Yashin vs Weight

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GabbyDugan

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Jun 8, 2004
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I'm a huge Oiler fan going back to the WHA days, and I certainly appreciate what the EIG has done to keep this franchise here. However, I'm not accepting part and parcel Cal Nichol's contention that this market's revenues have topped out.

I think the EIG oversold the small-market, disadvantaged-Canadian-team concept. If the CBA had run for one more year , the Oilers had a good shot at both a lofty spot in the standings and a big financial gain. They can't change horses now and have to support the lockout, but I'm sure a part of Cal Nichols would love to be doing business with his $35 million hockey team when the Canadian dollar is trading above 80 cents US.

I get chopped up fairly regularly on the boards for trying to downplay the expectations of a new CBA helping the Oilers, but I still contend the EIG and Edmonton Oilers will still have a huge challenge ahead of them even if the NHL owners "win" this lockout. I think it's a winnable challenge and that Edmonton is a very good NHL market, but the Oilers are going to still have to outwork other NHL teams in the front office as well as on the ice. The Oilers have been getting better at drafting and player development in the last few years, but it still is going to take a lot of work and some good luck to build a winner. If a new CBA forces rich teams to jettison talented players at discount prices, just as many of those guys are likely to end up in Phoenix, Nashville, Florida, Atlanta, Minnesota, Columbus, or possibly even on Russian Elite teams as will end up in Edmonton.

Last season 57,000 Oiler fans paid an average of $90 to sit in -30 temperatures to watch a hockey game. Pat LaForge said they could have charged $200 to get into Commonwealth Stadium and still had a sellout. I certainly don't think Edmonton could sell as many $200 hockey tickets as Toronto or New York City, but I think there is a little more wriggle room in the ticket prices in Edmonton than some people want to believe, and maybe a lot of that wriggle room is at the high end.

Why do we assume that Edmonton fans won't pay a little more money to watch this team play? Every ticket is sold every year for games after early December.

I haven't quite figured out why Oiler fans are content (and maybe even expecting) to pay less than half of what a Ranger fan pays to watch a team that might be an also ran. Oiler fans shouldn't be happy paying two-bit prices to watch a team put in a two-bit performance. When I buy a suit, I don't want to look like I'm wearing something I bought off the bargain rack, so I gladly pay extra to feel like I'm looking my best. Why shouldn't Oiler fans want to pay good prices for a good and improving/stylish product rather than bargain basemant prices for a product that is more of the same old same old?

I've seen scalpers doing boffo business outside Rexall Place every time I've gone to a weekend game and usually during the week when the visiting team isn't named after a bird or insect. Couldn't the Oilers restructure their prices and charge a premium ticket price for premium games? I don't usually see these scalpers inside Rexall Place gorging themselves on $ 4 hotdogs and guzzling down $ 5 plastic cups of beer, so I see no harm in the Oilers claiming the scalpers income for themselves.

From everything I've heard, all the luxury suites and boxes in Rexall Place are spoken for. Since the lunchbucket crowd serves an NHL team better as a captive TV audience, why don't the Oilers rip out a few more cheaper upper deck seats and build another handful of suites? (not sure if the old building can handle this in its present configuration, but there does still seem to be some wriggle room in this market niche for the Oilers....maybe it's time to start planning to replace the 30-year old building....it's the arena that kills a hockey market more than any CBA )

Television? I think the Canadian teams like Edmonton have a huge advantage over the American teams. Edmonton still hasn't quite saturated the Pay Per View option, and may have merely scratched the surface. Last year a couple of games were shown in movie theatres and one or two of the sold out, non-televised home games were shown at the Jubilee Auditorium. With HDTV and digital still in its infancy, I'm not convinced that television revenues have been saturated for a team like the Edmonton Oilers. As it is, if the American teams kept all the NBC and ESPN2 money and the Canadian teams could repatriate the CBC and TSN money instead of sharing it with Comcast, MSG Network, Disney, Tom Hicks, and the other American owners, the Oilers would probably have a few million to put in the bank or spend on players right there.

