LeBrun: “But you know where I’d really like to see Wayne Simmonds is in Tampa Bay."

[LeafFever]

Nice of Pierre to bring his own personal wants into discussion,.

 

[DFC]

Middle 6. IMO, like anything in life, you don’t want to be one dimensional. Gourde is similar to a lot of players on Tampa. 5 foot 9 169? TJ 5 foot 8. Point 5 foot 11 175 lb. No forward over 6 foot 1. It’s fine obviously it works great and even better in the modern NHL. Just looks like you might need to have some diversity. I think they tried with Callahan but he sucks so that doesn’t work very well.

Simmonds doesn't fill a need the way he might have a couple of years ago. TB is a lot more physical than people realize. I think there's something to be said for the type of goals he scores, but playing him over a guy like Matthieu Joseph has risks. It's not like Simmonds is outscoring him by a massive amount, nor would there be a spot for Simmonds on our PP, unless he replaces Palat behind the net. He's not taking Point's spot in front.

I'd just rather not pay a 1st for a guy who would very likely end up on our 4th line and not be a difference-maker. He just wouldn't get the opportunity in TB that he would elsewhere.

 

[Leonardo87]

Middle 6. IMO, like anything in life, you don’t want to be one dimensional. Gourde is similar to a lot of players on Tampa. 5 foot 9 169? TJ 5 foot 8. Point 5 foot 11 175 lb. No forward over 6 foot 1. It’s fine obviously it works great and even better in the modern NHL. Just looks like you might need to have some diversity. I think they tried with Callahan but he sucks so that doesn’t work very well.

Callahan doesn’t suck, and anyone who posts a player sucks without having a civil debate about them , they really should not be posting at all about them.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Didn’t think I was being defensive. Just comical to me is all. Other Tampa fans have suggested the same thing. That’s a good team obviously but I would easily insert Simmonds there or move others to make room. I think Simmonds can win a series on his own when he gets rolling. It’s been named The Wayne Train here. It’s a thing.

I live here; I know all about the Wayne Train

I'm sure you would "easily insert" Simmonds into that lineup, but I don't think it's unreasonable at all for Tampa fans to be hesitant to fix what isn't broken... especially if that "fix" will come at a high cost.

I like Simmonds a lot, don't get me wrong. He's an impact player that you certainly want on your team in the playoffs. At the same time, though, I don't blame Lightning fans for not wanting to pay top-dollar for an expensive rental that doesn't fill a glaring need.

The Flyers would be able to get a richer return from a more desperate team. There is no urgency, on the part of the Lightning, to acquire Simmonds.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Dear Tampa Fans,

You are in a position to win it all. Buying one of your few needs to increase the chances of a Stanley Cup is well worth a first and a bit more. Your team is stocked at the NHL level and throughout. A late first rounder doesn't have the value some people on here believe, and you would be fine. Now breath deeply.

Sincerely,
30 other Teams Fans

Simmonds is a luxury, though. He isn't a need.

What Tampa really needs is a constant influx of talented youth on ELCs to provide cheap depth, allowing them to keep their expensive, elite core intact. The 1st rounder is much more of a need than Simmonds is... by far.

 

[TheKingPin]

Simmonds doesn't fill a need the way he might have a couple of years ago. TB is a lot more physical than people realize. I think there's something to be said for the type of goals he scores, but playing him over a guy like Matthieu Joseph has risks. It's not like Simmonds is outscoring him by a massive amount, nor would there be a spot for Simmonds on our PP, unless he replaces Palat behind the net. He's not taking Point's spot in front.

I'd just rather not pay a 1st for a guy who would very likely end up on our 4th line and not be a difference-maker. He just wouldn't get the opportunity in TB that he would elsewhere.

I guess just differing opinions. I really like Tampa and hope they can win a cup. I think you’ll see Simmonds get hot now and be an effective playoff player.

 

[DFC]

Simmonds is a luxury, though. He isn't a need.

What Tampa really needs is a constant influx of talented youth on ELCs to provide cheap depth, allowing them to keep their expensive, elite core intact. The 1st rounder is much more of a need than Simmonds is... by far.

This. We're gonna get away pretty clean out of this cap crunch, mainly because of Cernak and Joseph. We can absorb the loss of players because we have replacements ready, and always getting ready. We're always going to need that.

And rentals just don't work out as much as people seem to think.

 

[DFC]

I guess just differing opinions. I really like Tampa and hope they can win a cup. I think you’ll see Simmonds get hot now and be an effective playoff player.

I get that. And I don't mean to belittle Simmonds. He's the one guy who "kind of" makes sense for us. But then every time I look at it player by player, it makes less and less. I mean, it'd be different if we were talking about trading a mid-rounder for him. But at the price of a 1st +, when we're a team who depends very much on keeping our cupboard stocked, it gets a lot riskier.

