Friedman: “The only rental who I think is getting a #1 is Kreider”

[5cotland]

If you actually think this, based on your own posts on the subject, I can only conclude you must be Kreider's mom.

So, is that the same for every poster who shares the same thought that Kreider is better and worth more than Pageau.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I agree. It was a ridiculous statement and for that, I apologise.

How hard this guy is pushing Pageua you would think it was his mom or something. Even questioning the fact that the Zucker trade got Minnesota a 1st round pick + and then using that as a benchmark that a rental Pageau "is certainly getting a first".

For someone who claims to have the all this hockey pedigree behind him, you would really think that his player valuation would be strong but these comments are just ludicrous.

Something tells me you weren't really serious with that apology.

 

[5cotland]

Something tells me you weren't really serious with that apology.

I am serious, the comment was a stretch and an inaccurate comment to make. I dont apologise for the intent as I feel the poster needs a re-evaluation of players values and teams needs.

@RANGERS13ADL said it better than me and I agree with his statement. My statement was wrongly worded.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I am serious, the comment was a stretch and an inaccurate comment to make. I dont apologise for the intent as I feel the poster needs a re-evaluation of players values and teams needs.

@RANGERS13ADL said it better than me and I agree with his statement. My statement was wrongly worded.

I look at it like this. If Player assessments/valuations were black and white, then teams would never sign guys to bad contract, and never make bad trades, and never make bad draft picks. Everyone has built in biases (you have one being a Ranger's fan) and attributes in a player they value more than others. I see it in prospect rankings all the time where one guy likes guys with high skill, even if they are more likely to bust where another guy likes a player that is more of a sure thing, even if the ceiling isn't as high.

In this case, maybe the poster feels that Pageau being a hardworking, 2-way center adds more value than you think it does and that certain teams might need help down the middle more than they need a winger? I'm not saying he's right (as I personally think Kreider holds more value), but I guess I don't see the need for throwing out insults like you did at the beginning, then again after you apologized ("Mom" comment and "ludicrous" comment, etc..) just because he has a different POV. To each their own though.

EDIT: I should say that over the years, in the past, I have also made comments like that so I'm not condemning you, but I now try to avoid doing it as it makes the discussions here more enjoyable.

 

[5cotland]

I look at it like this. If Player assessments/valuations were black and white, then teams would never sign guys to bad contract, and never make bad trades, and never make bad draft picks. Everyone has built in biases (you have one being a Ranger's fan) and attributes in a player they value more than others. I see it in prospect rankings all the time where one guy likes guys with high skill, even if they are more likely to bust where another guy likes a player that is more of a sure thing, even if the ceiling isn't as high.

In this case, maybe the poster feels that Pageau being a hardworking, 2-way center adds more value than you think it does and that certain teams might need help down the middle more than they need a winger? I'm not saying he's right (as I personally think Kreider holds more value), but I guess I don't see the need for throwing out insults like you did at the beginning, then again after you apologized ("Mom" comment and "ludicrous" comment, etc..) just because he has a different POV. To each their own though.

EDIT: I should say that over the years, in the past, I have also made comments like that so I'm not condemning you, but I now try to avoid doing it as it makes the discussions here more enjoyable.

You know what, I respect your post and appreciate the effort in explaining everything. Like you said it is never just black and white and I am getting worked up over nothing. Draw a line in the sand. Issue is over.

@bert no malice was intended so I apologise.

All in all, my feelings on the situation is that Kreider is a much more valuable asset and worthy of the high price which the Rangers are looking to get in a return for him. As for Pageau, his work rate and 2 way play is excellent, however I see him as more of a Jesper Fast type player that will play heart and soul for the team and is a lot more valuable to his own team than what his trade value would be.

Pageau on a play off team would most likely be a 3rd liner and that is what I feel would prevent him from getting a first round pick. I would actually be inclined to say that Grabner would be a very good comparison in terms of return and even on their 2 way game.

 

[Shootertooter]

I look at it like this. If Player assessments/valuations were black and white, then teams would never sign guys to bad contract, and never make bad trades, and never make bad draft picks. Everyone has built in biases (you have one being a Ranger's fan) and attributes in a player they value more than others. I see it in prospect rankings all the time where one guy likes guys with high skill, even if they are more likely to bust where another guy likes a player that is more of a sure thing, even if the ceiling isn't as high.

In this case, maybe the poster feels that Pageau being a hardworking, 2-way center adds more value than you think it does and that certain teams might need help down the middle more than they need a winger? I'm not saying he's right (as I personally think Kreider holds more value), but I guess I don't see the need for throwing out insults like you did at the beginning, then again after you apologized ("Mom" comment and "ludicrous" comment, etc..) just because he has a different POV. To each their own though.

EDIT: I should say that over the years, in the past, I have also made comments like that so I'm not condemning you, but I now try to avoid doing it as it makes the discussions here more enjoyable.

I'd guess that Kreider having 25 pts in his past 25 games adds value compared to Pageau's 6 pts in the last 15.
I think that would be significant actually.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'd guess that Kreider having 25 pts in his past 25 games adds value compared to Pageau's 6 pts in the last 15.
I think that would be significant actually.

Yep, like I said, I would value Kreider higher personally. I'm a fan of Kreider.

 

[bert]

I agree. It was a ridiculous statement and for that, I apologise.

How hard this guy is pushing Pageua you would think it was his mom or something. Even questioning the fact that the Zucker trade got Minnesota a 1st round pick + and then using that as a benchmark that a rental Pageau "is certainly getting a first".

