in return, and with the extra cap space we re-signed McDonagh and brought in the right complimentary players.

It was way more complicated, but that move won us two cups. Signing Sergachev for 8.5 million is the exact same thing Montreal did in banking on significant improvement over time that never materialized.

I think way too many people here are handwaving the kind of investment we made on Sergachev for him not to produce.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

I think way too many people here are handwaving the kind of investment we made on Sergachev for him not to produce.

I’m going to overlook the persecution complex rearing up here lately, and just ask that you quantify this. Since it’s currently nebulous. What production is inadequate, and when.

 

[Rschmitz]

I’m going to overlook the persecution complex rearing up here lately, and just ask that you quantify this. Since it’s currently nebulous. What production is inadequate, and when.

Great, sure let's quantify it(thought you said you weren't a Sergachev apologist?). Sergachev is the 12th highest paid defensemen in the NHL. 12th. He's paid almost as much as Makar and almost a million more than Hedman. When we can't name 12 defensemen better than Sergachev his production will be adequate. Hope that's clear

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Great, sure let's quantify it(thought you said you weren't a Sergachev apologist?). Sergachev is the 12th highest paid defensemen in the NHL. 12th. He's paid almost as much as Makar and almost a million more than Hedman. When we can't name 12 defensemen better than Sergachev his production will be adequate. Hope that's clear

Well, no because stratifying is inherently subjective and you have once again used the vague term production.

To force conversation, I’d consider serge currently better than:

- seth jones
- drew doughty
- Darnell nurse
- Zach werenski

And probably equivalent to dougie Hamilton. And they all make more than serge.

 

[DMB06]

It's going to be really interesting to see what we do with Stammer at the deadline if what we've seen so far from the team continues. If you can't stomach the thought of him playing elsewhere, you better hope this team starts to win some games. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him finishing the season with another team.

 

[Rschmitz]

Well, no because stratifying is inherently subjective and you have once again used the vague term production.

55% dzone starts and in the top 12 in points

 

[RussianGuyovich]

55% dzone starts and in the top 12 in points

Well the former is in the coaches purview and out of his control, and the latter he accomplished last season.

 

[Sky04]

Perry is on an absolute tear, good thing we got faster on the 4th line though.

 

[These Are The Days]

Well, no because stratifying is inherently subjective and you have once again used the vague term production.

To force conversation, I’d consider serge currently better than:

- seth jones
- drew doughty
- Darnell nurse
- Zach werenski

And probably equivalent to dougie Hamilton. And they all make more than serge.

I don't know if that helped your cause much but they're all either old, overpaid on bad teams or just all 3

 

[RussianGuyovich]

I don't know if that helped your cause much but they're all either old, overpaid on bad teams or just all 3

That’s ok. It’s because you dont understand the conversation.

 

[These Are The Days]

That’s ok. It’s because you dont understand the conversation.

Do I need to? I'm like 97.4% sure that Serg could make 3 Perbix turnovers for goals and get blown by for goals like last night and be -9 by next week and you'd still tell me to stick it. Doesn't bother me any because I'm a believer in him. But he needs to be better if the Lightning want any chance going forward

 

[LightningStrikes]

Perry is on an absolute tear, good thing we got faster on the 4th line though.

He has a $4 million cap hit though.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Do I need to? I'm like 97.4% sure that Serg could make 3 Perbix turnovers for goals and get blown by for goals like last night and be -9 by next week and you'd still tell me to stick it. Doesn't bother me any because I'm a believer in him. But he needs to be better if the Lightning want any chance going forward

No I’m ok talking about current players.

Again, your statement isn’t germane to my conversation.

 

[Stammertime91]

He has a $4 million cap hit though.

Would've been $1.50 here cause "taxes."

 

[centipede2233]

We need to trade for a 1b type goalie like Jones or Maf. We aren't going to win many games with either current goalie and the defense isn't doing the team goalies much help.

That’s the problem when you invest 9.5 mil into a goalie, if your 9.5 mil goalie has an injury your screwed….

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

That’s the problem when you invest 9.5 mil into a goalie, if your 9.5 mil goalie has an injury your screwed….

You could say that about any team losing one of their most important players. What is Edmonton without McDavid or Toronto without Matthews? How good is Colorado without MacKinnon or Makar? (And note what the cap hit is for all of those guys). Vasy has been a healthy work horse the past few years. Things happen, what can you do? You can spend to shore up a backup that might never see more than 20 games, and that takes away from somewhere else. Trust us, we know what it's like having seen Ben Bishop go down in both the 2015 Stanley Cup finals and 2016 Eastern conference finals to the eventually cup champs.

