Your Ideal ECHL Structure

[Nerdlinger]

What would your ideal ECHL look like? What would the teams be, how would they be aligned, who would they be affiliated with, what would be the structure of the season schedule and the postseason? Post your full proposals here!

Here's mine, although I could be easily persuaded to change things around:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Northeast Division
Adirondack Wildcats (MTL)
Albany Senators (OTT)
Elmira Jackals (BUF)
Manchester Monarchs (NYI)
Portland Pirates (POR)
St. John's IceCaps (QUE)
Utica Blizzards (TOR)
Worcester Bruins (BOS)

Atlantic Division
Atlanta Gladiators (NSH)
Florida Everblades (TBL)
Greenville Road Warriors (NJD)
Hartford Wolf Pack (NYR)
Norfolk Admirals (CAR)
Reading Royals (PHI)
South Carolina Stingrays (WSH)
Wheeling Nailers (PIT)

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Midwest Division
Cincinnati Cyclones (CBJ)
Evansville IceMen (WPG)
Fort Wayne Komets (COL)
Indy Fuel (SJS)
Kalamazoo Wings (HAM)
Quad City Mallards (MIN)
Rockford IceHogs (CHI)
Toledo Walleye (DET)

Central Division
Allen Americans (DAL)
Houston Aeros (LAK)
Idaho Steelheads (VAN)
Missouri Mavericks (STL)
Rapid City Rush (CGY)
Tulsa Oilers (EDM)
Utah Grizzlies (ANA)
Wichita Thunder (SEA)

I'd also call it something other than the "ECHL." Many of the affiliations here are randomly assigned, as the NHL parent does not always have a nearby ECHL affiliate available. Here I'm basing the alignment on my ideal NHL alignment, wherein the league has expanded by two and relocated the Coyotes and Panthers. This gives the NHL teams in Seattle, Portland, Hamilton, and Quebec.

Schedule
74 games per season
6 games x 7 division opponents = 42 games
2 games x 8 teams in other division of conference = 16 games
1 game x 16 teams in other conference = 16 games

Point distribution
3 for a regulation win
2 for an overtime/shootout win
1 for an overtime/shootout loss
0 for a regulation loss

Postseason
The same format as the NHL has now

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Share your ideal ECHL too!

And here's the link the ideal AHL thread if you're interested: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1930625

Click to read more...

 

[DTalbot]

My thoughts for minor league hockey in general would be

"AAA"
*AHL- 16 teams (present NHL Eastern Conference AHL affiliates)
*IHL- 7 teams (present NHL Central Division AHL affiliates)
*PCHL- 7 teams (present NHL Pacific Division AHL affilates)

"AA"
*ECHL- 16 teams (present NHL Eastern Conference ECHL affiliates)
*CHL- 7 teams (present NHL Central Division ECHL affiliates)
*WCHL- 7 teams (present NHL Pacific Division AHL affilates)

Break up each tier into three leagues as the teams don't normally play everyone every year anyway. This would make scheduling easier for the minor league teams, cut down on travel expenses, easily accommodate NHL expansion and relocation by adding a AAA and AA team for each expansion slot. If for example the Florida Panthers moved to say San Antonio or Houston (with them probably being shifted to the NHL Central Division have them move their farm teams to the IHL and CHL) or expansion teams were added to Las Vegas and Seattle, you would then add two teams to both the PCHL and WCHL. Have the western leagues play a few two games in a row in the same town weekends (Friday night/Saturday afternoon or Saturday night/Sunday afternoon) to cut down on travel/hotel expenses even more (by having the teams travel back the evening of the second game instead of staying in hotels for an extra night). Six opponents x 12 games (six in each rink) =72. With this you could have one additional game a week (starting the season mid-October and ending early April (approx. 25 weeks). With having fewer teams to need to get into each arena a 2 game series would easier to manage. Have the closer teams play most of their games as the mid-week game to cut down on the need for hotels after these games.

Have two futures games as part of either the NHL All Star Weekend or as their own stand alone event during the middle of the season.

Post Season:
Only have the teams play against the other leagues in a post season tournament with the IHL and PCHL champions playing while the AHL is playing the Calder Cup Final and CHL and WCHL champions playing while the ECHL is playing the Kelly Cup Final and have the last two teams play in a AAA & AA championship series.

Ownership of teams:
Either have straight up ownership by NHL teams or have a hybrid approach with some NHL input on how the minor league teams are run, as some of the smaller market teams may not want to (or be able to afford) own two affiliates outright.


