Recalled/Assigned: Zach Sill re-assigned to WBS

Le Magnifique 66

Let's Go Pens
Jun 9, 2006
23,618
3,246
Montreal
So are we OK with this or are we making a Byslma / Shero voodoo doll? Want to make sure I'm on the correct side of the HFB Bipolar Pendulum-swing. :laugh:

All depends on how the guys perform tonight, we lose we can easily blame this one on Shero and the fact that Sill was sent down over Kobasew being waived!!!
 

wgknestrick

Registered User
Aug 14, 2012
5,712
2,281
Didn't CORSI ratings say Tyler Kennedy was better than Sidney Crosby last season? It's not even that advanced of a stat, it's simple arithmetic a layman could do if he actually jotted down every shot (not to mention it is entirely dependent on who the other 9 guys on the ice are). Show me a stat that actually uses calculations to give a rating that incorporates turnovers, turnovers leading to scoring chances, turnovers leading to goals, scoring chances created, scoring chances missed, passes intercepted, turnovers caused, plays leading to a goal for/against, etc. etc. etc. and I'll start looking at them.

Well how about this:

When Sill was on the ice at even strength, if a goal was scored, there is only a 16.7% chance it is for the Penguins vs an 83.3% chance it would be against the Penguins. This is actually worse than Adams (if that is possible).

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=24&type=goals&sort=PCT&sortdir=ASC

Couple that with the fact he is stuck in his own zone (ie the terrible Corsi)........That is even worse than his line mates.......and this is what you have. He may have some potential, but other than that, he looks exactly like an AHL 4th liner would (in the NHL).

You may be able to "hide" him on a line with superior skilled players, but otherwise he is terrible if you expect him to play with the puck on his stick.
 

cheesedanish87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
10,797
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Pittsburgh
OK Bylsma.


Vitale has been much, much better than Sill.

If Vitale is willing to sign a contract for 750k or under i'd sign him, if Vitale wants more then that i'd play Sill and save the 200k+ in salary cap space, i really don't think there is a big drop off between Vitale and Sill.
 

wgknestrick

Registered User
Aug 14, 2012
5,712
2,281
If Vitale is willing to sign a contract for 750k or under i'd sign him, if Vitale wants more then that i'd play Sill and save the 200k+ in salary cap space, i really don't think there is a big drop off between Vitale and Sill.

200K means nothing. You keep Vitale for whatever it takes.
 

cheesedanish87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
10,797
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Pittsburgh
No.

And even one believes that Sill is actually decent, something I think there's NO support for, management clearly doesn't think so...he wouldn't be getting sent down with Vitale out. Makes no sense.

Why doesn't it make sense, Vitale is a free agent next year, somebody can correct me if im wrong, but doesn't sill have to pass waivers next year?

Players like Pyatt Glass Vitale Ebbett might not be with the pens next year, which would open up spots in the bottom 6 for a player like Sill.
 

MrBrightside

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May 5, 2010
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Why doesn't it make sense, Vitale is a free agent next year, somebody can correct me if im wrong, but doesn't sill have to pass waivers next year?

Players like Pyatt Glass Vitale Ebbett might not be with the pens next year, which would open up spots in the bottom 6 for a player like Sill.

If the Pens thought Sill could replace Vitale next season, why wouldn't they have him play Vitale's minutes right now with Vitale out?
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,238
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No.

And even one believes that Sill is actually decent, something I think there's NO support for, management clearly doesn't think so...he wouldn't be getting sent down with Vitale out. Makes no sense.

Sill is a better player than Quicksand and Glass. That doesn't say a whole hell of a lot, but on a team with a woeful bottom six, he should be playing over those two.

Those two are guaranteed spots while the bottom six suffers. It is what it is.

There is no need for people to get riled up though, because you would have to be a mental midget not to see this coming.
 

cheesedanish87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
10,797
2,157
Pittsburgh
If the Pens thought Sill could replace Vitale next season, why wouldn't they have him play Vitale's minutes right now with Vitale out?

They would rather have Ebbett play right now over Sill, some of these guys aren't going to be back in the bottom 6, there are going to be openings in the bottom 6 next year, Sill is a guy that can fill that 4th line center IMO if Vitale leaves.
 

MrBrightside

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May 5, 2010
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They would rather have Ebbett play right now over Sill, some of these guys aren't going to be back in the bottom 6, there are going to be openings in the bottom 6 next year, Sill is a guy that can fill that 4th line center IMO if Vitale leaves.

I'll bet you $2 billion that Zach Sill isn't the 4th line center next season.
 

Tender Rip

Wears long pants
Feb 12, 2007
17,971
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Shanghai, China
1: It isn't right that Sill isn't playing over Kobasew or Gladams if you look solely at performance.
2: Any team that isn't in financial problems would send Sill down now. Not because of Ebbett who will no doubt also be sent down, but simply because Sill doesn't do MUCH more than the above, and none of the guys he would replace are tradeable (wouldn't return anything). Hence sending down Sill eliminates the risk of losing an asset for nothing and maintains depth.

