GDT: 1/16/20 - 8:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Minnesota

[LightningStrikes]

When was the last time we won against those guys at home? Feels like 7 or 8 losses in a row.

 

[Todd1a]

When was the last time we won against those guys at home? Feels like 7 or 8 losses in a row.

Lol I feel like we always lose to Minnesota lol knew we would again

 

[FinnLightning26]

Why do we keep losing to this shit team?

 

[HoseEmDown]

I just don't get Cooper and his time distribution. I can see giving Stamkos, Kucherov and Point 20 minutes if they're on all game and its working but when they are playing like trash for most of it why are we still trotting them out every other shift? Stamkos was trash all game except for one big hit, took a stupid penalty either right before or after, and kept getting thrown out there. Point was crap till we were down two goals. Kucherov was the best of the 3 but even with the two goals wasn't great. None of the forwards really stood out in a good way last night so if nobody's really working why not just spread the minutes out more? We are never going to find another top 6 player if all the kids are forced into playing under 9 minutes with awful deployment. Cooper only trusts the top 6 and Paquette anymore, we won't win that way. I also hope we don't trade for a rental just to waste them in the bottom 6. We are absolutely tanking Gourdes value with his deployment, sure he's struggling a bit but he'll never get out of it with his current linemates and the way he's used.

 

[Todd1a]

I just don't get Cooper and his time distribution. I can see giving Stamkos, Kucherov and Point 20 minutes if they're on all game and its working but when they are playing like trash for most of it why are we still trotting them out every other shift? Stamkos was trash all game except for one big hit, took a stupid penalty either right before or after, and kept getting thrown out there. Point was crap till we were down two goals. Kucherov was the best of the 3 but even with the two goals wasn't great. None of the forwards really stood out in a good way last night so if nobody's really working why not just spread the minutes out more? We are never going to find another top 6 player if all the kids are forced into playing under 9 minutes with awful deployment. Cooper only trusts the top 6 and Paquette anymore, we won't win that way. I also hope we don't trade for a rental just to waste them in the bottom 6. We are absolutely tanking Gourdes value with his deployment, sure he's struggling a bit but he'll never get out of it with his current linemates and the way he's used.

5.1 million per year for gourde and we play him with rookies or 4th liners!

 

[Tampacuseforever]

I just don't get Cooper and his time distribution. I can see giving Stamkos, Kucherov and Point 20 minutes if they're on all game and its working but when they are playing like trash for most of it why are we still trotting them out every other shift? Stamkos was trash all game except for one big hit, took a stupid penalty either right before or after, and kept getting thrown out there. Point was crap till we were down two goals. Kucherov was the best of the 3 but even with the two goals wasn't great. None of the forwards really stood out in a good way last night so if nobody's really working why not just spread the minutes out more? We are never going to find another top 6 player if all the kids are forced into playing under 9 minutes with awful deployment. Cooper only trusts the top 6 and Paquette anymore, we won't win that way. I also hope we don't trade for a rental just to waste them in the bottom 6. We are absolutely tanking Gourdes value with his deployment, sure he's struggling a bit but he'll never get out of it with his current linemates and the way he's used.

There is a definite disconnect between GM and Coach on the players that he is given. Cooper is NOT a Verhaeghe or Volkov guy. I can’t really say I disagree with him but there is no excuse in the lack of playing time they get. If a player is not valued enough to get a least 10 minutes a game in a back to back situation, then get guys that will be played.

 

[HoseEmDown]

There is a definite disconnect between GM and Coach on the players that he is given. Cooper is NOT a Verhaeghe or Volkov guy. I can’t really say I disagree with him but there is no excuse in the lack of playing time they get. If a player is not valued enough to get a least 10 minutes a game in a back to back situation, then get guys that will be played.

Do we really want Cooper guys like Condra, Morrow and Kunitz? None of them have done anything worthwhile except take minutes from a kid. Guys like Panik, Connolly, Drouin or Marchessault should have been playing more not less but Coop needed his guys to get minutes. This year it's Verheaghe, Joseph and Volkov losing out to Maroon. Maroon hasn't been that bad compared to past Coop guys but he shouldn't be playing 12 a night while a promising prospect is getting 8.

He tried to ruin Kucherov but Kucherov was too good for that and Yzerman gutted the RW depth which forced Coopee to move Kucherov up. The only reason Johnson or Palat got a chance was because he coached them prior and we were so thin up front he had to play them. The only way a prospect gets minutes from him is if they are very defensive, it's why Paquette, Point and Cirelli have done well, he only plays you if you know about the two nets.

