How the hell can you explain Wharton being around 60 when he is ranked 13th NA in CSB final rankings, it isn't as if he droped their either, he climbed all year. Maybe you should get in touch with developments. Was the best defensmen in the playoffs for Ottawa. Injuries have set him back but he is one of the better puck rushing defensmen with loads of raw offensive potential. Standing at 6`3 190 with nice speed and a great two way game is tough to come by in this draft. Most have atleast one flaw where Wharton is extremely solid. Much like Redden. If he falls to 40 I will eat my words in a second.steblick said:You think Wharton should be higher? A lot of people seem to (including me) but 60th is by no means way out of line. I like Sharkie's note about his dominating play of late- Wharton REALLY came on in the 2nd half and playoffs. Lisin in the 40's is low but I agree with many that his stock has dropped- he reminds me of Rico Fata a little. I like the fact Sharkie is taking a chance here. All NHL lists will also have surprising ratings like this.
I think your criticisms (MacIsaac) are far too shrill and they make you look unaware as to what the latest developments are. Sharkie is more up-to-date than you IMO, no matter where he gets his info from.
By the way, I don't denigrate Sharkie for using tapes as a basis for comments- I have sometimes too and although it's not as useful as seeing a player live at all, it is still SOMETHING- it's just that when you (Sharkie) say "I've SEEN THIS player" it makes it sound like you HAVEN'T seen all the others.
JasonMacIsaac said:How the hell can you explain Wharton being around 60 when he is ranked 13th NA in CSB final rankings, it isn't as if he droped their either, he climbed all year. Maybe you should get in touch with developments. Was the best defensmen in the playoffs for Ottawa. Injuries have set him back but he is one of the better puck rushing defensmen with loads of raw offensive potential. Standing at 6`3 190 with nice speed and a great two way game is tough to come by in this draft. Most have atleast one flaw where Wharton is extremely solid. Much like Redden. If he falls to 40 I will eat my words in a second.
As far as Lisin goes the guy has pure speed and nice hands. Something that won't go unnoticed even if he didn't score like he should have. If he has the skills take him, the confidence with bigger boys will come.
BTW, if you think these are the only small adjustments I would make you are wrong. There are about 10 other things I would love to cut up and will do so if you please.
I am not trying to make it so clear cut. All I am saying is there is no rankings I see around haveing Wharton around 60. I wanted an explanation why he was ranked so low behind all those other defensmen and also how Sindel is that much higher then a player like Lisin. For the record I don't like Lisin but I still have him closer to the first round.steblick said:Did you read my post? I wrote that I have Wharton higher than 60 based on his excellent late season play. I had him high before CSB's list came out- but a lot of knowledgeable people don't have him that high and chastised me for it at the time. Because some would say Sharkie has him too high at #60 I thought you might be in that boat too. These things are not nearly as obvious as you'd like to think.
Anyway, you should tone it down a bit buddy. Saying "How the hell can you say X" and "What a joke!" - as you have a history of doing- on things that are matters of degree and perspective (and Sharkie's were all reasonable) will not endear you to anyone here. Try a decaffeinated coffee and some aromatherapy.
steblick said:Did you read my post? I wrote that I have Wharton higher than 60 based on his excellent late season play. I had him high before CSB's list came out- but a lot of knowledgeable people don't have him that high and chastised me for it at the time. Because some would say Sharkie has him too high at #60 I thought you might be in that boat too. These things are not nearly as obvious as you'd like to think.
Anyway, you should tone it down a bit buddy. Saying "How the hell can you say X" and "What a joke!" - as you have a history of doing- on things that are matters of degree and perspective (and Sharkie's were all reasonable) will not endear you to anyone here. Try a decaffeinated coffee and some aromatherapy.
I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that a 16 year old can see all these prospects. For a 16 year old to have so many connections that would give him tapes is unlikely unless his father is a pro scout. My bet is that he has a McKeens subscription and mixes the rankings around. I could really care less about that. Its more Vlad that has a beef with that. If he wants to post his lists and rankings he must be able to take criticism and comments from non believers, if his rankings are similar to the NHL draft then I will shut the hell up and admit I was wrong, untill then enjoy the bashing from non believers.Captain Conservative said:Totally agree. It really makes me sick when posters are so rude without instigation, especially in the case of how Sharkie is being treated. Vlad, JasonMacIsaac, etc. have voiced these criticisms about Sharkie stealing material before, and continue to do so. Its old, and its petty. I enjoyed this list A LOT, and if they have a problem with the list, they should come up with a list of their own, and we could compare the two.
