Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by Muscle Bob, May 13, 2006.
Is he a idiot ?
They have to prove way much more before one even can compare them with the russians.
That might be an understatement
Absolutely. How can Zaugg make such comparisons based on only 1 (one!) tourney that is still underway
Don't overrate him
I thought the BBC line was Bataglia-Brind'Amour-Cole for the Canes during their cup run?
ZAUGG's articles are getting worse and worse.
Maybe if you showed the whole column instead of two sentences you'd get a fairer picture of what he's actually saying.
Zaugg says right off the top that the KLM is the greatest in the history of international hockey. He goes on to say that they had the benefit, or curse, of playing together for years under the Soviet gulag system. And he speculates about how good the Crosby-Boyes-Bergeron tandem COULD be if they played under that same system.
Talk about taking things out of context.
If you haven't noticed, I was talking about this phrase:
That's right, Soviet gulag system. I doubt Larionov would disagree with me.
Do you have something to say about my other quote ?
What gulag system? Why is it that every athlete from the former soviet union who spent hour after hour in the gym/pitch/ice to become the best have their accomplishment questioned since they where often drafted by the army and sent to an sport academy. Of course the goverment used them for propaganda the same way every country in the world use their sports heroes in propaganda.
Every athlete around the world who wanna be the best will have to give up a lot of private life to reach that goal. It doesnt mather if they live in a dictator state, or a democratic state they all pretty much live similar lives. Work out, work out, work out. When they get injured they all get the best medical care possible, they get money from their sponsors, be it the soviet army or Nike or Adidas or some private sponsor.
What has Soviet GULag system has todo with claiming this:
"Bergeron, Boyes, and Crosby are more complete players than the three famous Russians."
Did you actually watch KLM line (or the Green Unit, for that matter) play in 80s?
Yes, many times, including in person. I don't agree with him on that point, although I have no doubts that Crosby is going to easily eclipse all three and is arguably a more complete player now. It's at least debateable. But that isn't the only sentence in the column that was highlighted.
Can you not read my previous post?
Make no mistake, as a Finn and thus a neighbour, I'm no fan of Soviet Union or the political system there but it's tiring to see the accomplishments of their players continuously underrated and undermined.
People glance and DON'T READ articles.
If you all had READ the article, you would have READ that Zaugg says the KLM line was the best and that the BBC line has the tools to POSSIBLY/COULD EVENTUALLY be as great as the KLM line.
Now stick your heads back in the sand.
As Belarusian, I second that!
Anybody who is comparing BBC to KLM should watch Canada Cup 87 finals. And that was only one tournament of their much decorated career! We'll see what Crosby will do on international scene, but right now these comparisons are atleast ridiculous.
The difference, that you don't seem to grasp, is that athletes in a democratic society have a choice where they play. They are not forced to join the army as an officer just to be able to compete in their sports. They can chance the team if they don't get along with their coach and so on.
In the case of the KLM line do you think they choose to play together, do you think they would have stayed together for so long if they had a choice? Just ask Sascha Mogilny what happened when he decided he doesn't want to become an officer in the Red Army. Ask Helmut Balderis what happened when he said he doesn't want to play for CSKA.
I have tremendous respect for Russian hockey. Players like Tretiak, Kharlamov, Maltesev, Mikhailov, Petrov or Balderis are a few of my favourite players of all time. But that doesn't mean I have to like or defend the system that produced these players.
But we aren't arguing about politics here. In fact, Zaugg never mentioned GULag in his column. The point is, Crosby or Bergeron, no matter how talented they are, have long way to go before they can be compared to the famed KLM line.
But then you have to forget about the KLM line and have to ask yourself who would you take Crosby or Krutov, Larionov or Makarov as individuals? What makes them so special IMO is the fact that the completed each other so outstanding and that they played together for so long. But outside a system where players don't have a voice in this matter you wouldn't see a line as dominating again, simple for the reason that one player might earn more money at another team.
Ok, I do grasp the difference between the systems. And I dont try to defend the Soviet system, I defend the athletes that came out of that system. There seem to be a common idea that the Russians where only soo good cause they where forced to play ice hockey (or any other sport) while the athletes from other countrys just do it for fun. As soon as an athlete have reached the top there is a lot of people who depend on that person to stay at the top. It can be his team who own his contract, it can be the sponsors who need their selling star to produce, it can be a country who need to show how good that countrys athletes are etc.
And for being drafted by the army to become a soldier/officer. Russia is not the only country who use that system. We have that system in Sweden as well even if it is on its way out. And belive me not all the people who have to spend time in the army likes it. And if the country wants it army to work that way should the ones who do sports not be drafted as well? Find that argument strange.