 

[Hockeyman1962]

I have been saying the same thing as HoseEmDown for about 3 weeks. Jon Cooper is a bad coach and his assistants are just as bad. 2nd power play unit he puts Johnson in front of the net as a screen really he is 5.8 come on he is a scorer. He will roll lines to start the game then starts double shifting KUCH'S line causing other players to sit long periods before they are back out. He couldn't leave Palat with Johnson or even try the triplets together again NO he just goes back to the same line as before. Then in the 3rd period he changes lines again I DONT GET THIS GUY PERIOD. If I was player I wouldn't want to be traded out of Tampa bay because of the Weather but Cooper is ruining good players. To be a good coach you have had to be in the trenches as a player and Cooper never played any kind of hockey look him up hockeydb.com. This team is loaded with talent but are not being used correctly. Unless you are Point, Kuch, Stamkos, you are going to be screwed when it comes to minutes played. Point takes a penalty they get scored on and Point's line right back out there. The sign of a bad coach is doing the same thing over and over and expect different results.

 

[Hockeyman1962]

I have been saying the same thing as HoseEmDown for about 3 weeks. Jon Cooper is a bad coach and his assistants are just as bad. 2nd power play unit he puts Johnson in front of the net as a screen really he is 5.8 come on he is a scorer. He will roll lines to start the game then starts double shifting KUCH'S line causing other players to sit long periods before they are back out. He couldn't leave Palat with Johnson or even try the triplets together again NO he just goes back to the same line as before. Then in the 3rd period he changes lines again I DONT GET THIS GUY PERIOD. If I was player I wouldn't want to be traded out of Tampa bay because of the Weather but Cooper is ruining good players. To be a good coach you have had to be in the trenches as a player and Cooper never played any kind of hockey look him up hockeydb.com. This team is loaded with talent but are not being used correctly. Unless you are Point, Kuch, Stamkos, you are going to be screwed when it comes to minutes played. Point takes a penalty they get scored on and Point's line right back out there. The sign of a bad coach is doing the same thing over and over and expect different results.

 

[Hockeyman1962]

I have been saying the same thing as HoseEmDown for about 3 weeks. Jon Cooper is a bad coach and his assistants are just as bad. 2nd power play unit he puts Johnson in front of the net as a screen really he is 5.8 come on he is a scorer. He will roll lines to start the game then starts double shifting KUCH'S line causing other players to sit long periods before they are back out. He couldn't leave Palat with Johnson or even try the triplets together again NO he just goes back to the same line as before. Then in the 3rd period he changes lines again I DONT GET THIS GUY PERIOD. If I was player I wouldn't want to be traded out of Tampa bay because of the Weather but Cooper is ruining good players. To be a good coach you have had to be in the trenches as a player and Cooper never played any kind of hockey look him up hockeydb.com. This team is loaded with talent but are not being used correctly. Unless you are Point, Kuch, Stamkos, you are going to be screwed when it comes to minutes played. Point takes a penalty they get scored on and Point's line right back out there. The sign of a bad coach is doing the same thing over and over and expect different results.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Do we really want Cooper guys like Condra, Morrow and Kunitz? None of them have done anything worthwhile except take minutes from a kid. Guys like Panik, Connolly, Drouin or Marchessault should have been playing more not less but Coop needed his guys to get minutes. This year it's Verheaghe, Joseph and Volkov losing out to Maroon. Maroon hasn't been that bad compared to past Coop guys but he shouldn't be playing 12 a night while a promising prospect is getting 8.

He tried to ruin Kucherov but Kucherov was too good for that and Yzerman gutted the RW depth which forced Coopee to move Kucherov up. The only reason Johnson or Palat got a chance was because he coached them prior and we were so thin up front he had to play them. The only way a prospect gets minutes from him is if they are very defensive, it's why Paquette, Point and Cirelli have done well, he only plays you if you know about the two nets.

Not disagreeing with anything you said here. But in defence of cooper verhaeghe is an offensively gifted player and nothing more. Unfortunately we have plenty of those type of players and are not in need of more scoring. Volkov is just not that good and I don’t understand how a guy that hasn’t preformed in the AHL can suddenly be a factor at the nhl level ? We need more Stephens type of players in the bottom 6 not Verhaeghe type players.

 

[HoseEmDown]

5.1 million per year for gourde and we play him with rookies or 4th liners!

