Yashin vs Weight

[Brent Burns Beard]

I am curious why OTT was able to turn Yashin into gold and EDM couldnt turn Weight into anything ?

Does the fact that EDM has not only drafted poorly, but also traded poorly not have any bearing on their ability to compete on the ice ?

Its not like OTT didnt have similar pressures when dealing Yashin, if not more. Its not like just about every team in the league wouldnt prefer Weight over Yashin and its also not like one of them was going to be signed for any cheap contract.

How come OTT managed to land Spezza AND Chara, but EDM barely got a jock strap (or so EDM fans say). ?

So while OTT has been drafting Hossa, Havlat, Volchenkov, Alfreddson, Phillips, Fisher, Vermette and so on, EDM has drafted not even one player of this calibre.

Is it no wonder why EDM is barely a playoff contender ? Ok, I get it, EDM has some challenges in the market. fine and i support the efforts being made by the NHLPA to address those problems, however to suggest the league MUST lock down the NHL to save a team like EDM is folly. really, can EDM not compete in the NHL if there are changes to arbitration, rookie contracts, luxury taxes (which they will be recieving) and the other suggestions ?

is this not enough ? what else do the fans of the other markets have to endure so that EDM can compete ?

DR

Click to read more...

 

[mudcrutch79]

is this not enough ? what else do the fans of the other markets have to endure so that EDM can compete ?

You *******s keep electing Liberal governments who rob the West...payback time.

How's your aging team gonna look after not stepping on the ice for two years?

 

[Ensane]

DR

You certainly bring up an interesting point in comparing and contrasting the situations of Edmonton and Ottawa in respect to Weight and Yashin.

And certainly, the difference between Edmonton and Ottawa of present day is the drafting and trading abilities of both teams.

Not sure I fully agree on your final points about the lockout being only about small market teams such as Edmonton. After all, the league as a whole has many problems which needed to be dealt with, but instead they were just swept under the rug, waiting for Sept. 2004 to roll around.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

You *******s keep electing Liberal governments who rob the West...payback time.

How's your aging team gonna look after not stepping on the ice for two years?

???

i live in Calgary (hardly Liberal area) and cheer for the Canucks.

thats the sound of something going over my head ... huh

dr

 

[no13matssundin]

???

i live in Calgary (hardly Liberal area) and chear for the Canucks.

thats the sound of something going over my head ... huh

dr

its "CHEER"

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

its "CHEER"

thanks ..... i feel shame.

 

[Buffaloed]

You *******s keep electing Liberal governments who rob the West...payback time.

How's your aging team gonna look after not stepping on the ice for two years?

Stick to the topic, or don't reply.

 

[me2]

How come OTT managed to land Spezza AND Chara, but EDM barely got a jock strap (or so EDM fans say). ?
DR

Mike Milbury was in a buying mood. End of argument.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

Ottawa even sued Yashin to play that season he held out for, amazing stuff. More teams should do that to holdouts.

 

[BuppY]

I would take Weight over Yashin!!!!!

 

[EJsens1]

I am curious why OTT was able to turn Yashin into gold and EDM couldnt turn Weight into anything ?

Does the fact that EDM has not only drafted poorly, but also traded poorly not have any bearing on their ability to compete on the ice ?

Its not like OTT didnt have similar pressures when dealing Yashin, if not more. Its not like just about every team in the league wouldnt prefer Weight over Yashin and its also not like one of them was going to be signed for any cheap contract.

How come OTT managed to land Spezza AND Chara, but EDM barely got a jock strap (or so EDM fans say). ?

So while OTT has been drafting Hossa, Havlat, Volchenkov, Alfreddson, Phillips, Fisher, Vermette and so on, EDM has drafted not even one player of this calibre.

Is it no wonder why EDM is barely a playoff contender ? Ok, I get it, EDM has some challenges in the market. fine and i support the efforts being made by the NHLPA to address those problems, however to suggest the league MUST lock down the NHL to save a team like EDM is folly. really, can EDM not compete in the NHL if there are changes to arbitration, rookie contracts, luxury taxes (which they will be recieving) and the other suggestions ?

is this not enough ? what else do the fans of the other markets have to endure so that EDM can compete ?

