Speculation: Z, Kronner and/or Ericsson next season

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
You are aware that Johansen is leading the Preds in points, right?

And that Kuznetsov is third in points behind only Backstrom who routinely plays perennial MVP candidate Alex Ovechkin, right? That he's only got 4 points less than Ovechkin.

I'd contend you DO want those guys leading your team in points.

I'd like to see who you do want leading your team in points if not those guys.

I want my points leader to be going PPG, not .8

Is that really so crazy?
 

Rzombo4 prez

Registered User
May 17, 2012
5,980
2,698
I have a hard time seeing Kronner play NHL hockey beyond this season. Whether that means LTIR, buyout or just retirement I do not know. His knee condition is not going to get better at this point.

Z will be back for 17-18, but I am not sure if he comes back for 18-19 and beyond. He has been great this year, but there is no way that he actually plays out this contract.
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
You certainly do want that. I was just trying to put into context where Z is right now. You do want a younger player to step up and do that... but 24 or 36, I want players who are among the top 20 in scorers. I want guys who are keeping pace with Alex Ovechkin.

Right now, you need Nyquist and Tatar and Larkin and Mantha to all see Z giving it his all and being the best player on the ice and take it to heart that it should be them. Get them to force Z off the top line because their collective play makes that the right choice, not how close Z is to his AARP card.

You know that's a completely different argument right?

Sure, Z is great. It's great that he's so productive at his age. It's NOT great that he's far and away our best player. He's far past his prime and not as productive as he used to be. If he's our best player we're in trouble. That's the issue.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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You know that's a completely different argument right?

Sure, Z is great. It's great that he's so productive at his age. It's NOT great that he's far and away our best player. He's far past his prime and not as productive as he used to be. If he's our best player we're in trouble. That's the issue.

We've never been arguing the same thing in this topic.

I was responding to the ridiculous notion of wanting Z gone now. I was saying that Z, himself, is still a very productive player. Yes, you would prefer that your best player be a young guy and not a 37 year old... but that's not the case in Detroit right now.

I've never said it was a good thing for Detroit that Z was their best player. I'm saying that he is, so for right this second, deal with it. Don't denigrate a great player's legacy because he happens to be 37 and "shouldn't" be the best player on the team.

And onto your "I want him to be PPG" point. There are only 13 guys in the league who fit that criteria. Yeah, I'd like my best player to be one of the 13 best in hockey too... but I'm not gonna cry if he's #25 in the league or so.

The problem in Detroit is the guys surrounding Z, not Z himself. If any of them (Mantha excluded, because he's been very very good) took a step forward, the Wings wouldn't be dead last. If all of them did, like you should expect that they eventually will, they could be approaching contender status. They did not, so the Wings aren't anywhere close to that.

But basically, the whole topic, I've been speaking solely about Z, not about the Wings or his place on the team currently. I've been saying that he's a great player still... not that it's a good thing he's their best.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Cleveland
And onto your "I want him to be PPG" point. There are only 13 guys in the league who fit that criteria. Yeah, I'd like my best player to be one of the 13 best in hockey too... but I'm not gonna cry if he's #25 in the league or so.

The problem in Detroit is the guys surrounding Z, not Z himself. If any of them (Mantha excluded, because he's been very very good) took a step forward, the Wings wouldn't be dead last. If all of them did, like you should expect that they eventually will, they could be approaching contender status. They did not, so the Wings aren't anywhere close to that.

But basically, the whole topic, I've been speaking solely about Z, not about the Wings or his place on the team currently. I've been saying that he's a great player still... not that it's a good thing he's their best.

Yeah, I was about to bring that up, too. on top of that, three of those guys are on Pittsburgh, two in Tampa, and two in Dallas. So, half are on three teams. What's remarkable is the number of teams that don't have that high profile scorer, included the second highest scoring team in the league, Minnesota (though Grandlund is close).

On the one hand, this looks good for us and our whole "well, lets get a bunch of decent guys together and hope the committee can hammer something out" approach. It also looks like no one can buy a goal in this league lately.
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
We've never been arguing the same thing in this topic.

