Zibby vs. Silf

John Holmes*

Guest
Let's see who was the last 23 year old Sens player that was supposed to break out and be awesome after "adjusting" to North America?










































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Harsh.
 

Sensinitis

Registered User
Aug 5, 2012
15,934
5,526
Let's see who was the last 23 year old Sens player that was supposed to break out and be awesome after "adjusting" to North America?

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Harsh.


LOOL I have trouble figuring out if you're trolling or if you're actually serious. Normally I can tell but you play it pretty well whichever you're going for.
 

John Holmes*

Guest
You make no sense.

For his whole life up until this season, Silfverberg has played 50 game seasons. This year, he played 92 games AHL/NHL/NHL playoffs combined. That's almost double! Obviously he would fade out for the stretch run and in the playoffs. The strain on his body is way more than he's used to. That's a pretty bad argument.

Saying he's pretty darn close to his max potential is also not the brightest thing. Why would he be closer to his max potential than Zibanejad? Because he's two years younger? Makes no sense at all.

They both reached the NHL THIS Season. That means they will both be adapting to the small ice at the same time. Saying that Silfverberg will adjust a bit more compared to Zibanejad has no merit at this point. It's pure speculation.

Not only that but Silfverberg dominated the SEL. He's shown the ability to adapt and become a threat. Zibanejad hasn't shown that yet. I'm not saying he won't, but he hasn't shown it. Based on that, Silfverberg has more chances of improving than Zibanejad.

So Alfie didn't make big strides since he reached the SEL at 23? LOL. Same nationality, played in the same league before, entered the NHL at the same time, both led broke a record for most playoff goals in the SEL... Many similarities between them.

Basically all of what you just said to prove your point holds no ground.

A player like Alfredsson is the exception. Plus, as I remember, he was pretty good as soon as he set foot on N.A. ice. He won that Calder thing.

Silfverberg is not Alfredsson.

He doesn't have the speed, the hands or the fire that Alfredsson has. Alfie was an anomaly. That happening twice to a team is pretty damn rare.

Being Swedish and playing well in the SEL doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of NHL success. Andreas Dackell was on Silf's team for god's sake and he hasn't seen NHL ice in almost a decade.
 

Sensinitis

Registered User
Aug 5, 2012
15,934
5,526
A player like Alfredsson is the exception. Plus, as I remember, he was pretty good as soon as he set foot on N.A. ice. He won that Calder thing.

Silfverberg is not Alfredsson.

He doesn't have the speed, the hands or the fire that Alfredsson has. Alfie was an anomaly. That happening twice to a team is pretty damn rare.

Being Swedish and playing well in the SEL doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of NHL success. Andreas Dackell was on Silf's team for god's sake and he hasn't seen NHL ice in almost a decade.

So you picked 2 lines out of all of what I said and decided to refute that. Good job missing the point.

Alfie is just an example of a player coming from the SEL, entering the NHL at the same age as Silf and adjusting. I'm not saying Silfverberg is gonna become Alfie, I never said that actually and that's what you're trying to make me say in your post! Not probable he'll score 40 goals and get 100 points like Alfie did or even be PPG, but the point stands.
 

Rodzilla

Registered User
Aug 31, 2010
10,903
3,300
Canada
I love Silf, but Mika is/will be better. Silf is a shooter and a cheker, I watched almost every game and I can't recall Silf beating a defender when entering the zone 1on1. Mika is much more dynamic and explosive and is more physical (even though I think he could do more). You also have to consider the fact that Mika is taller bigger and only 20 years old, he has way more tools IMO that will make him successful at the NHL level. I hope we keep both, I love Silf he'll be a good player I am sure but if I had to choose it would be Mika, who came in this year when nobody expected him to even be in the NHL and looked like a damn fine regular player in this league
 

Senateurs

Let's win it all
Feb 28, 2007
9,256
110
I love when people start craping on a player just to bring another one up. It's the Vermette-Fisher debate all over again.
 