DR

As to the trades, I think Ottawa lucked out more on Chara. At the time, the 2nd overall pick was the main factor, seeing as it was going to be Spezza, who was highly touted. I doubt Ottawa anticipated that Chara would be this good. I remember the talk at the time was trying to get Isbister or Scatchard thrown into the deal over Muckalt. I'm not suggesting that Chara was a throw-in in the deal, but his impact I think was a huge over-achievement from what Ottawa thought they would get. I mean, Chara for Yashin at this point is has Ottawa making out like bandits, Spezza is just gravy.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Mike Milbury was in a buying mood. End of argument.

i see, so EDM is unlucky or OTT is lucky ... ??

how about VAN when they dealt a 10m Pavel Bure. At least they got Jovanovski. Or was VAN lucky too ? heck, VAN even managed to land a Morrison for Mogilny.

dr

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

I would take Weight over Yashin!!!!!

yup .. as would about 99% of informed hockey observers. in fact, id be surprised if there is anyone who would choose Yashin over Weight.

DR

 

[Cawz]

How come OTT managed to land Spezza AND Chara, but EDM barely got a jock strap (or so EDM fans say). ?

So while OTT has been drafting Hossa, Havlat, Volchenkov, Alfreddson, Phillips, Fisher, Vermette and so on, EDM has drafted not even one player of this calibre.

So what happens when Hossa wants 6 mil, Alfreddson 8, Phillips asks for 5, Chara 9, Spezza 4...

Ya, Ottawa has been one of the best teams for developing their players. To pick one of the best teams as an example, then saying "why cant all the other teams do this" is settign your sights a little high.

4 years ago, I could have said "look at our top line of Guerin, Weight and Smyth, with CuJo guarding our net. We're 1st in the NW!" Thats what happens when you have good young players hitting their peak. Then a couple years later...

 

[Buffaloed]

I am curious why OTT was able to turn Yashin into gold and EDM couldnt turn Weight into anything ?

I'd imagine Weight being older and a pending UFA had a lot to do with the return.

Anyone remember who the Oilers picked with the two 2nd rounders they got from the Sabres for Hecht? Maybe they got decent value from that, although I think they're going to wish they had kept Hecht.

 

[mudcrutch79]

Anyone remember who the Oilers picked with the two 2nd rounders they got from the Sabres for Hecht? Maybe they got decent value from that, although I think they're going to wish they had kept Hecht.

Deslauriers and Stoll. I'd do that deal again, based on how things have gone thus far.

 

[victor]

While I tend not to swing at pitches in the dirt...

Here goes.

I am curious why OTT was able to turn Yashin into gold and EDM couldnt turn Weight into anything ?

Different players, different situations.

Does the fact that EDM has not only drafted poorly, but also traded poorly not have any bearing on their ability to compete on the ice ?

Third ranked team on a certain site, seems to be improving since getting a new GM. Hmmmm.

Its not like OTT didnt have similar pressures when dealing Yashin, if not more. Its not like just about every team in the league wouldnt prefer Weight over Yashin and its also not like one of them was going to be signed for any cheap contract.

Ottawa was forced into declaring bankrutpcy. Edmonton wasn't.

How come OTT managed to land Spezza AND Chara, but EDM barely got a jock strap (or so EDM fans say). ?

Which fans?

So while OTT has been drafting Hossa, Havlat, Volchenkov, Alfreddson, Phillips, Fisher, Vermette and so on, EDM has drafted not even one player of this calibre.

Hmmm, with players like schremp, stoll, torres, lynch, woywitka, JDD, DD, et. al, the Oilers have restocked an empty system.

Is it no wonder why EDM is barely a playoff contender ? Ok, I get it, EDM has some challenges in the market. fine and i support the efforts being made by the NHLPA to address those problems, however to suggest the league MUST lock down the NHL to save a team like EDM is folly. really, can EDM not compete in the NHL if there are changes to arbitration, rookie contracts, luxury taxes (which they will be recieving) and the other suggestions ?

Perhaps Edmonton should declare bankruptcy a few times. Any league where 10% of the teams are under chapter 11 has to be a good league.

is this not enough ? what else do the fans of the other markets have to endure so that EDM can compete ?

DR

What exactly so you have against Edmonton, that you do not have against Calgary, Phoenix, Carolina, Tampa, et. al?

 

[gr8haluschak]

I'd imagine Weight being older and a pending UFA had a lot to do with the return.