He and Joseph have pretty similar production. And, unlike most TB players, Joseph is putting up goals with bottom-six minutes (11:40), and no elite linemates. 12 ES goals is nothing to sneeze at (Simmonds has 11?). If we're talking about replacing Callahan or Erne, we're talking about replacing a guy who might not even be a regular come playoff time. It's like, at what point does the cost of trying to create a perfect hockey team become too much?

 

[TheKingPin]

Callahan doesn’t suck, and anyone who posts a player sucks without having a civil debate about them , they really should not be posting at all about them.

Wait what? Callahan is no longer an effective player.

I live here; I know all about the Wayne Train

I'm sure you would "easily insert" Simmonds into that lineup, but I don't think it's unreasonable at all for Tampa fans to be hesitant to fix what isn't broken... especially if that "fix" will come at a high cost.

I like Simmonds a lot, don't get me wrong. He's an impact player that you certainly want on your team in the playoffs. At the same time, though, I don't blame Lightning fans for not wanting to pay top-dollar for an expensive rental that doesn't fill a glaring need.

The Flyers would be able to get a richer return from a more desperate team. There is no urgency, on the part of the Lightning, to acquire Simmonds.

I guess I look at Tampa’s lack of a cup since before this group and see underachieving. So while it may mean something to be good in the reg season, the presidents trophy shouldn’t make anyone feel safe. Look at the track record of president winners. I’d look at making my team harder to play against. Unless they want Wilson to screw them again. Then try and fix it next year anyway. Seems like a lot of cup teams have that guy and they are important. Wilson, horny, etc.

Simmonds is a luxury, though. He isn't a need.

What Tampa really needs is a constant influx of talented youth on ELCs to provide cheap depth, allowing them to keep their expensive, elite core intact. The 1st rounder is much more of a need than Simmonds is... by far.

They have a Norris winning elite dman. It’s a luxury to add another teams best dman and captain. But they did it. Bc it’s not a luxury, it’s making your team have no holes within the confines of the cap and reality.

 

[DFC]

Wait what? Callahan is no longer an effective player.



I guess I look at Tampa’s lack of a cup since before this group and see underachieving. So while it may mean something to be good in the reg season, the presidents trophy shouldn’t make anyone feel safe. Look at the track record of president winners. I’d look at making my team harder to play against. Unless they want Wilson to screw them again. Then try and fix it next year anyway. Seems like a lot of cup teams have that guy and they are important. Wilson, horny, etc.



They have a Norris winning elite dman. It’s a luxury to add another teams best dman and captain. But they did it. Bc it’s not a luxury, it’s making your team have no holes within the confines of the cap and reality.

Yeah, but look at the track record of TDL "buyers." It's not good. Like, every four or five years you see a TDL acquisition make a huge difference in the playoffs. Teams that "load up" tend to do poorly. I think GMs are seeing the same trend, thus the price of rentals has gotten lower in recent years.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

They have a Norris winning elite dman. It’s a luxury to add another teams best dman and captain. But they did it. Bc it’s not a luxury, it’s making your team have no holes within the confines of the cap and reality.

They blew their load on McDonagh because they had a good feeling they could lock him up on a good contract - and they did. $6.75AAV is a great price.

I highly, highly doubt they see Simmonds as a similar long-term building block.

 

[TheKingPin]

I get that. And I don't mean to belittle Simmonds. He's the one guy who "kind of" makes sense for us. But then every time I look at it player by player, it makes less and less. I mean, it'd be different if we were talking about trading a mid-rounder for him. But at the price of a 1st +, when we're a team who depends very much on keeping our cupboard stocked, it gets a lot riskier.

He and Joseph have pretty similar production. And, unlike most TB players, Joseph is putting up goals with bottom-six minutes (11:40), and no elite linemates. 12 ES goals is nothing to sneeze at (Simmonds has 11?). If we're talking about replacing Callahan or Erne, we're talking about replacing a guy who might not even be a regular come playoff time. It's like, at what point does the cost of trying to create a perfect hockey team become too much?

Well I think you’ll see Simmonds out produce some of Tampa’s top 9 from here on out. He has surgery to his abdominals that takes about 9-10 months to recover from, which is about a few weeks againwhen he started scoring and assisting a lot and looking better. And I think there is a lot value in a guy like Simmonds, leader type. Bc Tampa has so much speed and skill they have Simmonds and see a lot of benefit without so much cost. As far as the first +, Tampa has a lot of great prospects and develops like crazy. It’s not as severe a payment as a lot of other teams. Fact is they are just prospects, some won’t even stick in the NHL, and not everyone will even have a chance to play let alone play for the lightening.

 

[DFC]

They blew their load on McDonagh because they had a good feeling they could lock him up on a good contract - and they did. $6.75AAV is a great price.