Some of these moves are based on already reported relocations such as St. John's to Laval (with the opening of a new arena there in 2017), Winnipeg trying to get a rink built in Thunder Bay as a new home for their AHL team; speculation on the relocation of teams between Hartford, Bridgeport, and Uniondale (with renovations planned in Uniondale and the arena in Hartford possibly being torn down and replaced).
affiliations
NHL/AHL/ECHL

Boston/Providence/Worcester
Montreal/Laval/Quebec City
Ottawa/Hamilton/Manchester
Buffalo/Rochester/Elmira
Toronto/Toronto/Brampton
Florida/Atlanta/Estero
Tampa/Orlando/Jacksonville
Detroit/Grand Rapids/Toledo or Kalamazoo
NY Islanders/Uniondale/Springfield MA
NY Rangers/Hartford/Bridgeport
New Jersey/Albany/Binghamton
Philadelphia/Allentown/Reading
Pittsburgh/Wilkes Barre/Wheeling
Columbus/Cleveland/Cincinnati
Washington/Hershey/Baltimore
Carolina/Charlotte/N Charleston SC

NHL/IHL/CHL
Chicago/Chicago/Indianapolis
Winnipeg/Thunder Bay/Saskatoon or Regina
St. Louis/Kansas City/Independence
Dallas/Cedar Park (Austin)/Allen
Colorado/Denver/Loveland, CO
Minnesota/Des Moines/Quad City
Nashville/Milwaukee/Memphis

NHL/PCHL/WCHL
Calgary/Casper/Anchorage
Edmonton/Bakersfield/Boise
Vancouver/Abbotsford/Victoria
San Jose/Daly City or San Francisco/Salt Lake City
Los Angeles/Ontario, CA/Long Beach
Anaheim/San Diego/Las Vegas
Arizona/Prescott Valley, AZ/Albuquerque


off the top of my head some cities that could be added (some at higher levels than on my list) with NHL expansion/relocation or alternate choices for teams
East: Quebec City, Hartford, Portland ME, St. John's, Mississauga-Hamilton (or Golden Horseshoe area in general), Burlington VT, Halifax, NS, Richmond VA
Central: Milwaukee, Omaha, Kansas City, San Antonio, Bismark, Fargo-Moorhead, Green Bay, Houston, New Orleans, Birmingham
Pacific: Seattle, Las Vegas, Sacramento, Portland, Tri-Cities, WA, Spokane, Fairbanks AK, Cheyenne

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

That's surely interesting....I like splitting up the leagues. I mean most of these leagues don't play in season. Why have two big leagues? Regionalize it.

 

[JackalsKnuckles]

My ideal setup would be to scrap the affiliations altogether. Have a few regional leagues where AHL teams could pull guys up if needed, but don't have formal affiliations. Once a "parent club" is involved then it is no longer about winning and the parent club has too much say.

Look at major junior. The CHL is chock full of prospects, and probably has more guys who can step right into an NHL lineup, yet there is very little influence from the NHL. Coaches in the CHL are paid to WIN. Too many ECHL and AHL organizations are set up to "develop players" which is code talk for not really caring about winning.

Not sure why everyone is so hung up on this 30-30-30 system. Those that are likely have not watched much of the current ECHL product, or, if they have, are not familiar with the fact that there is an alternative. If you are concerned about benefitting the AHL and NHL clubs then the 30-30-30 model might be best, but if you are concerned about having entertaining hockey in your city where the goal is to win, then the affiliation arrangement is the farthest thing from that.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Affiliations at this level are nothing but to put fannies in the seats.

 

[Hurricane Ron]

Ideal ECHL structure

Just wished the league would go to a balanced schedule. I realize with 28 teams, that can be difficult. However, teams within a division should play a similar schedule. One option would be for teams within a division to play each other the same amount of games, then play one other division within the conference the same amount, and a division in the opposite conference the same number of games. That way, fans would see a number of teams during the season.

One example would be playing the current 72 game schedule, with 4 games against the teams in another division within the same conference (2 home and 2 away); 4 games against teams in another division in the other conference (2 home and 2 away); and the remainder against the teams within the same division. Since two of the divisions have only 4 teams, this would impact the number of games within the division.

With playoff spots at a premium, this would ensure the best teams make the playoffs; instead of a team getting into the playoffs by virtue of playing a weaker schedule than other teams within its division/conference.

The divisions the teams face outside of their current division could be on a rotating basis, similar to what the NFL does in its scheduling.

If the league can get to 30 teams, with 5 teams per division, it would be very simple. 40 games outside the division (4 games versus 10 other teams in two divisions, one division within conference, one division outside); and then 32 games within the division (8 games versus the other 4 teams in the division).