I think that's because you got distracted or couldn't follow what we were saying. I responded to your post about Johansen and Kuznetsov. Then you responded in a strange way. The issue here is that Z is our best player and he's just not good enough. Is he good? Sure. Not good enough. Same with Kuznetsov and Johansen. Great players all, but I don't want them to be our team's undisputed best player with their current level of play. Washington where Kuznetsov is the leader and not Backstrom/Ovechkin isn't much of a team.

It's a fairly simple to understand position.
Don't denigrate a great player's legacy because he happens to be 37 and "shouldn't" be the best player on the team.
I'm not denigrating anything. It's not denigrating to point out that Z has lost a step or that the torch should have been passed by now. It's not denigrating to say that if a 37 year old, not top30 scorer is our team's best player that we're in trouble.
And onto your "I want him to be PPG" point. There are only 13 guys in the league who fit that criteria. Yeah, I'd like my best player to be one of the 13 best in hockey too... but I'm not gonna cry if he's #25 in the league or so.

By points he's #33. There are over 30 players with more points than he has. And since Z's played the whole season, basically all those players are within 2 games played of Z, or have 5-7 fewer games played due to injury.

Which means we lack a top30 point getter in a 30 team league. Which means we're probably not very good. And we're not.
 

NickLidstrom

Ottawa & Detroit fan
Dec 1, 2013
1,774
17
Umeå
I guess how much you want them to stay depends on how much you agree with the quote 'it's never to burn out then fade away'. Personally, I still enjoy watching Z and Kronwall play, even if they aren't the same players they once were. I want them to retire with us on their own schedules. Can you imagine Zetterberg in a Blues jersey?
 

Squirrel in the Hole

Be the best squirrel in the hole
Feb 18, 2004
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Sydney
I guess how much you want them to stay depends on how much you agree with the quote 'it's never to burn out then fade away'. Personally, I still enjoy watching Z and Kronwall play, even if they aren't the same players they once were. I want them to retire with us on their own schedules. Can you imagine Zetterberg in a Blues jersey?

My original question wasn't around whether we or the DRW want them to stay. With Z in particular, I've been lucky enough to see the Wings play live four times in the last few years (including the 2014 Winter Classic) and I can honestly say that the one player that stood out each time for the Wings was Z (and this is with Pav and/or Larkin on the ice).


The question is about whether THEY want to stay. They only have a few years left at best. There's no chance for a Cup here. They can prolong their careers for a while playing in a less stressful league. And, there's the whole question of the Olympics.


Does anyone know if Z intends to stay in Detroit or go home once his career is done?
 
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The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,957
11,577
Ft. Myers, FL
My original question wasn't around whether we or the DRW want them to stay. With Z in particular, I've been lucky enough to see the Wings play live four times in the last few years (including the 2014 Winter Classic) and I can honestly say that the one player that stood out each time for the Wings was Z (and this is with Pav and/or Larkin on the ice).


The question is about whether THEY want to stay. They only have a few years left at best. There's no chance for a Cup here. They can prolong their careers for a while playing in a less stressful league. And, there's the whole question of the Olympics.


Does anyone know if Z intends to stay in Detroit or go home once his career is done?

I would love for Z to join the front office, not sure if he will. Zetterberg in particular because of his wife is super famous at home. He seems to talk fondly of it and they go back most summers, but it sounds like he likes not being as bothered as he is sometimes in Sweden. Not really sure, I don't expect Zetterberg to ask to be traded and I really think he will honor his contract if he is healthy enough to play, he just strikes me as that guy. They put him next to Stevie to learn as a rookie and you have to say all these years later he passed the test.

Z has been putting on his Yzerman in the Oilers series for most of this year. It is impressive how much he cares and how much he puts in. I honestly couldn't admire the guy more, this season has maybe vaulted him to being my favorite Wings player. He still does things the right way, the old school Red Wings way, I hope the young guys are paying close attention. Z, Kronner and Datsyuk were when they were young.
 

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