 

[centipede2233]

You could say that about any team losing one of their most important players. What is Edmonton without McDavid or Toronto without Matthews? How good is Colorado without MacKinnon or Makar? (And note what the cap hit is for all of those guys). Vasy has been a healthy work horse the past few years. Things happen, what can you do? You can spend to shore up a backup that might never see more than 20 games, and that takes away from somewhere else. Trust us, we know what it's like having seen Ben Bishop go down in both the 2015 Stanley Cup finals and 2016 Eastern conference finals to the eventually cup champs.

That’s the problem, is you can’t have your starter be a workhorse. Steve Valiquette who is a former rangers goalie and covers the rangers was on the real kyper and Bourne podcast. He said that most cup champions who was the starting goalie for most of their cup run, had fewer then 60 gp.

2023 - A.Hill 27 reg season gp
2022 - Kuemper 57 gp
2021 - Vasilevsky 42 gp
2020 - Vasilevsky 52 gp
2019 - Binnington 32 gp
2018 - Holtby 54 gp
2017 - Fleury 38 gp
2016 - M.Murray 15 gp
2015 - Crawford 57 gp
2014 - Quick 49 gp
2013 - Crawford 30 gp
2012 - Quick 69 gp

So you would have to go back to 2012 for a cup champion who won with their starter having more then 60 reg season gp.

Coincidentally, the last 2 years where Tampa didn’t win the cup, Vasi had 63 and 60 gp in each reg season. You cant over work your starter, it won’t end well for you. Now the blessing is that vasi won’t get to 60 gp cause of the injury so he should be fresh if Tampa gets to the playoffs which I think they will, so there’s that

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

That’s the problem, is you can’t have your starter be a workhorse. Steve Valiquette who is a former rangers goalie and covers the rangers was on the real kyper and Bourne podcast. He said that most cup champions who was the starting goalie for most of their cup run, had fewer then 60 gp.

2023 - A.Hill 27 reg season gp
2022 - Kuemper 57 gp
2021 - Vasilevsky 42 gp
2020 - Vasilevsky 52 gp
2019 - Binnington 32 gp
2018 - Holtby 54 gp
2017 - Fleury 38 gp
2016 - M.Murray 15 gp
2015 - Crawford 57 gp
2014 - Quick 49 gp
2013 - Crawford 30 gp
2012 - Quick 69 gp

So you would have to go back to 2012 for a cup champion who won with their starter having more then 60 reg season gp.

Coincidentally, the last 2 years where Tampa didn’t win the cup, Vasi had 63 and 60 gp in each reg season. You cant over work your starter, it won’t end well for you. Now the blessing is that vasi won’t get to 60 gp cause of the injury so he should be fresh if Tampa gets to the playoffs which I think they will, so there’s that

There’s also a problem if you don’t have a true goaltender. I see so many teams that lack what we have and therefore never do anything in the playoffs and go nowhere. And the ones that are flashes in a pan, 1 good playoff run, those cup windows close real quick. Without Vasy, we don’t have our cups, we don’t go deep in those other years. Heck, without Khabby we don’t have the first one.

 

[centipede2233]

There’s also a problem if you don’t have a true goaltender. I see so many teams that lack what we have and therefore never do anything in the playoffs and go nowhere. And the ones that are flashes in a pan, 1 good playoff run, those cup windows close real quick. Without Vasy, we don’t have our cups, we don’t go deep in those other years. Heck, without Khabby we don’t have the first one.

It actually comes down to having a low caphit for a goalie. Vasi was a 3.5 mil caphit in your first cup win in 2020. Then he was a 9.5 mil caphit in the second but that was offset when kucherov 9.5 mil was buried on ltir.

2023 - A.Hill ELC
2022 - Kuemper 4.5 mil caphit
2021 - Vasi 9.5 mil caphit (kucherov on LTIR 9.5 mil to offset)
2020 - Vasi 3.5 mil
2019 - Binnington ELC
2018 - Holtby 6.1 mil (lost his starter job and motivated to win back)
2017 - Fleury 5.75 mil (lost his starter job and motivated to win back)
2016 - Murray ELC
2015 - Crawford 6 mil

Goalies need to be motivated