Sponsorships and advertising? Edmonton is supposed to be a small market with little corporate support. So why is Vancouver being dropped from the Champ Car Circuit while Edmonton's Finning International Speedway is hosting the series for the next three years? I heard the reasons are because it was easier to find corporate support and sell premium-priced three day packages in Edmonton than it was in British Columbia's Lower Mainland. I realize that a July car race isn't the same kettle of fish as a 41-game NHL season, but I think there may be more corporate and fan support for sports in Edmonton than this city gets credit for.

I don't think there is such a thing as a saturated market, but markets are dynamic and can grow or wane for a number of reasons. Calgary missed the playoffs for seven years, and had last won a playoff round in 1989. They made the playoffs by a mere five point margin, and next thing you know a "Red Mile" turns every bar and restaurant within sight of the arena into an instant gold mine. A jersey supplier had to go into round-the-clock production and delay all other products to meet the demand for Flames apparel. Fans put deposits on season tickets for next year just to get into the Saddledome to see a playoff game. People went to the Saddledome (admittedly the cost of admission was minimal) and filled it to the rafters to watch the Flames play on a television screen.

As has been pointed out in other threads, decisions by Oiler management concerning drafting, player development, and trades have been factors in the performance of the team on the ice. Some people think the CBA has hamstrung the Oilers and therefore the team is at a disadvantage, but maybe it's a chicken-and-egg kind of thing. If the Oilers had performed marginally better, then the CBA looks great. If the Oilers get worse or stay the same, then the CBA really stinks.

As an Oiler fan, certainly I want a new CBA to be better for the Oilers than the old one. However, there are now 14 teams that miss the playoffs every year, not just five like there were in the glory days. If a new CBA helps the Oilers, its going to help Minnesota, Columbus, Nashville, Calgary ...teams that are going to be wanting one of those eight playoff spots every year. No matter what form the new CBA takes, there still won't be any new 40 goal scorers or goalies who can save 94% of the shots they face. The NHL and NHLPA can only help the Oilers so much...it's still up to team management to make the Oilers better than at least six other Western Conference teams every year just to make the playoffs.
 

Tom_Benjamin

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Sep 8, 2003
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www.canuckscorner.com
GabbyDugan said:
I think the EIG oversold the small-market, disadvantaged-Canadian-team concept.

Great post, Gabby.

I think the entire NHL oversold this idea. The league was very unlucky with the timing of the dispute. When they started the PR campaign, they could nearly make a competitive balance argument fly because the rlite teams looked invincible. The Canadian dollar was in the toilet - or rather the US dollar was in a bubble. Rod Bryden hadn't published any books. The story - Canadian teams outside of Toronto were doomed - almost seemed credible. Salaries continued to climb dramatically.

Then all that changed. Salary growth slowed, the true story in Ottawa became public, the US dollar bubble burst, and 12 different teams make the Conference Finals in three years. It is frankly amazing to me that the NHL can still sell the same tired story.

If the CBA had run for one more year , the Oilers had a good shot at both a lofty spot in the standings and a big financial gain. They can't change horses now and have to support the lockout, but I'm sure a part of Cal Nichols would love to be doing business with his $35 million hockey team when the Canadian dollar is trading above 80 cents US.

An irony, right? I would have picked Edmonton to pass either the Blues or the Stars this year. But this is the critical point. It is very hard to imagine for most hockey fans, but suppose hockey is a business pretty much like any other. The owners are all smart guys who are in this for the money. The profits come in franchise appreciation, tax savings (when the team loses money) and big profits when the team succeeds. Just suppose.

I think the league would look exactly like it does today.

When the team is not very good and revenues are down, they make a little or lose a little as long as they keep the payroll low. When the team is outstanding, revenues are high, but so is the payroll. Unless you are Toronto or New York, profits won't be outrageous. They should be good, but not great.

The best time to own a team is exactly now for Cal Nichols. He's making money. He's waiting. If Conklin is for real, if Brewer takes another step, if Hemsky delivers some goals, if Dvorak stars... the Oilers have a surprise team. Revenues take the jump, expenses don't. The two or three years that it takes for payroll to catch up to team quality are the most profitable in the cycle.