He's pretty much telling the GM I have no use for this player and I don't want him on the team, he did the same with Miller. Which is fine but we need to get his value up in order to trade him which Cooper isn't helping with. Point and Gourde have had great chemistry whenever they played together, Cooper needs to put them back together down the stretch to get Gourde going again. It's not like Point is killing it this year anyway, he's barely ppg and that's being attached to Kucherovs hip.

Johnson - Point - Gourde
Palat - Stamkos - Verheaghe
Killorn - Cirelli - Kucherov
Maroon - Paquette - Stephens

 

[Hockeyman1962]

Jon Cooper I believe doesn't listen to any body Either he likes you or not. A quality coach play's no favorites. You have to keep all the players heads in the game and by sitting players for long stretches they loose that. Until he figures that The same old same oh will continue.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

He's pretty much telling the GM I have no use for this player and I don't want him on the team, he did the same with Miller. Which is fine but we need to get his value up in order to trade him which Cooper isn't helping with. Point and Gourde have had great chemistry whenever they played together, Cooper needs to put them back together down the stretch to get Gourde going again. It's not like Point is killing it this year anyway, he's barely ppg and that's being attached to Kucherovs hip.

Johnson - Point - Gourde
Palat - Stamkos - Verheaghe
Killorn - Cirelli - Kucherov
Maroon - Paquette - Stephens

First line way too small to compete in the playoffs and suddenly Verhaeghe is on line 2 and Kucherov is a third line RW ? Come on now !

 

[HoseEmDown]

Not disagreeing with anything you said here. But in defence of cooper verhaeghe is an offensively gifted player and nothing more. Unfortunately we have plenty of those type of players and are not in need of more scoring. Volkov is just not that good and I don’t understand how a guy that hasn’t preformed in the AHL can suddenly be a factor at the nhl level ? We need more Stephens type of players in the bottom 6 not Verhaeghe type players.

Verheaghe is an offense first guy but it's not like he's Witkowski defensively. He isn't going to do anything special in the defensive zone but his shot differentials are really good. Which means he isn't in the defensive zone as much, so he isn't a Stephens or traditional bottom 6 player but one that spends more time in the other teams zone. It's also not a good sign that Cooper knows Verheaghe isn't a defensive first player yet he gives him more defensive zone starts then offensive ones, that makes no sense to me. Stamkos isn't good defensively either, much lower shots for vs against, yet doesn't get stapled to the bench. Stamkos 5v5 goals/60 is roughly the same as Verheaghe as well. Verheaghe isn't a bad player and with his limited minutes has done rather well yet he's continuously benched. It's nice to have defensively responsible guys but it's also nice to have a bottom 6 that you can put out and think they might score instead of one you never expect any offense from.

 

[HoseEmDown]

First line way too small to compete in the playoffs and suddenly Verhaeghe is on line 2 and Kucherov is a third line RW ? Come on now !

Killorn is playing on the 3rd or 4th line, by the way it's listed on the game sheet, yet is always top 5 in time on ice amongst forwards. You really think Kucherov will be deployed like that all game? Verheaghe played well with Stamkos before so should get another look with skill players, he won't play near as much as either of his linemates anyway. What does it matter if the top line is small if they're killing teams with their speed and passing those bigger opponents won't be able to touch them. We need to spread the offense out instead of loading up like we've been doing, I swear it seemed like only 6 forwards played in the 3rd period last night.

 

[bov]

Well it must've been tough biting your tongue for 10 games, now's the chance to get it all out of your system before we win again!

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Verheaghe is an offense first guy but it's not like he's Witkowski defensively. He isn't going to do anything special in the defensive zone but his shot differentials are really good. Which means he isn't in the defensive zone as much, so he isn't a Stephens or traditional bottom 6 player but one that spends more time in the other teams zone. It's also not a good sign that Cooper knows Verheaghe isn't a defensive first player yet he gives him more defensive zone starts then offensive ones, that makes no sense to me. Stamkos isn't good defensively either, much lower shots for vs against, yet doesn't get stapled to the bench. Stamkos 5v5 goals/60 is roughly the same as Verheaghe as well. Verheaghe isn't a bad player and with his limited minutes has done rather well yet he's continuously benched. It's nice to have defensively responsible guys but it's also nice to have a bottom 6 that you can put out and think they might score instead of one you never expect any offense from.