Here's hoping this happens in the next couple of years.

 

[royals119]

I agree that would be ideal, but I doubt we get to that point. At least in the east, geography and costs are still important. There are going to be teams whose closest opponent is not in the same division, or who have a non-division team that is closer than some of the in division teams. For example, Reading is closer to Wheeling (non-divison) than it is to Norfolk, Manchester, and Adirondack (all in-division). I haven't looked it up, but Norfolk is probably closer to Gwinnett, Greenville, and S.C. than it is to Elmira, Manchester and Adirondack. For teams to give up those shorter bus trips, and geograhic rivals, doesn't make financial sense.

With your schedule those nearby, out of division, teams would only meet every three years. There would still need to be some leeway in the schedule for non-division games between teams that are geographically close together.

 

[royals119]

Affiliations at this level are nothing but to put fannies in the seats.

Even if that were true, is that such a bad thing? My ideal ECHL is one where my local team has the best chance to survive. If having an affiliation brings in more fans, the team makes more money, and that is a good thing.

The other thing affiliations do is to attract a higher quality of player. Over the last several years we have seen the division three players, former Canadian college players, and lower tier junior players disappear from ECHL rosters. Most teams are now made up of division 1 college graduates, and players from top level juniors. Many of them are NHL draft picks who either didn't get signed, or played out their entry level contract and are looking to get back to the AHL. Without the affiliation "carrot" many of these guys would not be in the ECHL playing for $500 a week.

Also, the national structure of the league allows for significant economic advantages. A bigger league will have lower costs for things like insurance, and they can get national advertising revenue that a small regional league can't attract. Splitting the league up into multiple small leagues doesn't have any real advantage, and it does have significant economic disadvantages.

 

[AlanMSaunders]

Affiliations at this level are nothing but to put fannies in the seats.

Tell that to the 32 Nailers players that have made it to the NHL since they've been affiliated with the Penguins.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Tell that to the 32 Nailers players that have made it to the NHL since they've been affiliated with the Penguins.

You're talking one team though. I'm not sure when the affiliation started but back in the early 2000s the penguins themselves were barely even a quality AHL team in the NHL. The organization had tons of work to do. So that didn't hurt them. Most organizations though they have affiliations in the minor leagues don't usually construct a team totally from the ground up. Usually they make trades or sign a few free agents. Also one would have to dive into that number a bit. Did they all stay up? Was it a short stint? I remember even though he didn't play a game for them in that scenario a few years back they reassigned this guy tangradi all the way to Wheeling one day. But he didn't play for them. If that area wasn't so dirt poor they'd probably be the AHL team because its an hour away. But that is never gunna happen. They will be lucky to last at this level long term. Ironic you mention this though because on the ice the franchise has had a lot of not so great years on the ice.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Even if that were true, is that such a bad thing? My ideal ECHL is one where my local team has the best chance to survive. If having an affiliation brings in more fans, the team makes more money, and that is a good thing.

The other thing affiliations do is to attract a higher quality of player. Over the last several years we have seen the division three players, former Canadian college players, and lower tier junior players disappear from ECHL rosters. Most teams are now made up of division 1 college graduates, and players from top level juniors. Many of them are NHL draft picks who either didn't get signed, or played out their entry level contract and are looking to get back to the AHL. Without the affiliation "carrot" many of these guys would not be in the ECHL playing for $500 a week.

Also, the national structure of the league allows for significant economic advantages. A bigger league will have lower costs for things like insurance, and they can get national advertising revenue that a small regional league can't attract. Splitting the league up into multiple small leagues doesn't have any real advantage, and it does have significant economic disadvantages.

I'm not privy to any info on this but I'm going to guess most AHL/ECHL franchises are losing money. There's a few guesses on who is making money. I think easy ones of teams off well financially are Hershey, Fort Wayne, Colorado and well formerly St. John's(the last two were like selling our all the time) Even with affiliations a lot of teams still lose money. Not sure about ECHL teams but AHL teams pay a hefty annual affiliation fee. Not sure if there even is an ECHL affiliation fee. If there is I'd only guess it would be to AHL teams.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Just wished the league would go to a balanced schedule. I realize with 28 teams, that can be difficult. However, teams within a division should play a similar schedule. One option would be for teams within a division to play each other the same amount of games, then play one other division within the conference the same amount, and a division in the opposite conference the same number of games. That way, fans would see a number of teams during the season.