John Holmes*

Guest
So you picked 2 lines out of all of what I said and decided to refute that. Good job missing the point.

Alfie is just an example of a player coming from the SEL, entering the NHL at the same age as Silf and adjusting. I'm not saying Silfverberg is gonna become Alfie, I never said that actually and that's what you're trying to make me say in your post! Not probable he'll score 40 goals and get 100 points like Alfie did or even be PPG, but the point stands.

Alfie is an outlier. He's like Datsyuk or Zetterberg. A generational talent.

You can't say his path is the norm...which I know you're not, but drafting a 1000 point hall of famer in the 6th round is like winning the lottery.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
I love when Holmes trolls.

I mean, I can do it too.

Zibanejad was invisible for more time this year than he was visible. On top of this he has injury history already, couldn't dominate a tournament where he was an overager and physically much bigger than his competition, and he's never been dominant at any level. He consistently makes questionable decisions with the puck, and completely disappeared down the stretch and in the playoffs. He was benched multiple times throughout the year, and shows little intensity. I see little room for growth in his game because he's doing pretty much the same thing he's done in every league. Showing flashes, producing moderately and being inconsistent.

Alfie is an outlier. He's like Datsyuk or Zetterberg. A generational talent.

You can't say his path is the norm...which I know you're not, but drafting a 1000 point hall of famer in the 6th round is like winning the lottery.

I guess Loui Eriksson is a generational talent, too. Do you really think that players who come into the league at 22 and develop into star level players are that rare? (Hint: they're not.)
 

18Hossa

And Grace, Too
Oct 12, 2012
6,625
252
Alfie is an outlier. He's like Datsyuk or Zetterberg. A generational talent.

You can't say his path is the norm...which I know you're not, but drafting a 1000 point hall of famer in the 6th round is like winning the lottery.
You lack reading comprehension or are trollong since draft position has nothing to do with it. He was talking about coming in to the nhl as a 22/23 year old.
 

Punchbowl

Registered User
Apr 4, 2010
2,803
248
Different situations. Zibanejad has come over young and isn't the same kind of player. He has never shown dominance at any level of play. He has tools and potential though.



This isn't the same situation at all...we were talking purely about potential with Rundblad and it never bothers me when someone has a differing opinion. What bothers me is when the arguments are illogical or flat out false (like saying Zibanejad had a better year than Silfverberg or calling what Silfverberg has done so far unimpressive).

I don't have to wait until someone is the same age to compare them, either. Everyone has a different developmental curve, and they are two very different kinds of players. Silfverberg's adjustment was always going to be harder due to this.

Anyway...I don't like this kind of thing either because a lot of comments make it become confrontational. I think they're both going to be good players. I just think that Silfverberg will be on a different level to Zibanejad.

My mistake, Zibanejad is only two years behind Silf. Well, it's a half mistake because he technically is about 2.5 years younger than Silfverberg (early 1993 vs late 1990), which was what I was trying to stress.

They are two players with different styles, and you're right that Silfverberg's adjustment will be more difficult as Zibanejad already played a very North American style in Sweden, but age is still a factor that should be considered.


Two and half years of physical development is quite significant. I have to believe that, in 2.5 years, Zibanejad will be more filled out and much stronger than he is today. Silfverberg has already had those 2.5 years to train and improve his strength, so he physically is further ahead on his trajectory. That's not to suggest he's stronger by any means, but that he's reached maybe 80% of his personal physical development, whereas Zibanejad is at his personal 70%. As a result, Silfverberg is physically a 10% more finished project than Zibanejad (using these arbitrary numbers) and this should be factored into determining who will have the better career.