I highly, highly doubt they see Simmonds as a similar long-term building block.

We really didn't blow any kind of load in that trade. (...)

I mean, Howden's a good piece, but we could afford to lose him. Jury's still out on Hajek.

The deal really didn't "hurt" in any way.

 

[TheKingPin]

Yeah, but look at the track record of TDL "buyers." It's not good. Like, every four or five years you see a TDL acquisition make a huge difference in the playoffs. Teams that "load up" tend to do poorly. I think GMs are seeing the same trend, thus the price of rentals has gotten lower in recent years.

I do agree with this for sure. I guess I just look at it as a need against teams like the caps and def the jets where size will matter a lot. Point is crazy good, but guys don’t even go after Simmonds in front. He gets his space. But yes I do agree that trade deadline moves mostly are pointless. Simmonds is just such a unique player that maybe it’s different?

 

[DFC]

Well I think you’ll see Simmonds out produce some of Tampa’s top 9 from here on out. He has surgery to his abdominals that takes about 9-10 months to recover from, which is about a few weeks againwhen he started scoring and assisting a lot and looking better. And I think there is a lot value in a guy like Simmonds, leader type. Bc Tampa has so much speed and skill they have Simmonds and see a lot of benefit without so much cost. As far as the first +, Tampa has a lot of great prospects and develops like crazy. It’s not as severe a payment as a lot of other teams. Fact is they are just prospects, some won’t even stick in the NHL, and not everyone will even have a chance to play let alone play for the lightening.

The one winger I could see him outproducing in the top-9 is Killorn, but Killer ups his game in the playoffs, without fail. I mean, if we could guarantee we're getting the Simmonds of a few years back, then yeah. But it's tough to make that guarantee.

I'm also not sure we'd want to move away from our speed-based game, even if Simmonds provides a "different look," so to speak. As well as our stars are playing this year, we're winning a lot of games on depth, with our bottom-six out-skating our opponents on a lot of nights. That's why we're so high on Joseph right now.

Simmonds just feels like too much of a luxury right now. I mean, come round 3, maybe I'll regret us not making the move because we can't buy a greasy goal to save our lives. I'm not discounting that possibility. It's just risk vs. reward. And also a little bit of a feeling like, "If we touch this mess of Jenga blocks, the whole thing might come crashing down."

 

[DFC]

I do agree with this for sure. I guess I just look at it as a need against teams like the caps and def the jets where size will matter a lot. Point is crazy good, but guys don’t even go after Simmonds in front. He gets his space. But yes I do agree that trade deadline moves mostly are pointless. Simmonds is just such a unique player that maybe it’s different?

The beauty of having Point in front is it opens up Stamkos though. We've become very much a pick-your-poison PP. Kucherov always has the options of Hedman, Stamkos, and Point, usually in that order. Take one away and the other two open up that much more. If he hits Stamkos or Point clean, it's a goal. I don't see Simmonds taking that spot. I could see him maybe taking over for Palat behind the net.

 

[Leonardo87]

Wait what? Callahan is no longer an effective player.
.

That’s BS. He is being pushed aside on a very talented Tampa team which grew overnight pretty much. He will have a bigger role on another team next year with not as much depth and will still be very effective on that team.

You want to talk ineffective? Look up the Ryan Kesler’s and Milan Lucic’s of the league, and those guys actually get the ice time unlike Callahan. Now I won’t be rude and blunt to say they suck, because that would make me a hypocrite, no will say they are struggling badly. Callahan is not, and is just on a stacked team and his injuries cost him his spot, when these younger players came up and started to play very well.

He gets undeserved hate because of his contract cap hit, and if he was making 3 to 3.5 million at most, no one would even say a God Damn word. He can’t even crack Tampa’s Top PK units and he is still very good at that. So you have to look at the overall picture before you say a player.... “sucks”.

 

[TheKingPin]

The one winger I could see him outproducing in the top-9 is Killorn, but Killer ups his game in the playoffs, without fail. I mean, if we could guarantee we're getting the Simmonds of a few years back, then yeah. But it's tough to make that guarantee.

I'm also not sure we'd want to move away from our speed-based game, even if Simmonds provides a "different look," so to speak. As well as our stars are playing this year, we're winning a lot of games on depth, with our bottom-six out-skating our opponents on a lot of nights. That's why we're so high on Joseph right now.

Simmonds just feels like too much of a luxury right now. I mean, come round 3, maybe I'll regret us not making the move because we can't buy a greasy goal to save our lives. I'm not discounting that possibility. It's just risk vs. reward. And also a little bit of a feeling like, "If we touch this mess of Jenga blocks, the whole thing might come crashing down."