One example would be playing the current 72 game schedule, with 4 games against the teams in another division within the same conference (2 home and 2 away); 4 games against teams in another division in the other conference (2 home and 2 away); and the remainder against the teams within the same division. Since two of the divisions have only 4 teams, this would impact the number of games within the division.

With playoff spots at a premium, this would ensure the best teams make the playoffs; instead of a team getting into the playoffs by virtue of playing a weaker schedule than other teams within its division/conference.

The divisions the teams face outside of their current division could be on a rotating basis, similar to what the NFL does in its scheduling.

If the league can get to 30 teams, with 5 teams per division, it would be very simple. 40 games outside the division (4 games versus 10 other teams in two divisions, one division within conference, one division outside); and then 32 games within the division (8 games versus the other 4 teams in the division).

Here's hoping this happens in the next couple of years.

I don't think its unrealistic for every East team to do a home and home with each team. Same for the West.

In the East....Norfolk is kinda on an island. Like Charlotte in the AHL. Atleast in SC and FL there's two teams. You'd have to do probably two separate trips for the Southern teams to do the Northeast and Ohio/Indiana teams though. Those other teams could do the Southern swing in one trip because there's half the number of those.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I'm not so sure affiliations make any difference in attendance.

I've never heard anyone say, "Let's go to the Cyclones game tonight so we can watch a few guys who are affiliated with Nashville who have virtually no chance of being NHL impact players".

Affiliation has turned what used to be a very physical league with tons of fighting into a no check, no fighting league in most of its games. Low minor league hockey has gone from 59 teams in 2001-02 (29 ECHL/16 CHL/ 14 UHL) to 28 ECHL teams which will start the 2015-16 season. That's over a 50% reduction in 14 years.

In five years, the ECHL will be lucky to have 20 teams. Affiliation-and the drastic change in playing styles of the low minors as a result-might actually be killing AA hockey. It's very hard to make the case that it's been beneficial for it.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I'm not so sure affiliations make any difference in attendance.

I've never heard anyone say, "Let's go to the Cyclones game tonight so we can watch a few guys who are affiliated with Nashville who have virtually no chance of being NHL impact players".

Affiliation has turned what used to be a very physical league with tons of fighting into a no check, no fighting league in most of its games. Low minor league hockey has gone from 59 teams in 2001-02 (29 ECHL/16 CHL/ 14 UHL) to 28 ECHL teams which will start the 2015-16 season. That's over a 50% reduction in 14 years.

In five years, the ECHL will be lucky to have 20 teams. Affiliation-and the drastic change in playing styles of the low minors as a result-might actually be killing AA hockey. It's very hard to make the case that it's been beneficial for it.

no, the ECHL IS and has been attempting to go 30, I don't foresee any rollback or contraction once that # is REACHED, Cyclones Rock, in fact haven't the Cyclones contributed to that by suspending operations for multiple seasons at least 4 times even when a higher league and affiliation, partly by acquiring the assets of both the CHL and the UHL/IHL SEE Fort Wayne, Evansville, etc, and now with the Cyclones aligning themselves exclusively with Nashville/Milwaukee, that's the exact same model the AHL used and was faced with back in the late 1970s, when Milwaukee was founded. the AHL did the exact same thing in 2001, when it went from 21 to 27, the 1 to 1 to 1 affiliate ratio between the 3 leagues and eventually ending the dual affiliation model for those that have it now, even despite the upheaval of a Pacific Division being created in the AHL beginning this year.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Lol...the ECHL has a few franchises that are staring death in the face. Elmira and wheeling are pretty well known. Jury is still out on a place like Quad City and Brampton. They inherited some weak CHL franchises.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I'm not so sure affiliations make any difference in attendance.

I've never heard anyone say, "Let's go to the Cyclones game tonight so we can watch a few guys who are affiliated with Nashville who have virtually no chance of being NHL impact players".

Affiliation has turned what used to be a very physical league with tons of fighting into a no check, no fighting league in most of its games. Low minor league hockey has gone from 59 teams in 2001-02 (29 ECHL/16 CHL/ 14 UHL) to 28 ECHL teams which will start the 2015-16 season. That's over a 50% reduction in 14 years.

In five years, the ECHL will be lucky to have 20 teams. Affiliation-and the drastic change in playing styles of the low minors as a result-might actually be killing AA hockey. It's very hard to make the case that it's been beneficial for it.