From a skills perspective, as you said, a prospect's progress is not linear, and thus there is a level of uncertainty inherent in projecting any young player's career. We don't know if Silfverberg's going to skyrocket and Zib's going to stagnate, or vice versa, or whatever else may happen. However, if you're trying to ascertain which prospect is going to develop into the greater player, in my opinion it's best to eliminate as many other variables as possible (or just account for them, if elimination is not possible). Since both prospects entered the NHL at the same time, we don't have to consider number of years spent on North American ice, but age should be acknowledged here because Silverberg has had two more years than Zibanejad honing his skills in professional leagues.


As for the notion that Silverberg has dominated the SEL while Zibanejad was an average player, I think it's in large part because of that European (Silfverberg) vs North American style (Zibanejad) that Silf was the better player in Europe. Not entirely due to that factor, but I think it's important to remember.

Silverberg should not be given credit twice for his style of play in saying that:
  • He dominated the SEL
  • He is having a difficult time adjusting to the NHL

Also, Zibanejad should not be criticized twice for his style of play, in saying that:
  • He did not dominate in the SEL
  • He is having an easier transition to the NHL

There's a trade-off for playing that European style; while you may dominate the SEL, you will have a more difficult shift to the NHL. Silfverberg reaped the rewards in Sweden, and Zibanejad is now receiving his benefits in the NHL.


That said, they're both great players. I'm primarily playing Devil's advocate here, though I do think Zibanejad has the higher boom/bust potential and consequently prefer him.
 

18Hossa

And Grace, Too
Oct 12, 2012
6,625
252
I walk into places with my Silfverberg jersey and people say "sweet jersey" etc but my friend who wears his zibanejad jersey never gets complimented on it.
Therefore Silf > Zib





Do i need to add the :sarcasm:
 

DylanSensFan

BEESHIP: NBH
Aug 3, 2010
9,373
1,699
Calgary
I think it is ridiculous to even compare the two at this point. Both looked good in there early nhl games, but both looked tired as time went on. Silf will get a little faster and learn how to get into open ice more and Zibanejad will get a little tougher. Both will have good NHL careers provided they stay healthy.
 

Sun God Nika

Palestine <3.
Apr 22, 2013
19,861
8,246
imagine if we could fuse the two players into one we would get something along the lines with

- Amazing speed/ first step (Zibby )
- Physical / checking / high energey ( Zibby)
- Insane hockey IQ ( Silf )
- Amazing Talent ( Zibby, and Silf )
- Elite shot (Silf )
- Elite playmaking abilities (zibby )
- Durability (Silf )

i think we should name the fusion Zetterberg :)
 

John Holmes*

Guest
There is no arguing.

There is just that I am right, and you are wrong.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
Pierre Dorion on Zibanejad's final two months in the regular season:

"He was 19 and at times he looked like a man among boys"

Imagine what he'll look like at 23 when he's physically developed into a man's body.
 

Sun God Nika

Palestine <3.
Apr 22, 2013
19,861
8,246
if the organization lets go of silfverberg before even giving him a full regular paced season, for winger in a final year of a UFA contract, i would question our scouting staff, and thank god its not gonna happen, because our scouting staff already knows he's gonna be something special,

Im one of the very few people here who thinks Silfverberg should be that player on Spezza's wing next season
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
if the organization lets go of silfverberg before even giving him a full regular paced season, for winger in a final year of a UFA contract, i would question our scouting staff, and thank god its not gonna happen, because our scouting staff already knows he's gonna be something special,

Im one of the very few people here who thinks Silfverberg should be that player on Spezza's wing next season

I agree with you unless we get Bobby Ryan. I'd really like to get someone like Eriksson or Cammalleri and have a top line of Cammy/Eriksson - Spezza - Silfverberg. I think it has a ton of potential to emulate the Pizza line days to an extent.
 

DJB

Registered User
Jan 6, 2009
16,179
10,488
twitter.com
I agree with you unless we get Bobby Ryan. I'd really like to get someone like Eriksson or Cammalleri and have a top line of Cammy/Eriksson - Spezza - Silfverberg. I think it has a ton of potential to emulate the Pizza line days to an extent.

Pretty sure he was alluding to Ryan in his statement.
 

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