The opposite is also true. You can't get caught like St. Louis or Washington with a big payroll and loser's revenues. In the past 15 years, the Canucks went from poor to rich to very poor and now they are back to rich.

Tom
 

CorneliusBennet

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Nov 29, 2004
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Tom, I would have to dispute the claim that Bill and Nancy Laurie make regarding the losses they incur in their ownership of the Blues. They have, I feel, overexagerated the losses. That's not the point, though. I don't feel they have "loser's revenues" as you put it. They made the playoffs (and did their usual routine of not advancing) but "loser's revenues" should be reserved for teams that don't get ANY post-season monies. Not the case with the Blues.
And they would have made the playoffs yet again this year, in my opinion. That's not a discussion for this board, however.
 

thinkwild

Veni Vidi Toga
Jul 29, 2003
10,815
1,468
Ottawa
GabbyDugan said:
Television? I think the Canadian teams like Edmonton have a huge advantage over the American teams. Edmonton still hasn't quite saturated the Pay Per View option, and may have merely scratched the surface. Last year a couple of games were shown in movie theatres and one or two of the sold out, non-televised home games were shown at the Jubilee Auditorium. With HDTV and digital still in its infancy, I'm not convinced that television revenues have been saturated for a team like the Edmonton Oilers. As it is, if the American teams kept all the NBC and ESPN2 money and the Canadian teams could repatriate the CBC and TSN money instead of sharing it with Comcast, MSG Network, Disney, Tom Hicks, and the other American owners, the Oilers would probably have a few million to put in the bank or spend on players right there
Great read, thanks.

When you put it in terms of repatriating CBC and TSN money instead of sharing with Comcast, MSG, it shines it in a humourous perspective.

I wonder if all the owners have a plan for expanding televisions ability to extract revenue from the lunchbucket and family crowd more typically who watch on TV. If the camera work can, like IMAX or something bring a new experience to watching the game in theatres, or gives video game updates, Friday night at the movies could take off. And just because Bettman negotiated a deal preceding the lockout with no up fronts rights fees, NBC still seems poised to be bold and make money from it. I wonder what wondrous new ways television will change. Network execs are always on the visionary comittees now.
 

thinkwild

Veni Vidi Toga
Jul 29, 2003
10,815
1,468
Ottawa
Tom_Benjamin said:
suppose hockey is a business pretty much like any other. The owners are all smart guys who are in this for the money. The profits come in franchise appreciation, tax savings (when the team loses money) and big profits when the team succeeds. Just suppose.

I think the league would look exactly like it does today.

Do you think there's anything to the idea that the reason the system worked so well, was because it was during a time of expansion where there were many teams starting from scratch, and more easily able to follow the discipline required? In the coming time of more mature franchises, changes to the cycle are needed?
 

Isles72

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
4,520
465
Canada
Herbie Verstinks said:
LOL

Wouldnt you rather have Jokinen, Heatley and Luongo?

I remember the day of the trade just like it was yesterday .

The draft special wasnt even a minute into progress when they announced the deal .I had a nice big bowl of popcorn and an ice cold coca cola ready for two hours of draft fun and it was all over in two minutes .
 

Captain Lou

Registered User
Apr 2, 2004
4,347
49
GabbyDugan said:
I'm a huge Oiler fan going back to the WHA days, and I certainly appreciate what the EIG has done to keep this franchise here. However, I'm not accepting part and parcel Cal Nichol's contention that this market's revenues have topped out....

That might be the most intelligent post I have ever read on this forum. Thanks, Gabby!

:handclap:
 

dawgbone

Registered User
Jun 24, 2002
21,104
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Let's put it this way...

Had Slats done even a half decent job when he dismantled one of the greatest teams in NHL history, Oiler fans probably wouldn't be complaining.

Had this lockout happened 7-8 years ago, Canuck fans would be jumping up and down in support of it.

Had it happened 4 years ago, Sens fans would be jumping up and down.

It's just the semantics of the timing.
 
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