They don't care about you the diehard because you'll go anyway. They say "the future stars of tomorrow or future stars of the insert NHL affiliated team here." Hoping that will get the casual people in.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

no, the ECHL IS and has been attempting to go 30, I don't foresee any rollback or contraction once that # is REACHED, Cyclones Rock, in fact haven't the Cyclones contributed to that by suspending operations for multiple seasons at least 4 times even when a higher league and affiliation, partly by acquiring the assets of both the CHL and the UHL/IHL SEE Fort Wayne, Evansville, etc, and now with the Cyclones aligning themselves exclusively with Nashville/Milwaukee, that's the exact same model the AHL used and was faced with back in the late 1970s, when Milwaukee was founded. the AHL did the exact same thing in 2001, when it went from 21 to 27, the 1 to 1 to 1 affiliate ratio between the 3 leagues and eventually ending the dual affiliation model for those that have it now, even despite the upheaval of a Pacific Division being created in the AHL beginning this year.

The Cyclones suspended operations once-from 2004-06.

ECHL franchises which could be at risk in the next 5 years: Elmira, Wheeling, Reading, South Carolina, Kalamazoo, Brampton, Quad City, Idaho, Utah, Greenville, Florida, Gwinnett, and Orlando. I don't know much about the some of the CHL transplants (Wichita,Tulsa, Allen and Missouri).

The ECHL is far more likely to sink to as low as 20 franchises than rise to 30 over the next five years.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

The Cyclones suspended operations once-from 2004-06.

ECHL franchises which could be at risk in the next 5 years: Elmira, Wheeling, Reading, South Carolina, Kalamazoo, Brampton, Quad City, Idaho, Utah, Greenville, Florida, Gwinnett, and Orlando. I don't know much about the some of the CHL transplants (Wichita,Tulsa, Allen and Missouri).

The ECHL is far more likely to sink to as low as 20 franchises than rise to 30 over the next five years.

A couple of those are transplants in your list.

Kalamazoo is quite interesting. I know there's been talk of potentially a new arena in the past and the owners do seem to have the cash to burn. It seemed like from some of the chatter where they wanted to put the arena didn't seem ideal to fans.

I'm not shocked by any team on that list though. Agree more likely to sink than get to 30 stable. There's not even 30 stable AHL franchises really.

 

[GareFan18]

I like breaking the AAA and AA level up into leagues like they do in baseball.

However, this would never work:
St. Louis/Kansas City/Independence

You see, Independence IS Kansas City. We here in KC are a good minor league hockey market, but I don't think we're quite good enough for two teams.

I think it would be great if KC had an affiliation -- AAA or AA -- with St. Louis. As a 21-year resident of KC and an avid follower of the Blades and Mavericks, I've always thought an affiliation with St. Louis would be a great attendance driver (even though our attendance is currently really good.)

 

[Predarat]

I like breaking the AAA and AA level up into leagues like they do in baseball.

However, this would never work:
St. Louis/Kansas City/Independence

You see, Independence IS Kansas City. We here in KC are a good minor league hockey market, but I don't think we're quite good enough for two teams.

I think it would be great if KC had an affiliation -- AAA or AA -- with St. Louis. As a 21-year resident of KC and an avid follower of the Blades and Mavericks, I've always thought an affiliation with St. Louis would be a great attendance driver (even though our attendance is currently really good.)

Looks like Wichita was left out all together so that could fix it, StLouis/KansasCity/Wichita

 

[GareFan18]

Looks like Wichita was left out all together so that could fix it, StLouis/KansasCity/Wichita

I think that would be great. Wichita's arena is nice. Wichita should be included in any scenario that involves AAA and AA hockey markets. No way they should be left out (even though we hate them during the season...)

 

[Nightsquad]

Affiliations at this level are nothing but to put fannies in the seats.

Again have to disagree with you. The ECHL website clearly lists the registry of ECHLers who have gone on to the NHL. The list does not even include those two way ECHL/AHL players who play back and forth in both leagues. Clearly that indicates there are players so on the fringe they cannot always be up in the AHL. Pro players who at any given year in their young pro careers could find themselves playing at the NHL level.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

The Cyclones suspended operations once-from 2004-06.

ECHL franchises which could be at risk in the next 5 years: Elmira, Wheeling, Reading, South Carolina, Kalamazoo, Brampton, Quad City, Idaho, Utah, Greenville, Florida, Gwinnett, and Orlando. I don't know much about the some of the CHL transplants (Wichita,Tulsa, Allen and Missouri).

The ECHL is far more likely to sink to as low as 20 franchises than rise to 30 over the next five years.

I'd love to know your criteria for that list.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Some of them are common knowledge of teams on current life support due to attendance and public information(Elmira and Wheeling)