For someone who claims to have the all this hockey pedigree behind him, you would really think that his player valuation would be strong but these comments are just ludicrous.

You say I need to re-evaluate my player valuations then insult me multiple times then come back with this?....

You know what, I respect your post and appreciate the effort in explaining everything. Like you said it is never just black and white and I am getting worked up over nothing. Draw a line in the sand. Issue is over.

@bert no malice was intended so I apologise.

All in all, my feelings on the situation is that Kreider is a much more valuable asset and worthy of the high price which the Rangers are looking to get in a return for him. As for Pageau, his work rate and 2 way play is excellent, however I see him as more of a Jesper Fast type player that will play heart and soul for the team and is a lot more valuable to his own team than what his trade value would be.

Pageau on a play off team would most likely be a 3rd liner and that is what I feel would prevent him from getting a first round pick. I would actually be inclined to say that Grabner would be a very good comparison in terms of return and even on their 2 way game.

First of all Pageau plays center you compared him to a bunch of wingers. You have directly displayed here that you dont understand that a center carries different value thsn a winger. Perhaps thats something you can look into? Pageau is also producing at a much higher rate than the players you compared him to with far more playoff success.

Pageau is a valuable commodity due to his versatility. Yes on a contender he is a third line center. A position that is incredibly important if you look at the successful teams in recent history. He has the ability to carry a line in a playoff series against the likes of a Crosby or Bergeron, not only does he not get folded in but his line has shown the ability to shut down top lines. He is extremely strong on faceoffs on the right side of the ice and is an elite penalty killer. Very difficult player to play against. He can also finish when given the opportunity and has proven to be able to raise his game at playoff time. He is also insurance for a team if they sustain an injury to one of their top 2 centers and has shown he can play and produce in that roll. On top of that he only just turned 27. If a team likes what he brings it gives them the inside track on retaining him.

A top 6 winger and an elite shut down third line center carry similar trade value especially when the two players are producing almost at the same rate. One team depending on need may value one more than the other.

Ultimately I like Kreider and am very confident he will return a first. I also believe Pageau will return a late first. I think a team like Colorado, NYI, or Edmonton could really use him.

 

[RangersFan1994]

2 goals tonight containing his hot streak at the perfect time

 

[Number 204]

-

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

Kreider and Andersson for Byram


Yep. This is where we are.

 

[Tawnos]

Kreider and Andersson for Byram


Yep. This is where we are.

PSA: Most Rangers fans aren’t this ridiculous. Not saying we aren’t ridiculous, just not to this level.

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

PSA: Most Rangers fans aren’t this ridiculous. Not saying we aren’t ridiculous, just not to this level.

Extended Kreider, of course

 

[Tawnos]

Extended Kreider, of course

Not only would that still not happen, but I have a hard time seeing Kreider wanting to sign a deal before July 1 anywhere that’s not NY.

 

[Cancuks]

I think he'll end up going to the Bruins for a 1st + prospect.

 

[SlapshotTheMovie]

I am going to miss Kreider but i am sure as f*** am going to hate his extension more. He is getting hot at the right time. I didn't think he would return a first in this draft but 27 pts in 26 games changes that a bit.

 

[Seph]

So, is that the same for every poster who shares the same thought that Kreider is better and worth more than Pageau.

No more than everyone who thinks otherwise must be Pageau's mom. But I was using your logic, not mine.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Krieder battled Kubla Khan with Brian Boitano and speaks 17 languages including Aramaic, and helped Frodo drop the ring of power into the Mordor fires, that’s a 1st rounder

 

[518NYRfan]

Kreider needs to be re-signed. thats the end all be all of it.

 

[maplepred]

If the Preds do end up moving Granlund it better be for a first plus. He’s been better every season he’s been in the nhl than Kreider. He just forgot how to play hockey for a year lol.
He’s been very good for the Preds lately. Scoring almost every game. Also to be fair, he was snake bitten a lot for us when he was slumping hardcore. Always in right spot and right time but would have some fluky bounce or goalie make enormous save. The kids very talented and should command more than Kreider.

The hope is we resign him rather than trade him.

 

[maplepred]

I think he'll end up going to the Bruins for a 1st + prospect.

Sounds about right. Then Boston wins cup. I think they have the most complete team in the league, adding Kreider would be filthy.

Come get Craig smith for a second too

 

[5cotland]

If the Preds do end up moving Granlund it better be for a first plus. He’s been better every season he’s been in the nhl than Kreider. He just forgot how to play hockey for a year lol.
He’s been very good for the Preds lately. Scoring almost every game. Also to be fair, he was snake bitten a lot for us when he was slumping hardcore. Always in right spot and right time but would have some fluky bounce or goalie make enormous save. The kids very talented and should command more than Kreider.

The hope is we resign him rather than trade him.

You are 6 points outside the wildcard spot with 4 games in hand on Arizona. No way should the Preds think about being sellers.

 

[Liferleafer]

Just read an article saying Edmonton would be an interesting team to think about for Kreider. Does he have any NTCs?

 

[Liferleafer]

Kreider and Andersson for Byram


Yep. This is where we are.

"We"? Got a funny feeling you are alone on that Island sir.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Kreider needs to be re-signed. thats the end all be all of it.

Indeed. Hopefully the the that gives up an arm and leg for him can re-sign him and have some sort of draft pick condition kick in for us.