Anyone remember who the Oilers picked with the two 2nd rounders they got from the Sabres for Hecht? Maybe they got decent value from that, although I think they're going to wish they had kept Hecht.

No we would not have rather kept Hecht since those two picks turned out to be Stoll and JDD

 

[Cawz]

I'd imagine Weight being older and a pending UFA had a lot to do with the return.

Anyone remember who the Oilers picked with the two 2nd rounders they got from the Sabres for Hecht? Maybe they got decent value from that, although I think they're going to wish they had kept Hecht.

I also believe Weight said he would only sign a contract with certain teams (STL and DET?). Anyone feel free to confirm or correct.

Oil got Jeff Deslauriers (their highest prospect according to HF) and Jarret Stoll (potential to be a great center, very bright player). At least I think thats the story.

EDIT: Damn, I'm a slow typer. 2 people beat me to that question.

 

[EJsens1]

So what happens when Hossa wants 6 mil, Alfreddson 8, Phillips asks for 5, Chara 9, Spezza 4...

Ya, Ottawa has been one of the best teams for developing their players. To pick one of the best teams as an example, then saying "why cant all the other teams do this" is settign your sights a little high.

4 years ago, I could have said "look at our top line of Guerin, Weight and Smyth, with CuJo guarding our net. We're 1st in the NW!" Thats what happens when you have good young players hitting their peak. Then a couple years later...

Well, Ottawa will have to make some decisions where they let go of a player who they deem is too expensive and not worth the investment. The difference, IMO, compared to the Oilers is that Ottawa has done a terrific job drafting that they can slide someone else in there. Will that player be as good a replacement??? We'll have to see, but Ottawa has set-up a foundation where they know that good depth in the organization leads to success, finances aside. The Devils have been a perfect example of this. Its no fluke anymore that the Sens continually draft well. Ottawa has enough players on their current roster and within their organization where they shouldn't get screwed by economics, but obviously there are no guarentees.

 

[Reilly311]

the Jagr deal is easliy the worst.

 

[Cawz]

Well, Ottawa will have to make some decisions where they let go of a player who they deem is too expensive and not worth the investment.

Yup. Now if they were deemed too expensive because of a standard set by by teams running up a 200 million dollar debt, then you'd see a system that needs fixing.

 

[EJsens1]

Yup. Now if they were deemed too expensive because of a standard set by by teams running up a 200 million dollar debt, then you'd see a system that needs fixing.

I see what you are saying, but we've already done it with Bonk. Dealt for nothing in a salary dump. Are we worse off for it??? Debatable. Do we have guys that can help us in his position??? Yes.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

While I tend not to swing at pitches in the dirt...

Here goes.



Different players, different situations.



Third ranked team on a certain site, seems to be improving since getting a new GM. Hmmmm.



Ottawa was forced into declaring bankrutpcy. Edmonton wasn't.




Which fans?



Hmmm, with players like schremp, stoll, torres, lynch, woywitka, JDD, DD, et. al, the Oilers have restocked an empty system.



Perhaps Edmonton should declare bankruptcy a few times. Any league where 10% of the teams are under chapter 11 has to be a good league.



What exactly so you have against Edmonton, that you do not have against Calgary, Phoenix, Carolina, Tampa, et. al?

actually, i dont mind EDM to be honest. its the fans that drive me bonkers.

ok, lets say you are right and i am wrong. EDM has all these good players. how come they wont now get their 10 years out of that group that OTT is in middle of ?

i heard a good comment some where else. this lockout isnt about EDM, its about teams like CRL, PIT and NSH.

so i wont pick on them (EDM), clearly and according to you, they are restocked and ready to go. i see no reason for them to vote against the players position on the isses.

dr

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

I also believe Weight said he would only sign a contract with certain teams (STL and DET?). Anyone feel free to confirm or correct.

Oil got Jeff Deslauriers (their highest prospect according to HF) and Jarret Stoll (potential to be a great center, very bright player). At least I think thats the story.

EDIT: Damn, I'm a slow typer. 2 people beat me to that question.

well, if EDM is ok with what they got for WEight, then why the moaning ? would you rather be paying WEight 6m right now instead ? i would rather have cheap players like Stoll, Reasoner and Delauriers than even a reasonable 6m Weight.

maybe this is what i am getting at, every time you point out how hard done by EDM is, the fans say look what we have. so how can you take those same fans seriously when they complain how the system cheats them ?

dr