Captain Conservative said:Totally agree. It really makes me sick when posters are so rude without instigation, especially in the case of how Sharkie is being treated.
Captain Conservative said:Vlad, JasonMacIsaac, etc. have voiced these criticisms about Sharkie stealing material before, and continue to do so. Its old, and its petty.
Captain Conservative said:I enjoyed this list A LOT, and if they have a problem with the list, they should come up with a list of their own, and we could compare the two.
Stevex said:If it carries on then HF will degenerate into SLAM. I dont doubt people are now scared to post their rankings or opinions because of the crap they see. Its a real shame.
JasonMacIsaac said:if his rankings are similar to the NHL draft then I will shut the hell up and admit I was wrong, untill then enjoy the bashing from non believers.
Vlad The Impaler said:Now, feel free to enjoy this list, where you get laghable crap such as a detailed scouting report on a defenseman who just happens to be... a forward. More power to you if you enjoy made-up stories.
steblick said:But what I don't get, Vlad, is that even if he was getting his info from other online sources (and surely much of it is) why would he write something as way-off as that?
steblick said:BTW, Vlad, you are correct about a dilution in quality here. I'll read other people's rankngs because I like the discussions it generates involving people who HAVE seen a certain player a lot. But the tone is getting rather..ahem..youngish.
Too bad Chimera is on McKeen's. Even when I didn't agree with him, he usually had something worthwhile or insightful to say. And I don't see Moosefan posting often anymore. Too bad.
steblick said:Also Vlad- rather than having you looking out for the weaknesses in others' posts, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the players you know well, as you seem to be a pretty astute hockey guy.
Vlad The Impaler said:The big problem I have with it is that it discourages low-key folks with less flashier but more reliable info from even bothering and posting. It hurts the credibility of the website immensely. Also, good luck getting guys like McKenzie to post here. He has tried, and I'm sure he's figured out anything substantial he might have to say is lost in a myriad of threads by folks who need to share their irrelevant, idiotic "opinions" (You know, "opinion"... meaning "I can say whatever I want and you can't complain because that's my opinion").
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A lot great guys are gone or awfully silent. Many of the more motivated start their thing "on the side" or join other ventures. I suspect you may do too eventually.
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Next year, I want to keep a much closer eye on things as well as be more active networking with folks I know I can trust.
JasonMacIsaac said:Wharton 60th......lol Joke indeed.
Way too many things wrong here. It looks like you are trying to make controversy on these picks because there is noway the draft will go this way. Lisin in the 40's?
Leafaholix said:CSB...
Mid-term: 7th.
Final: 7th.
Montoya, Peters, Shantz, Dubnyk, and Lacosta have been ranked ahead of him on both lists.
I'll take CSB over McKeen's anyday... even though it's a total crapshoot.
Flames Draft Watcher said:Have you looked at CSS's track record over the past 5 years? It's far from pretty.
I'm not sure you should be discounting Schneider unless you've seen him play a fair amount. You don't seem to be qualified to be questioning some of the things you're questioning.
Rabid Ranger said:99% of us aren't qualified to be questioning anything. That's an exaggeration of course, but you get my point. I think we can all tell who is a legitimate scout or has legitimate access to actual scouting reports. Those individuals are far and few between. Is X-Sharkie one of them? No, but neither is Jason MacIssac. Therein lies the rub.
Flames Draft Watcher said:I just think Leafaholix is making some pretty strong statements and bashing of others opinion without much to back him up. Seems to think CSS is the be all and end all and that Schneider can't go in the 1st because he's rated 7th by CSS.
That of course is BS. Schneider could go anywhere and the failure to recognize that he could go in the first is very shortsighted of him.
To have him ahead of Dubnyk and Shantz just because he had a very good U-18 tournament is shortsighted. Especially since he's playing HS hockey when Dubnyk and Shantz are playing at the highest level of junior hockey in North America.Flames Draft Watcher said:I just think Leafaholix is making some pretty strong statements and bashing of others opinion without much to back him up. Seems to think CSS is the be all and end all and that Schneider can't go in the 1st because he's rated 7th by CSS.
That of course is BS. Schneider could go anywhere and the failure to recognize that he could go in the first is very shortsighted of him.