So.... if we object it is merely on general principle. At least Bylsma knows that Sill can be counted on if needed again.
 

IcedCapp

Registered User
Aug 7, 2009
35,854
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Putting aside my personal feelings for Sill, it's obvious that he won't be the 4th-Line C next year, or anything more than the 13th forward to start the year, if you look at Vitale.

It took Joe Vitale how long to become a trusted regular? This season (13-14) is the first I can remember where he wasn't a regular scratch and he was STILL a scratch to make room for Sill against New Jersey earlier in the season. Not Glass, not Adams, etc... but Vitale.

This team brings 4th liners along slower than any other team in the league, so no, Sill won't jump into a starting role next year.
 

AjaxTelamon

Registered User
Jul 8, 2011
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Because Sill isn't good enough to be a regular player in the NHL on a good team.

He's better than other players not being sent down or waived. That is what people are saying. Not that he's the 2nd coming.

If you want to have a stats battle over Sill vs. Glass or Adams, we can do that, but you cannot discount that many reasonable folks believe Sill is better than Glass, Adams, and Kobesew. His cult hero status is because he's a good example of management's obstinate desire to keep Adams and Glass in the lineup no matter how they are playing, or what the alternatives are.

When we're close to healthy again, will we waive Pyatt, or demote Conner, Gibbons or Megna in favor of Adams and Glass? You betcha. And it doesn't matter how anyone involved is playing.
 

madinsomniac

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Jul 3, 2012
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Sill isnt a big loss, but he does bring more physicality and better puck possession skills than Glass or Adams. If you want a PK 4th liner specialist, and its obvious we do, Sill is just a better overall player than Adams or Glass... I even understand keeping Kobe over him, since the potential that Kobe scores is there, but at some point the Gladamss love has to end
 

Tender Rip

Wears long pants
Feb 12, 2007
17,971
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Shanghai, China
Putting aside my personal feelings for Sill, it's obvious that he won't be the 4th-Line C next year, or anything more than the 13th forward to start the year, if you look at Vitale.

Quite likely, yes. But Glass is an UFA and maybe Adams will slow to a crawl. Either way, Sill doesn't have to be a C, he can also work as a winger next to Vitale and on the PK where Bylsma actually trusted him quite a bit.
If he ends up a 13th forward, or even 14th next year..... I have no arguments against that as long as those playing instead aren't nauseating options. Its quite likely that he will be competing with Megna for instance, and obviously the latter is better, just like Vitale is a better 4th line C.
 

MrBrightside

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May 5, 2010
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He's better than other players not being sent down or waived. That is what people are saying. Not that he's the 2nd coming.

If you want to have a stats battle over Sill vs. Glass or Adams, we can do that, but you cannot discount that many reasonable folks believe Sill is better than Glass, Adams, and Kobesew. His cult hero status is because he's a good example of management's obstinate desire to keep Adams and Glass in the lineup no matter how they are playing, or what the alternatives are.

When we're close to healthy again, will we waive Pyatt, or demote Conner, Gibbons or Megna in favor of Adams and Glass? You betcha. And it doesn't matter how anyone involved is playing.

Don't confuse my position on Sill with support for the anti-youth/pro-grinder mentality of the Shero/Bylsma "braintrust." I'd love to see neither of Adams or Glass on this roster (well, they've been very good on the PK this season, and the Pens have been living off special teams, but that can be replaced). The fact that Glass and Adams suck and need to be replaced doesn't mean that Sill is any good and it doesn't mean that he's really an upgrade. I understand that many people think Sill is better than they are, but I would suggest that's due in large part to fatigue of having watched Adams and Glass for years and Sill being the new guy. The Pens need to do better than Glass and Adams, but Sill isn't better.

I'll save my angst for Despres and Megna not getting to play...Sill isn't good enough to justify it.
 

domaug*

Registered User
Nov 27, 2011
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Because Sill isn't good enough to be a regular player in the NHL on a good team.

you should probably read what is actually being posted about Sill. nobody's saying he's going to be the best thing since sliced bread. they're saying that, from the little we've seen of him, he's been better than players like Adams, Glass, Kobasew, etc.

that's not saying much, but that's what's being said. now come on back down to reality with the rest of us.
 

MrBrightside

Registered User
May 5, 2010
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Franklin Park, PA
you should probably read what is actually being posted about Sill. nobody's saying he's going to be the best thing since sliced bread. they're saying that, from the little we've seen of him, he's been better than players like Adams, Glass, Kobasew, etc.

that's not saying much, but that's what's being said. now come on back down to reality with the rest of us.

And I even disagree with that. For as worthless as those guys are, Sill's BEST CASE scenario is being what those guys are now.
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
you should probably read what is actually being posted about Sill. nobody's saying he's going to be the best thing since sliced bread. they're saying that, from the little we've seen of him, he's been better than players like Adams, Glass, Kobasew, etc.

that's not saying much, but that's what's being said. now come on back down to reality with the rest of us.

Sill should be the one we should be pissed isn't playing. Guy bangs, plays great PK and most of all has foot speed.
 

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