Your love for Verhaeghe has no bounds ! Now your using advanced stats to compare him to Stamkos ? I just don’t think the makeup of the team is right. It’s not always your top 12 skill guys that play. We need more grit and compete in the bottom six in order to make any noise in the playoffs. There’s a reason we stumble in the playoffs and Verhaeghe is not a player that would help our playoff performance . IMHO.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Killorn is playing on the 3rd or 4th line, by the way it's listed on the game sheet, yet is always top 5 in time on ice amongst forwards. You really think Kucherov will be deployed like that all game? Verheaghe played well with Stamkos before so should get another look with skill players, he won't play near as much as either of his linemates anyway. What does it matter if the top line is small if they're killing teams with their speed and passing those bigger opponents won't be able to touch them. We need to spread the offense out instead of loading up like we've been doing, I swear it seemed like only 6 forwards played in the 3rd period last night.

Washington and Columbus seemed to have no problem neutralizing our speed.

 

[The Macho King]

Washington and Columbus seemed to have no problem neutralizing our speed.

There's just a certain type of team we always struggle against. Minnesota, the new-look Caps, the Blues, the Islanders, the Preds...

And why? Those teams play with structure in the NZ and structure in the DZ. We score when we cause mistakes with puck movement or when we can create mini-rushes through the NZ (3-2, 4-3). If the other side stays structure, there isn't anything to exploit. You can cycle all day but if you never draw anyone out of position, you don't get a lot from it.

My problem is we have the same issues against these teams that we have since 2015. These are teams that - absent an individual play that nets a goal - we look like we're skating through mud for 60 minutes every time.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

There's just a certain type of team we always struggle against. Minnesota, the new-look Caps, the Blues, the Islanders, the Preds...

And why? Those teams play with structure in the NZ and structure in the DZ. We score when we cause mistakes with puck movement or when we can create mini-rushes through the NZ (3-2, 4-3). If the other side stays structure, there isn't anything to exploit. You can cycle all day but if you never draw anyone out of position, you don't get a lot from it.

My problem is we have the same issues against these teams that we have since 2015. These are teams that - absent an individual play that nets a goal - we look like we're skating through mud for 60 minutes every time.

Exactly my point. We can’t keep adding move players that are similar types to what we have. We need to be adaptable with the ability to play with a big compete level. Grit !!!!

 

[HoseEmDown]

Your love for Verhaeghe has no bounds ! Now your using advanced stats to compare him to Stamkos ? I just don’t think the makeup of the team is right. It’s not always your top 12 skill guys that play. We need more grit and compete in the bottom six in order to make any noise in the playoffs. There’s a reason we stumble in the playoffs and Verhaeghe is not a player that would help our playoff performance . IMHO.

I like players who produce well with their ice time and contract. Verheaghe does that well, Stamkos has played 10 more games, plays almost five more minutes 5v5 a game yet only has 4 more 5v5 goals while making 10x more money I will call them out. Stamkos doesn't help our playoff performance either yet we'll keep throwing him out there every other shift. It's hard for guys like Verheaghe to show anything when they get one shift every 5 minutes, start in their own zone and then are expected to make something happen. If Cooper would give the kids a fair chance I wouldn't complain but he doesn't ,they're stapled to the bench for long stretches and expected to make miracles. That's poor coaching.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Washington and Columbus seemed to have no problem neutralizing our speed.

That was very little to do with size neutralizing our speed. Duchene is smaller than Stamkos and absolutely abused him for 4 straight games.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

weve lost to minn for 18 str8 years i think smdh.....usually given someone a hatty lmfao

its def sick..... i dont get why you choose mcc last night over vasy .... you should play your good goalie for the worst team when can just saying..... unless you expect 2 wins on back to back and I dont.... maybe get lucky here and there but usually best scenario is keep close tie get one point maybe lol

see told you to stay now you got someone whom agrees with ya hockey man !!

as far as maroon this is something WE need and in playoffs will truly need probably should add another guy like him imho..... i dont know what people expect but i give him an B+ rating for play in all situations this year for a fourth liner thats pretty good when hold paquette at a solid C.... verhaegh i got as a D and should be back in cuse or moved..... if he gets hot ever.....

i really like stephens he can stay... look forward to adding nolan foote next year.....smith should be up verhaegh down immediately ..... joseph 9 games 3 goals 8 points

cal foote 39 games 3 goals 21 points but a minus 15 while gaunce is a plus 9

 

[Todd1a]

Didn’t cooper play Jt Miller on the 4th line all last season and now he is a star player with the Canucks in the top 6 lol seems the same thing is happening with gourde now