The beauty of having Point in front is it opens up Stamkos though. We've become very much a pick-your-poison PP. Kucherov always has the options of Hedman, Stamkos, and Point, usually in that order. Take one away and the other two open up that much more. If he hits Stamkos or Point clean, it's a goal. I don't see Simmonds taking that spot. I could see him maybe taking over for Palat behind the net.

It’s hard to fault anything Tampa does right now. It’s a gamble. I will say that I don’t Simmonds is lucic. I don’t want to sign him but I wouldn’t jump off a bridge like most Flyer fans. Simmer still scored a lot even with a broken ankle, torn ligament in his tumb, and torn core. He’s going to score a decent amount this year in a very down year. But there is risk there and risk with anyone Tampa brings and changes the lineup with.

 

[TheKingPin]

That’s BS. He is being pushed aside on a very talented Tampa team which grew overnight pretty much. He will have a bigger role on another team next year with not as much depth and will still be very effective on that team.

You want to talk ineffective? Look up the Ryan Kesler’s and Milan Lucic’s of the league, and those guys actually get the ice time unlike Callahan. Now I won’t be rude and blunt to say they suck, because that would make me a hypocrite, no will say they are struggling badly. Callahan is not, and is just on a stacked team and his injuries cost him his spot, when these younger players came up and started to play very well.

He gets undeserved hate because of his contract cap hit, and if he was making 3 to 3.5 million at most, no one would even say a God Damn word. He can’t even crack Tampa’s Top PK units and he is still very good at that. So you have to look at the overall picture before you say a player.... “sucks”.

It’s not BS. He had 5 goals last year. He’s 33. That’s not good for players like him.

 

[DFC]

It’s hard to fault anything Tampa does right now. It’s a gamble. I will say that I don’t Simmonds is lucic. I don’t want to sign him but I wouldn’t jump off a bridge like most Flyer fans. Simmer still scored a lot even with a broken ankle, torn ligament in his tumb, and torn core. He’s going to score a decent amount this year in a very down year. But there is risk there and risk with anyone Tampa brings and changes the lineup with.

Yeah. Believe me, I won't be thrilled to find out Toronto lands him, or Pittsburgh, or whoever.

 

[DFC]

That’s BS. He is being pushed aside on a very talented Tampa team which grew overnight pretty much. He will have a bigger role on another team next year with not as much depth and will still be very effective on that team.

You want to talk ineffective? Look up the Ryan Kesler’s and Milan Lucic’s of the league, and those guys actually get the ice time unlike Callahan. Now I won’t be rude and blunt to say they suck, because that would make me a hypocrite, no will say they are struggling badly. Callahan is not, and is just on a stacked team and his injuries cost him his spot, when these younger players came up and started to play very well.

He gets undeserved hate because of his contract cap hit, and if he was making 3 to 3.5 million at most, no one would even say a God Damn word. He can’t even crack Tampa’s Top PK units and he is still very good at that. So you have to look at the overall picture before you say a player.... “sucks”.

You're never gonna win this. It's sort of like Toronto fans claiming Matthews is the best player in the league before he cracks 70 points. It's all what Callahan is hypothetically capable of. It never wins out against what he actually does.

 

[Leonardo87]

You're never gonna win this. It's sort of like Toronto fans claiming Matthews is the best player in the league before he cracks 70 points. It's all what Callahan is hypothetically capable of. It never wins out against what he actually does.

But what am I saying? That he is still an effective player? He has proven that over and over again. The fact he is overpaid for his role is another topic. Not saying he is going to hit like 20 goals or 50 points ever again. His production has actually been better this year than last year and with less ice time. He is getting baised hate because of his cap hit.

 

[Mikeaveli]

Meh. Simmonds is a player who I see as an upgrade over our bottom six but not a sizable enough one to warrant a competitive offer (definitely no first round pick) considering his contract status. There is literally zero chance we would re-sign Simmonds. Also, how many rental players has Tampa Bay traded for during the Yzerman/Brisebois era? This just isn't realistic imo.

 

[DFC]

But what am I saying? That he is still an effective player? He has proven that over and over again. The fact he is overpaid for his role is another topic. Not saying he is going to hit like 20 goals or 50 points ever again. His production has actually been better this year than last year and with less ice time. He is getting baised hate because of his cap hit.

You're cherry-picking things to make him look effective. He's reasonably effective, for a fourth liner. And there's no way to talk about him without including his cap hit, because it's impossible for the current version of him to counter-balance that negative.

 

[DFC]

Meh. Simmonds is a player who I see as an upgrade over our bottom six but not a sizable enough one to warrant a competitive offer (definitely no first round pick) considering his contract status. There is literally zero chance we would re-sign Simmonds. Also, how many rental players has Tampa Bay traded for during the Yzerman/Brisebois era? This just isn't realistic imo.

I don't think Yzerman traded for a single rental. Or at least, no player who turned out to be a rental. He signed all of them, so far as I can remember.